Zhirinovsky's Russian Empire

I'm guessing that Pamyat and its two successors would actually despise Zhirinovsky because of his dubious background. I can imagine a similar reaction to the Prussiagate scandal, with Zavidiya giving Zhirinovsky a screaming, but this time it was for the controversial fascist salute.
 
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Incognito

Banned
I have serious doubts about facist salute. Keep in mind that two generation of Russians were raised on legend of Soviet victory in WWII. "The Great Patriotic War" play important role in Russian national mythology and for ordinary Russian (not mentioned military) facist salute will be associated only with "German Facists who invaded out motherland". Z man can not ignote this.

ITTL LDP will certainly use victory in WWII for propaganda reasons, can you imagine Victory Day parade on 9th may in Red Square with Russian Troops making facist salute? Did anyone in Russia exept weird neo-nazis will find facist salute normal? Not mentioned about complet PR disaster.




Funny thing is if Zhirinovsky is able to hold power and win democratic elections, it means he succesfully get support of "ordinary citizen" playing patriotic and atiwestern card (WWII victory etc.). So neo-nazis will be margin and making facist salute on his rallies only can make things worse. Being nationalist is not equal with being facist. Not mentioned that after revelation about Zhiri father most neo-nazis most likely will despise him.
Thank you, that was the point I was trying to make.
 
I have serious doubts about facist salute. Keep in mind that two generation of Russians were raised on legend of Soviet victory in WWII. "The Great Patriotic War" play important role in Russian national mythology and for ordinary Russian (not mentioned military) facist salute will be associated only with "German Facists who invaded out motherland" . Z man can not ignote this.

ITTL LDP will certainly use victory in WWII for propaganda reasons, can you imagine Victory Day parade on 9th may in Red Square with Russian Troops making facist salute? Did anyone in Russia exept weird neo-nazis will find facist salute normal? Not mentioned about complet PR disaster.




Funny thing is if Zhirinovsky is able to hold power and win democratic elections, it means he succesfully get support of "ordinary citizen" playing patriotic and atiwestern card (WWII victory etc.). So neo-nazis will be margin and making facist salute on his rallies only can make things worse. Being nationalist is not equal with being facist. Not mentioned that after revelation about Zhiri father most neo-nazis most likely will despise him.

One other thing that bugs me about your Nazi salutes... is how frequent they are. First you have them being used by some douchbags on the streets... then you mention them being used on national television by Zhirinovsky's campaign staff... now you have the military use them? That seems like saying if Tea Party gets into power, they would encourage widespread use of KKK attire. Sure, the party may have racists some of whom sympathies with Hitler, but just because you’re a bigot doesn't mean you automatically like Hitler. Especially in Russia where there are still plenty of people who either lived through WW2 themselves or who's mothers and fathers lived through it. Given that the LDP has a wide & varied support base that’s not limited to neo-nazis, I doubt they would want to alienate most of ther base by appealing to a fringe that admires Hitler.

Assuming these are not butterflied away...


The more I think about it the more I see the problem with these fascist salutes. I think you are both right and I will take steps to address that in coming posts.

Thank you for the feedback guys! Having a fresh pair of eyes on potential problems has proved beneficial over the course of this TL and I appreciate you pointing this out so that I can work to correct it. ;)
 
I have serious doubts about facist salute. Keep in mind that two generation of Russians were raised on legend of Soviet victory in WWII. "The Great Patriotic War" play important role in Russian national mythology and for ordinary Russian (not mentioned military) facist salute will be associated only with "German Facists who invaded out motherland" . Z man can not ignote this.

I got a feeling this "fascist salute" is meant to be a Russian variant. Something that looks like these (ignore the Japanese flags in that second one)

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and not like this
8403684005_cb6746bc56.jpg


The ordinary Russian is likely thinking themselves nationalistic or patriotic rather than fascist, but the narration is just calling the salute, and Zhirinovsky for that matter, fascist as a matter of fact. (Correct me if im wrong Pellegrino Shots)
 

Incognito

Banned
I got a feeling this "fascist salute" is meant to be a Russian variant. Something that looks like these (ignore the Japanese flags in that second one)

The ordinary Russian is likely thinking themselves nationalistic or patriotic rather than fascist, but the narration is just calling the salute, and Zhirinovsky for that matter, fascist as a matter of fact. (Correct me if im wrong Pellegrino Shots)
Fist pump =/= fascist salute. If its called fascist salute, I would assume that that's what it is.
 
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Fist pump =/= fascist salute. If its called fascist salute, I would assume that that's what it is.

Well if its the classic sieg heil we're talking about then I see the problem. However I dont think its all that implausible for the *Russians to come up with their own salute that is distinct enough from nazi's to prevent the ruffling of any feathers.
 
PART FIFTY ONE: BIZARRO WORLD'S TIANANMEN SQUARE
PART FIFTY ONE: BIZARRO WORLD'S TIANANMEN SQUARE




Back in the USSR! UIS President Lukyanov declares restored Soviet Union as Russian President joins forces with opposition

January 2nd, 1994
By Vincent J. Shanks,
Chicago Tribune.


lukyanov-1_zps5cb0dadd.jpg


MOSCOW — As lawmakers stood and cheered at the Grand Kremlin Palace, UIS President Anatoly Lukyanov proclaimed the “the restoration of the Soviet Union,” signaling a possible end to the brief, but tumultuous history of capitalism in Russia.

“The failed experiment of capitalism is hereby over” he said to thunderous applause, “all it has brought us is fascism, war, and financial ruin.”

The Soviet President followed it by issue nearly a dozen executive orders, which were quickly approved by the Supreme Soviet. The Supreme Soviet voted unanimously to pardon the plotters of the failed 1991 coup, as well as to restore the hammer and sickle as the nation’s flag. Perhaps most controversial, however, was Lukyanov’s proclamation that the main opposition party, the Party for a Free and Democratic Russia, would hereby be outlawed. The Party for a Free and Democratic Russia won the Russian legislative election in September, capturing a majority in the Russian Parliament, and nearly captured the Russian Presidency. The move is seen as a clear attempt to destroy the most powerful reformist movement in Russia. However, there remain fears that the country may be inching closer to civil war as Russian President Vladimir Zhirinovsky held a press conference during the session of the Supreme Soviet, promising a “coalition government with the democratically elected Duma” and calling on his supporters in the Liberal Democratic Party to “reject communism and stand with your fellow Russian.”


Zhirinovsky’s Liberal Democratic Party was trounced in the legislative elections, and saw most of its members abandon the party shortly thereafter to rejoin the resurgent Communist Party. However, it is still one of the most powerful factions in the country, and some feel that the loss of the communist wing and the partnership with the reformists may in fact rejuvenate the party.

“It really was a case of trimming the fat,” commented a British diplomat familiar with the situation, “the Liberal Democrats are a much smaller party, but by siding with the reformists, who already showed they are a force to be reckoned with in the last election, they may be able to reverse their fortunes and broaden their appeal, assuming that they too are not outlawed.”

Although the Soviet President has not yet directly challenged his Russian counterpart, many in Moscow believe that by siding with the reformists, the Liberal Democrats may soon find themselves in the crosshairs of the resurgent Communist Party.

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Cover of Newsweek (December 30, 1993)


“My Russia- An Autobiography by former Russian Prime Minister Gennady Burbulis”



Published by Interbook, © 1998


CHAPTER FIFTY EIGHT


Looking outside the window I watched as the column of tanks drove by, knowing that in a few minutes the country would be changed forever. Deep down I knew there was no other way; we couldn’t let Lukyanov take over the country. But it was still not a moment to celebrate. We had no idea what would happen. Would the communists be crushed? Would they fight back? Would this lead to a civil war that would not only destroy the UIS, but perhaps Russia itself?

“Gennady,” Zhirinovsky said as he walked into the room, “you should be pleased. After all, we are striking a blow for democracy. Tomorrow there will be a democratic Russia and we will finally be rid of the communists.”

“And then what?” I whispered under my breath. Zhirinovsky was going to emerge even stronger because of this. And even his Liberal Democrats were gaining traction. Thanks to Lukyanov they were the only pro-capitalist party that was not outlawed. This was going to be another political boon for him; he was going to emerge as the champion of democracy. Irony, it turns out, has a sense of humor.

“Mr. President,” I said softly, “how do you know the troops will follow your orders? If they refuse then you realize that it will almost certainly mean civil war?”

Zhirinovsky chuckled as he poured himself a drink. He was supremely confident. How could anyone disagree with him?

“Don’t worry Gennady,” he said as he walked back to the window, “I have the utmost faith in General Tikhomirov and his men. I know he will come through for Mother Russia. There will be a war, make no mistake. But it will be over before the morning.”

I said nothing as I stared out the window.

Seconds later a loud explosion ended any doubt I had. It was now official: the Russian military had just declared war on the Soviet Union. And irony was not done playing jokes on the country just yet. The communists were about to see what it was like when the boot was on the other foot; what it was like when they were the ones on the other side of the rifle.


Communism’s last stand: Moscow during the 1993-1994 Constitutional Crisis

By John Makela, NBC News correspondent

January 5, 2010


RUS1993_zpsc7f83a5d.jpg

Troops loyal to Russian President Vladimir Zhirinovsky en route to the occupied Duma (January 5th, 1994)

As the tanks slowly rumbled down central Moscow towards the Russian Duma, the rowdy crowd of protesters were silent for the first time in over two weeks. Everyone there knew this was it: this was the point upon which the military would finally show its hand. Would they support UIS President Anatoly Lukyanov (who proclaimed the night before on Russian television that the USSR was back)? Or would it be Vladimir Zhirinovsky who announced at the same time on a LDP-controlled network that he was forming a coalition government with the reformists who won big in the legislative elections (while falling just short of the office of the presidency).

“John, look at the flag!” CNN’s 23-year old rookie correspondent Ed Phillips yelled at me as the tanks rumbled past us, “they are flying the Russian flag!”

The crowd saw the same thing as us and understood what it meant immediately. These troops were following the orders of the Russian President. These troops were here to break the communist siege of the Duma and destroy this newly proclaimed Soviet Union.

Suddenly the fragile coalition that had by in large kept the peace around the Duma broke down. We had noticed that for the last two weeks most of the protesters just seemed to be standing around waving flags and waiting for a sign from the military. They were still skittish after the pro-Zhirinovsky revolution of 1992 ended the UDR and sent chills down the spine of almost everyone in the world that wasn’t a Slavic neo-fascist. The only group that seemed to go out on a limb was the communists. They were openly chanting, singing old communist songs, and screaming ‘death to Gorbachev’ and ‘death to Zhirinovsky’. The sight of the Russian tricolor had electrified the reformists and the nationalists. They had protested quietly, letting the communists create much of the ruckus. Even the pro-Zhirinovsky fascists seemed subdued for much of the time…until they saw that flag. Suddenly a scream erupted from the once silent majority as they converged on the communist protesters, who for the first time recognized that they were outnumbered and badly, badly outgunned.

The tanks pulled up in front of the Duma as dozens of communist protesters pleaded with them to stop. ‘This is your country!’ one young boy yelled as he stood in front of the lead tank in the convoy, ‘these are your countrymen! You can’t do this, listen to your conscience!

Ed Phillips would go on to describe it as a scene from Bizarro World’s Tiananmen Square: communist protesters begging their democratic government not to kill them and rather to follow their conscience. I wondered if a man would come and rescue the boy like we saw in Tiananmen, but the single crack of a rifle shot and the sight of the boy falling to the ground dead made me realize that the military had no intention of showing any mercy. The communist protesters would be mowed down in shocking numbers while those who tried to flee faced similar brutality from the Zhirinovsky supporters and pro-democracy protesters who had, up to that point, formed a perimeter around the Duma and the communists.

The tear gas that the soldiers fired into the Duma probably saved more lives than anything. The wind was blowing south that day, and it caught much of the tear gas, dispersing the crowd of thugs and giving some of the communist protesters an exit route. Ed Phillips and I were able to stand our ground; we were just to the east of the plume of tear gas that had dispersed some of the protesters. But what we saw next shocked us. As those rebellious lawmakers stumbled out of the Duma, weakened by the gas, the soldiers simply shot them dead. No attempts to capture them, no attempts to detain them. They just stood their and shot them one at a time. Ed Phillips turned to me with a look of disgust.

“Some reformers,” he said angrily, “I don’t see how these people can call themselves democrats! This is an execution!”

I looked over my shoulder at the crowds behind us. With each shot those that remained would cheer in approval.

“Ed,” I replied, “this is getting out of hand! We need to pull back!”

A young boy in a Mikhail Arutyunov t-shirt suddenly ran up to us and tacked Ed Phillips. Ten minutes ago I would have called this boy the best hope for Russia. Young, idealistic, and determined to see democracy take hold. And ten minutes ago we would have been the best hope for him and his supporters. American journalists who were documenting this cheap power grab by the communists. But in the course of a few minutes our roles changed. We were now witnesses to a crime against humanity, and he needed to stop us so that they could finish the job. The boy hit Ed in the face before ripping his camera from his hands. He then smashed it against the pavement and tore the film out as he stood up.

“Hey!” Ed shouted as the boy slowly walked away, “you son of a bitch! You call this democracy!”

I don’t know if the boy understood English or not. He just shrugged his shoulders as he walked away from us. At that moment the truth was not his ally, and that was what we represented.

“Ed,” I said as I helped him to his feet, “let’s get out of here. It is getting out of hand.”

Ed Phillips angrily wiped the blood from his nose as he looked down at the shattered Nikon on the ground.

“Shit,” he mumbled, “that was my Pulitzer.”

We slowly walked away, cringing every time a shot was fired and the crowd cheered. Ed Phillips looked back one last time as we reached the crowd, now oblivious to us since we no longer carried a camera. A single shot rung out as the crowd around us cheered its approval again.

“Shit man,” he said as he shook his head, “are there no heroes left in this fucking country?”



“Former Communist recalls the brutal crackdown during Constitutional Crisis of 1994”


Der Spiegel


December 12, 2002


Interviewer’s notes: Der Spiegel interview with Yuri Chudinov, former communist student leader during the Constitutional Crisis of 1993-4

DS: You were present during the infamous crackdown on communist protesters outside the Duma on January 5th, correct?

Chudinov: Yes. And it was more than a crackdown. It was an execution. Even the American journalists present called it as much.

DS: It was estimated that nearly 400 protesters were killed that day, most of them supporters of the Communist Party.

Chudinov: It was much more that that. There were at least a thousand…probably closer to fifteen hundred.

DS: The official government number is 383-

Chudinov: And who the fuck runs the government in Moscow?! Vladimir Zhirinovsky! Who do you trust more! An eyewitness at the scene or Vladimir fucking Zhirinovsky?!


DS: Uh, let’s move on. Why were the casualties so high?

Chudinov: Because they wanted to get rid of us for good. To kill us off so that we would never threaten the capitalist again! Look at Gennady Zyuganov! He runs for president as a so called communist but claims to be a Christian! And he says he will work within the capitalistic system to reform it! What kind of fucking communist works within the capitalistic system!

DS: Daniel Ortega?

Chudinov: Is that all you can dig up? Daniel fucking Ortega! Seriously?

DS: Let’s move on. Did the military troops give you any opportunity to surrender or disperse?

Chudinov: No! They pulled up and at first we were excited! We figured they came to support us: to support the Soviet Union! We thought ‘this is it! We are back! The USSR is back!’ Then we saw they were flying the Russian flag.

DS: Is that when you knew you were in trouble?

Chudinov: It should have been, but we still refused to believe. All week we were protesting loudly, singing and loudly proclaiming our loyalty to the Soviet Union. Even Zhirinovsky’s scum had been cowed by our show of strength. They just stood there waving their flags and saying nothing. When we taunted them and told them that we would send them to Siberia in a few weeks they would just drop their heads and mope around, like they were scared to tell us off. We figured if this was the best the opposition could muster then no one would dare challenge us.

DS: When did you know you were the targets?

Chudinov: We made room for the tanks to reach the Duma; we cleared a path for them. As soon as the lead tank opened up one of our leaders, Andrey Yezhov, approached the Major who appeared to be in charge and extended his hand to him. He gave him his hand in friendship! He welcomed him! But the Major hit him in the face with his rifle butt and then turned to his troops and told them to ‘disperse this crowd!’

DS: What happened next?

Chudinov: They started shooting into the crowd! I hit the ground as I saw my comrades’ fall around me. At that point I looked up to see the major pulling out his revolver. He shot Comrade Yezhov in the back of the head as he laid there unconscious. Yezhov was harmless; he was knocked out cold! At that point I realized it was going to be a bloodbath, that we were all dead.

DS: What about the nationalists? What did the pro-Zhirinovsky supporters do at this point?

Chudinov: We made one mistake during the protest. We converged around the Duma itself. Comrade Yezhov and I wanted it to look even larger for the foreign press so we ordered our comrades to cram together, as close to the Duma as possible, and completely surround it. It looked great on the television; all you could see around the Duma were red flags! We even beat the Yeltsinites and fascists who tried to come close to the Duma itself. Whenever a Yeltsinite or a fascist tried to come near the Duma to wave their flag we would throw rocks at them and chase them off! We controlled everything around the Duma, but we didn’t notice that in the process we were allowing ourselves to be surrounded by the other protesters. When the shooting started we were trapped, and the fascists began to attack us.

DS: Did they throw rocks as well?

Chudinov: No! They had guns! We had guns too, but we were told from the highest sources not to bring them. Nobody apparently told the fascists though.

DS: How did you escape?

Chudinov: I was wearing a red shirt with Lenin on it, but as I lay on the ground it became soaked with blood. I decided just to wait there until the soldiers had left, but then the tear gas hit me and I couldn’t help but cough. I knew I couldn’t play dead anymore so I decided to jump up and run as fast as I could and hope that I would make it. As soon as I got up I expected to hear a shot and to feel a bullet rip through me, but to my surprise the fascists and even the soldiers were struggling because of the tear gas. The fascists were fleeing and the soldiers who fired it were coughing and trying to put gas masks on. I realized nobody was paying attention and I started running. Once it became clear that nothing was happening to me hundreds of others who had been lying on the ground also jumped up and began running. We all ran as fast as we could.

DS: Did you go home?

Chudinov: I did. I just wanted to grab a suitcase and a change of cloths. I knew things would never be the same for us so I planned on fleeing to the Slovakian embassy or perhaps to Belarus. I knew the communists’ would not be persecuted in Belarus. But they were waiting for me at my house. I heard over the next several weeks that the KGB actually began rounding up every communist they could find, and that they killed hundreds. By the time the purge was over the remaining Communist Party looked nothing like the Communist Party of old. They would do whatever the Liberal Democrats told them to do.

DS: How many were killed during this purge?

Chudinov: I am not sure. Many thousands were sent to the gulags though, including me. Zhirinovsky probably would have been perfectly happy killing us all. But we still had one thing going for us. We spoke Russian. So instead he sent us to the ‘Island’.

DS: The Island?

Chudinov: Yes, we sarcastically called it Zhirinovsky’s Siberian Island Paradise.

DS: You mean-

Chudinov: Yes. Kunashir. We were all sent to the Kuril Islands.



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Russian troops tear up a Soviet flag (January 5, 1994) (AP)
 
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You spent clothes with close. Love the update, is the Kurils going to be a work complex?

Also, what about the inevitable trials? The Moscow Trials of the 90s?
 
You spent clothes with close. Love the update, is the Kurils going to be a work complex?

Also, what about the inevitable trials? The Moscow Trials of the 90s?

Good eye! Thanks!

And as for the Kuril's, well, we will visit it soon. Basically capitalist enemies of the state are sent to Kazakhstan and Communists’ are sent to the Kurils. But look for it to be less of a work complex and more of a reservation. Zhirinovsky doesn't care what they do there. He isn't interested in work, or reeducation, or even escape (look for a large Russian refugee population in Hokkaido). He doesn't even care if they are still communist. The only thing he cares about is that they speak Russian and make Japanese claims on the Kurils more tenuous. If the islands are overcrowded and full of Russians they stop being sparsely populated islands in a disputed area and become major population centers with a huge Russian population.

And don't worry, the trials of the coup plotters (and others) will be coming up soon as well!
 
PART FIFTY ONE: BIZZARO WORLD'S TIANANMEN SQUARE

Wow, just... wow. Well that certainly adds a hell of a lot more weight to the radical Left's historical narrative that wherever a revolution failed, Fascism filled the vacuum. Germany and Italy post-WWI, Spain 1936, Chile 1973 (maybe not the best example, but still), and now the Former USSR itself.

Oh, how I hope this TL gets a Turtledove.
 
This was very good and quite scary. I wonder, did the Western News get any footage of this? Maybe they had guy in the crowd with a camera just taking regular pictures? From the Der Spiegel interview it kind of sounded like the west had no real way of disputing the official number from the Russian government.
 
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