MarshalBraginsky
Banned
Why not use the tune from the OTL Belarusian national anthem as the official song for the UIS national anthem?
Zhirinovsky's Russian Empire
- Thread starter Pellegrino
- Start date
I think this would be a fair estimate, probably a little less, but nothing a few stuffed ballot boxes can't fix
I noticed that as well, they are on a fault line but it seems to be hit harder than even Japan or California (which are also on fault lines). This may account for the low population in OTL.
MarshalBraginsky
Banned
Just out of curiosity, how many non-Russians would end up being tried for war crimes and crimes against humanity in the Hague? For one thing, you've mentioned Ter-Petrosyan as one of them so far.
There is a possible knock-off effect that is unlikely to be discussed in TTL. IOTL natural reserves suffered a huge setback and poaching spiraled in the first 6 or so years after the end of the USSR. For some reason Z does not strike me as a conservationist and this apparent permanent state of political and military crisis, armed militias everywhere, etc could very well mean that the poaching rise continues for well over a decade - spelling doom to many endangered mammals like the European mink, bison, saiga, and the Siberian leopard and tiger.
MarshalBraginsky
Banned
Speaking of which, can the next update be about the new May Day parade and Zhirinovsky's PR blunder?
The next update that I am working on now deals with the emergence of NAZBOL and PAMYAT (as well as the fascist salutes, and how I want to address that issue), followed by a post on Georgia and Moldova. Before long we will see the Vance-Carrington Plan (which in Part 10 we learn is the peace treaty that ends the war in Latvia). But don't worry, there will be a lot of Zhirinovsky PR blunders in coming posts.
Had not thought about that, but I think you are right. Poaching would probably be a major problem in TTL
Most likely we will see war crimes tribunals agaisnt both parties in Estonia and Latvia, Chechnya and maybe Georgia. But Estonia and Chechnya would be the big ones as they have turned into an absolute bloodbaths in TTL for both sides.
MarshalBraginsky
Banned
So would we see Estonians, Chechens and any group that fought against the Russians charged with war crimes as well? For the Russian Neo-Nazi individuals, you may want to look up a guy commonly called Tesak (aka: Maksim Martsinkevich).
MarshalBraginsky
Banned
So how is Pamyat going to deal with the fascistic UIS led by someone they would have doubts on?
One of the interesting things about Russian radical right wing movements and political parties is how little ideological cohesiveness they have with each other. Zhirinovsky’s LDPR is one of the most perplexing political parties of them all. There has been a constant accusation against the LDPR and against Zhirinovsky that his party was created by the KGB and the Communist Party. Some of that is due to the clear tendencies of the LDPR to embrace a more Stalinist platform. According to Wikipedia the Pamyat movement is an unapologetically fan of German fascism and is staunchly anti-communist (seeking to restore a social order similar to that which was found in Russia under the tsars). The LDPR, however, has a platform that calls for “for the suspension of all grant aid to foreign countries” (standard text there for any nationalist party), as well as and “the defence (sic) industry to remain under direct government control”. (Zhirinovsky Act anyone?) Most telling, the party website calls for “widespread anti-corruption measures, and wants Russian food security to be protected by export and import bans on agricultural products” as well as introducing "a state monopoly on the manufacture and sale of alcohol, tobacco and sugar."
http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/spotlight/russianelections/2012/02/201221801731930183.html
http://www.ldpr.ru/#for_media/Press_kit_LDPR
“State monopoly” sounds very similar to the same platform the Communist are pushing, which is why in TTL we saw the Communist join en masse with the LDPR when it became clear that Gorbachev was sunk. Still, in 1991-1993 these right wing parties were more unified. Limonov was part of the LDPR and the ugly split between Pamyat factions in 1985 and 1990 still had yet to establish clear battle lines. I would guess that Pamyat might have bit their tongue in 1991-1993 in TTL because they were given free reign to say and do what they wanted (Israeli embassy crisis?) but with this partnership between the LDPR and the reformist, they will be done keeping quiet about Zhirinovsky’s ethnicity. Limonov broke from the LDPR in OTL because he felt they were too main stream and moderate. This partnership in TTL with the reformist and the LDPR has the same effect on Limonov.
And as for the LDPR, although I did stick with party doctrine up to this point (no nationalization of state industry) I do also notice that Zhirinovsky is constantly contradicting himself. As a result, I don’t think this turn towards capitalism would be out of the question for him. The question is how it plays with other LDPR members. In fact, one of the people who has emerged in this TL is his VP candidate in 1991 Andrei Zavidiya (as you mentioned, he has sort of emerged as a fan favorite). He seems almost immune to Zhirinovsky’s bullying, and in fact in TTL ridicules Zhirinovsky at times (Prussiagate, etc.) The thing is that was not that far off from OTL. He is a very perplexing and mysterious character. He emerged as a millionaire businessman in the Soviet Union in the late 1980s, which on paper makes him look like the greatest capitalist of all time (to emerge as a millionaire in Soviet Russia is no small feat). He then was the financial backing for Zhirinovsky and made major inroads with the business community from 1991-1993. Businessmen wanted a strong leader who was pro-business, and Zhirinovsky and Zavidiya seemed to fit the bill. Zavidiya’s financial support for Zhirinovsky and his network of business supporters allowed him an awful lot of latitude when dealing with Zhirinovsky, and he often was very critical of Zhirinovsky in public (after a foreign tour to Germany, Bulgaria, and a few other countries Zavidiya was very angry with Zhirinovsky’s clown act and said so publically).
After the failed 1993 coup it came out that Zavidiya might not have been the uber-capitalist that he portrayed himself to be. He received a three million dollar interest free loan from the CPSU (basically a gift), which he used to form the Galand Conglomerate and Sovetskaya Rossiya, a right wing newspaper that was the mouthpiece for Zhirinovsky. After his break from Zhirinovsky he claimed that he was a Communist and that at least 10% of the LDPR were Communist. His financial backing of Zhirinovsky seemed to add proof that Zhirinovsky was a “sock puppet” of the KGB and on paper he almost appeared to be a literal KGB minder. After 1996, when he briefly flirted with politics, he sort of faded from the scene (very little is written about him in English after 1996).
As for what he was in reality, the truth is probably somewhere in between the two extremes mentioned above. He was hardly a Communist in the traditional sense, but he was not some uber-capitalist businessman or even right wing fascist. Quite frankly, he appears to be one of the hundreds of Russian millionaires who emerged thanks to money made under highly suspicious circumstances and it is very likely that his “business network” involved many in the newly emboldened Russian Mafia. He wanted a strong police state that allowed him, and his comrades, to operate free from harassment. He also supported a strong USSR, which is why in OTL and TTL he does seem to put aside his differences with Zhirinovsky at times like during the war with Azerbaijan. The question is what role does he play in this new, anti-communist LDPR? We gather that he leaves the party (or is expelled) by the time he gives him 60 Minutes interview, but little else is known about his break ITTL…yet. More information will emerge. But considering in OTL he was a media mogul (which is why ITTL I think the LDPR would have taken steps to seize the State run media immediately after the failed coup of 1991, because Zavidiya would have ensured they controlled the media) the loss of Zavidiya may badly hurt Zhirinovsky in the long run (remember, he is badly trailing in the 1996 elections).
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MarshalBraginsky
Banned
Well I kinda enjoyed this TL when Zhirinovsky makes a blunder because of how he's being scolded. Would Pamyat and its two successor groups, the Russian National Unity and the Russian National Union, actually challenge Zhirinovsky?
Even in OTL Zavidiya had some pretty interesting Zhirinosky quotes. This was a quote he gave the New York Times in 1994:
"At home, he is a normal, even tempered person," Mr. Zavidiya said, "but in political combat, he loses his orientation. He is like a mating grouse that is so engrossed in its own song that it sees and hears nothing else."
Bascially he said Zhirinovsky loves the sound of his own voice.
As for Pamyat, I think they will challenge Zhirinovsky, but I doubt they have the power or strenth of numbers to do much more than protest right now. But we will get some ideas here in the next update
whitecrow
Banned
The funny thing is that in 2006 the National Bolshevik Front broke from Limonov's National Bolshevik Party because they felt it was too main stream and moderate.
Wait, hold on a sec. Didin't you have Limonov as a leading member of the LDPR in post-Zhirinovsky Kazakhstan?
The funny thing is that in 2006 the National Bolshevik Front broke from Limonov's National Bolshevik Party because they felt it was too main stream and moderate.
Wait, hold on a sec. Didin't you have Limonov as a leading member of the LDPR in post-Zhirinovsky Kazakhstan?
Yes, he is very pro-Zhirinovsky in the Free Market Fascism update...but not as a member of the LDPR. He is still an elected representative of his National Bolshevik Party which is strongly supporting Zhirinovsky since his ousting and war crimes trial (and which wins about 2% of the vote in the election). Keep in mind, in 2003 after Zhirinovsky's ousting, Lebed takes over the LDPR and those staunch Zhirinovsky supporters now don't have a party base, so they start moving to other parties like the NBP or the newly formed "Russian People's Party" that was referred to in the Free Market Fascism update. Limonov will have serious problems with Zhirinovsky while Zhirinovsky is in power, but he becomes the martyr of the radical right after he is sent to the Hague and as a result Limonov changes his tune once he is ousted.
The funny thing is that in 2006 the National Bolshevik Front broke from Limonov's National Bolshevik Party because they felt it was too main stream and moderate.
The interesting thing is these right wing groups just keep splitting up into smaller and smaller factions in OTL, and I think we will see something similar ITTL
MarshalBraginsky
Banned
Dunno why, but I think right wing groups are prone to ideological arguments. Would this logic apply ITTL as well?