Also Texas lol
Well, I'm not sure the author has indicated that a treaty recognizing Texan independence from the Confederacy has been signed. If one *isn't*, then you'll have the Texas exiles voting for Texas rather than having elections within Texas.
And as for *things* in Texas, with the exception of El Paso (which is probably isn't in much better shape than Nashville), most of Texas hasn't seen significant warfare other than the Texas independence fight which was relatively quick. Yes, the US took Dallas, but with the expectation that they might be turning it over to the Independence groups. There may be some crispier areas along the Sequoyah and Arkansas borders though.

The question is what was being grown in the Planations of East Texas, cotton or food. But any farms around Dallas are more likely to be food. The situation for white people is definitely better in Texas than the Confederacy. But as long as Texas has any slavery at all...
Note, I could see slavery in East Texas being disrupted by desperate confederate whites fleeing Louisiana, Arkansas and maybe even farther east and willing to be work for food and undercutting the economic advantage of slavery, and with a Texas national government have zero interest in helping the slavers.
 
An additional thought. The US in the GAW was (in some ways) more like the US-Japanese conflict in WWII. The US was (relatively) attacked and to end the war without the complete defeat of its enemy would be more like a loss.

I wonder how the North American front of the GAW would be like if it was more like OTL WWI, with dominoes falling in terms of countries declaring war on each other.
In this scenario, the Uruguay situation kicks off earlier than the written TL. Uruguay declares war on Brazil, Brazil declares back on Uruguay, in some order or another the Argentines and Brazilians declare war on each other and then the Chileans on the Argentines. Things spread to North America when either the Confederates declare on the Argentines or the US on the Brazilians and things go from there (including tail-end, the Mexicans) . With things moving more slowly, the US might have had time to more reasonably evacuate DC (To Baltimore???) and perhaps defend on the Potomac. DC & Alexandria probably still get *wrecked* , but without the jump, I don't think the Confederates get to the Susquehanna.
Shorter war, not sure. The US will probably still be able to force the Ohio river better than the Brazilians can force in Mesopotamia. Do the Confederates end up any better in the final peace treaties? (Might save Texas)
 
On the subject of the "Gunbarrel Amendments":
I think it's going to be 3rd and 4th Amendments (ITTL versions of the 13th and 14th respectively)

The 3rd of course is going to have "punnishment for crimes" exception to allow prison labor, black codes, etc. The 4th however I think is either the OTL or ITTL version in the US constitution

A 5th amendment granting a right to vote for freemen is a pill too hard to swallow for Patton (Already considered illegitimate by most).

Freebirth Law is going to be after the amendements. Although which states will start the process is a another question.
 
On the subject of the "Gunbarrel Amendments":
I think it's going to be 3rd and 4th Amendments (ITTL versions of the 13th and 14th respectively)

The 3rd of course is going to have "punnishment for crimes" exception to allow prison labor, black codes, etc. The 4th however I think is either the OTL or ITTL version in the US constitution

A 5th amendment granting a right to vote for freemen is a pill too hard to swallow for Patton (Already considered illegitimate by most).

Freebirth Law is going to be after the amendements. Although which states will start the process is a another question.
It's going to be according to Mao's saying about power coming from the barrel of a gun in practice.
Where ever Freedmen militias have control, Blacks seize power at the ballot box with Whites bolting for the exits without even being driven out. Elsewhere it's Apartheid South Africa.
Thinking about it, in the long run it wouldn't surprise me if at some point the Whites and Blacks negotiated an agreement about partitioning the CSA into two countries followed by a Greco - Turkish style more or less voluntary population exchange.
 
It's going to be according to Mao's saying about power coming from the barrel of a gun in practice.
Where ever Freedmen militias have control, Blacks seize power at the ballot box with Whites bolting for the exits without even being driven out. Elsewhere it's Apartheid South Africa.
Thinking about it, in the long run it wouldn't surprise me if at some point the Whites and Blacks negotiated an agreement about partitioning the CSA into two countries followed by a Greco - Turkish style more or less voluntary population exchange.
We've gotten enough in the EU to know that the CSA holds it together, but boy is it going to be interesting times getting there.
 
We've gotten enough in the EU to know that the CSA holds it together, but boy is it going to be interesting times getting there.
Yeah - as fascinating and built-up as the war was, I think I'm far more interested in seeing how the post-war Confederacy and US develop. The CSA has so much going against it at this point and really am excited to see how it pulls itself together into a functioning state once again.

I suspect that the next few years are going to be formative for Confederates and almost seen as important, if not even more so, that the War of Secession. Certainly the country that comes out of the fires of the war, the Red Summer and Occupation is going to be a drastically different one which existed antebellum. Pre-war we had a fairly functioning oligoric Republic. Post-war, though corruption is still huge, we're going to see Populism as one of the driving forces, especially once the Bourbon Restoration comes to an end.
 
The Gentle Knight: The Life and Ideals of George W. Norris
"...of which the chief partisan was Maryland's John W. Smith, an affable septuagenarian Democrat who along with George Turner and a number of Westerners would in due time form the core of the "Grand Synod" of Senate elders who steered the body for close to a decade after the death of John Kern left the Democratic caucus without a singular force at its center and instead governed largely - and successfully - by committee. This enormous level of influence for Smith was nowhere to be seen in 1917, however. A former member of the "Committee of the District of Columbia" which made important governance decisions for the "Federal City," Smith had been a good-government reformer as Governor of Maryland credited with dramatically reforming the state for the better, and had brought that zeal to the capital's administration for the six months before its evacuation. As such, it was a matter of emotional importance to him to return Congress, the Supreme Court, and the Presidency back to D.C., going so far as to sponsor a photographic expose of its remains in The Nation out of his own pocket and mentioning the matter every time he was interviewed anywhere in Philadelphia.

The institutional forces arrayed against Smith were formidable, however. Most of Washington had been leveled in 1913 or destroyed by retreating Confederates, including the Hay-era expanded White House, the baroque Smithsonian Castle, and most importantly the United States Capitol, of which only parts of the Senate chamber remained. The Washington Monument had, miraculously, survived, standing as a solemn pillar of white in the middle of all that carnage, which many took to be an almost providential sign, but beyond that, little remained. Neighborhoods were gone, Georgetown had been the site of one of the worst slaughters of civilians of the war, and the place felt haunted and tainted in person that Baltimore or York, Pennsylvania, did not.

The arguments in favor of returning the government to Washington were strong: that a federal district was a Constitutional provision, that it was named after the first President and held symbolic importance, and that the United States would not relinquish its capital in retreat due to the Confederates when they had just won the war. Indeed, on that last matter, anticipation by President Hughes, then-Secretary of State Root and incoming Secretary of State Lodge that the government would return to Washington had been a major factor in the decision to extend Maryland's borders south to the Rappahannock in the Treaty of Mount Vernon. Smith had a compelling case to make as the debate on the matter ratcheted up in the summer of 1917, and he had formidable cross-partisan allies.

What defeated the push was that many of his allies didn't feel as strongly about it as he did, and that his chief enemies were not only extremely passionate about not returning to Washington D.C. but also three of the most powerful Liberals in Congress: Philander Knox, chairman of the Senate Budget Committee and thus an effective veto on any spending provisions out of the House of which he did not approve; Thomas Butler, the House Majority Leader who was always lurking as a threat to Mann's flimsy Speakership; and most importantly Boies Penrose, the Senate Majority Leader. All three of these men were Pennsylvanians, and Penrose in particular was the epitome of the Episcopalian Old Philadelphian aristocracy and the effective boss of the powerful Pennsylvania Liberal Party as well as the leader of the Liberal Party's ascendant conservative faction reinvigorated by the departure of Hughes and the hard shift to the right that Root's Cabinet represented, characterized in particular by Treasury Secretary Mellon, a Pittsburgh native personally close to Knox and a longtime political patron of all three of the Keystone State conservatives.

Further challenging Smith's dogged campaign was that most Liberals and Democrats from west of the Appalachians didn't particularly care where the capital was sited, and indeed Norris was at the head of his own push, alongside with Senators Hodges and Hitchcock, to move the capital to St. Louis or Chicago, an endeavor supported wholeheartedly by Illinois' influential senior Senator, Richard Yates. The "New Republic" ethos that had arisen in the wake of the war and was coined in Hughes' farewell address suggested that America could start anew in all manner of ways, that a return to Washington represented the old country of the 19th century that had not expanded coast to coast and that a capital in the heartland could better represent this new country.

The arguments in favor of this fell on deaf ears as the summer advanced. Mann, a Chicagoan, declared his support for a "permanent placement of the Federal District in the Fairmount section of Philadelphia" and that "the national capitol should shift from the banks of the Potomac to the banks of the Schuylkill." Had Mann come out in support of the Chicago move, it probably could have carried the day; as it was, he feared Butler more than the cared about his home city. Political inertia towards Philadelphia was starting to consolidate; the federal government was already there, after all, so what was the harm in keeping it there? Behind the scenes, Penrose cajoled and threatened Liberals into starting to form a phalanx around the position despite its relatively minor importance in the grand and immediate scheme; a decision didn't have to be made this soon after the war, did it?

The Federal District Relocation Act of 1917 was passed in late September, upon return from summer recess, with almost all Liberals in support and slightly more Democrats opposed than in favor. Norris, like many, voted largely out of distaste for the autocratic maneuvering by Penrose, Knox and Butler to secure their goal - Knox had gone so far as to publicly announce he would block all budget acts formulated in the House until the act was not just voted on but passed - and in later years acknowledged that on the merits, keeping the capital in Philadelphia was likely the right move. The Hearst years had after all kickstarted a dramatic rise in the growth of influence and sophistication in the federal government, and the war had supercharged that; the Democratic restoration of the 1920s brought with it a considerable compounding of this administrative, progressive revolution, and Philadelphia as a major city made considerably more sense logistically than a reconstructed capital with all the infrastructure from 1913-17 already placed there. It was also persuasive, Norris noted, that Washington had been chosen as capital in the first place only as a compromise between North and South in the early 19th century; the New Republic had in the war years taken as its ideological north star not Thomas Jefferson but rather Benjamin Franklin, and Philadelphia symbolically represented more of what was important to the post-GAW America than Washington did.

Still, the efforts of Penrose to bully his precious Act over the line was one of those subtle ironies of politics - a decision that was more or less correct, but done in such an unappealing and unscrupulous way as to damage its chief advocate. That Penrose was an Old Philadelphian baron tied deeply to the city's arch-Liberal establishment made the whole affair seem to have been done for the benefit of his machine, and the Roosevelt network of Journal papers went so far as to denounce the "corrupt bargain of 1917" and in an editorial penned by Roosevelt personally sarcastically asked how Liberal papers would have covered the Act had, say, Tammany Hall worked to bring the national capital to Manhattan. There was little doubt amongst a great many Democrats that the way the choice was handled helped cement public perceptions over the next year of the Root-era Liberals as shady, uncaring stooges of big business who cared little for the opinion of the public or even dissenting voices within their own party, and that the Federal District Relocation Act was one factor in the massive bloodshed Liberals faced at the polls in 1918.

What was done was done, however. The Federal District was heretofore defined by legislation as a long, skinny square kilometer (indeed, the "Square Kilometer" has become a metonym in Philadelphia for the federal government in general and the District specifically) running along the Schuylkill River just northwest of Center City, defined by boundaries at Girard Avenue on the north, Pennsylvania Avenue and 20th Street on the east, and Race Street on the south, with the river to the west hemming it in. An executive residence would be expanded upon at the Lemon Hill House where Hughes and now Root had resided (Hughes had taken up residence there in late 1914 after living in a rented townhome near Independence Hall previously), while a grand parkway lined with federal offices and buildings, including the Supreme Court chambers, would be extended from Logan Square at its bottom corner to Fairmount Hill, where a new capital building would be built over the next several years. Unsurprisingly, firms with connections to Penrose and Knox were chosen in late 1918, just before the midterm elections and to great controversy, to be responsible for much of this construction work.

Smith's odyssey to rebuild Washington as the national capital may have been dead, but his advocacy and the push itself endeared him to Marylanders and also many Democrats who had voted against "the corrupt bargain," and built a great deal of support for his backup plan after the old federal district was reworked into "Columbia County," Maryland - the National War Memorial, which established a section of the old National Mall and the site of the White House and Capitol Hill as a protected battlefield managed by the National Park Service, with tens of thousands of graves placed there in concentric circles around the Washington Monument, and the Smithsonian Castle rebuilt into the National Museum of the Great American War, a complex dedicated and expanded over the next decades to commemorate America's deadliest and most substantial peer conflict. The chief sponsor of the National War Memorial Act in the House? George Norris."

- The Gentle Knight: The Life and Ideals of George W. Norris
 
I can definitely see some patriotically-inclined Dixie expatriates supplying funds and resources to try and support the rebuilding of the state, though I can also see them in some cases making the situation worse by giving resources to hillboy militias or Forrest's malcontents rather than civic aid programs or the government in Charlotte. Given how much of the general public in the CSA - the ones who would actually have seen how hopeless the war was - consider Patton and his ilk defeatist traitors, wealthy donors who sat out the war seem even more inclined to back the revanchists. Though the state of ruin in their old home country seems likely to drive at least a proportion to try and make things less violent, methinks.

In terms of migration I'm not honestly sure one would see too much return from abroad to make things better, and indeed emigration seems like it would spike in this period given the rampant famine and social collapse. Hell, considering that the Belgians were getting along handsomely with Confederate slaver mercenaries in the Congo, I can see they and the French (really any colonial power in the era with vested interest in populating their possessions with settlers, though the Bloc Sud sympathizers seem most inclined to it) actively trying to invite Confederates to settle in African and Asian colonies.

Migration to the Bloc Sud countries also seems like it would spike here, or at least to Mexico and Brazil - neither was devastated by the war to the extent of either Chile or the CSA, Mexico has a pretty good economy, and for the ideologically fanatic Brazil still allows slavery. With the case of the latter, a parahistorical occurrence of the Confederados could well be in the cards.


Good heavens, I'd forgotten about one. I was just about to make a joke about frying some Kentuckians but thought it would be gauche 😅
Nothing is ever too gauche for Cinco de Mayo.

And, yes, I suspect that Mexico and Brazil (and Canada) are all more attractive expatriation locales for White Confederates than the culturally similar United States would be. Confederate mercenaries will likely be in high demand, too.
I hope we get an update on this!
Oh we will!
I know that the likelihood of MLK Jr existing in this reality in a recognizable form would be considered a bit ASBish the thought of him as the spiritual successor to John Brown leading the most important African-American political entity (whichever form that is going to be) like some kinda Che Guevara/Malcolm X if forever mad sorta figure. The dichotomy of his nonviolence of OTL compared to the sadly forced-into-militancy Civil Rights groups would be a welcome 'Rule of Cool' inclusion to the story (in my inane opinion).
"MLK-as-Mandela" was rightfully pointed out to me as a bit cliche/obvious, my thinking on the King family was as a sort of FCK political dynasty veering into bossism. Would be a very different take on the man, that's for sure.
Story Potential. Perharps an Asassination attempt on Root or a successful one on a cabinet member?
Possibly. There's some stuff I have planned in this general direction if not quite this far.
Jesus Christ

Anyway, on the subject of Confederate Freemen. There is no centralized figure representing the black paras, any formal compromise with them is unlikely and will have to be crushed by force.
There will be eventually in the long run, but right no, no, there isn't. Just chaos and factions all around.
Something of an equivalent of the 1876 election, then?


Ah, but where shall Senator Kentucky Fried My Lai be a senator from, and which party? A quick hop to Wikipedia implies possibly Indiana as an option, or Utah because why not, but I'm not sure which party... both states lean Democratic IIRC, but I'm not seeing anything on the Wiki about his politics, so who knows.

If he weren't described as a senator already I'd even half-jokingly suggest sending him to Mississauga to engage in Orange Crush Canada's political scene.
Not quite that bad, but the general thrust of the debate will be similar. Think more of a OTL 2008 election, only where McCain was more or less somewhat onboard with pulling out of Iraq but the electorate's reaction was basically "uh huh sure John." The economic crisis of the late 1910s actually make that a pretty sound comparison...

"Kentucky Fried My Lai" OMG that is great haha. And Indiana is correct, that's the long-term plan.
No one's making the "How are we to enforce the terms of the Peace Treaty, in particular abolition, without making sure to keep our boots on their necks?"-argument?
The CSA having Slavery is *much* more difficult if the entire US armaments from the war end up in Negro hands. (and keep supplying them Ammunition)
This second answer, and also the US could always just withdraw to the ports to control Confederate commerce (as accounted for in the treaties) while abandoning the interior.
There's an election due in November of 1917 in Dixie. If you thought 1915's election of Vardaman and friends was corrupt and illegitimate just wait til you see what happens in 1917!

I think Dixie will at least go through the pretense of an election rather than outright abolish it. Of course, any results outside of areas of outright Bourbon control (so basically NC and parts of VA and SC) will be ignored, which explains how the Bourbons keep power until 1933 - easy to keep power when you ignore the votes of anyone who disagrees.
God I need to work out how the hell that's going to even work. Great point, I'd somehow forgotten that it was an election year down Dixie way...
There's probably some states that quite literally can't hold a democratic election right now, so they'll probably just re-appoint whoever's up if the government likes them. Like seriously, how would one hold a congressional election in, say, Tennessee right now?
Great point.
I suspect that election is going to see the type of violence which will even make Confederates blush - the paramilitary movements of Forrest Sr. are going to have nothing on this. You're probably going to see US forces called in to oversee the elections and help maintain order, which is going to do very little for perceptions of the election's legitimacy and the government it spawns.

Kind of amazing what difference a few years can make. In 1912 the Confederacy was a mostly functioning democracy, albeit on wherein the oligarchy holds a huge amount of power, and a stable(ish) society which would have been recognizable to most western viewers. And then the war came and, four years later, not only has civil government largely failed but every division in society which had been happily papered over, has come to the surface and gone rancid.
"May you live in interesting times"
Forget Tennessee, try Kentucky! At this point, the Confederacy literally has two choices. Only count the votes in the Far Eastern part of the state (the area in *everyones* definition of Appalachia) or end up with figuring out what to do when Negro electors show up with the US government taking control of the "State" elections in Kentucky. And I'm not sure the choices are going to be much better for the Confederacy through at least the arrival of President Long.

Note, I expect commercial air traffic to grow faster in the Confederacy than you might otherwise expect since then the police only have to cover the airports in question rather than the entire area along the tracks. I do truly wonder how many *decades* it will take travelling by railroad from Richmond to New Orleans/Little Rock will be as safe/comfortable as it was in 1912.

I'm still trying to come up with an OTL war post 1800 that can be compared to this in the level of destruction, a mixture of Paraguay in the War of the Triple Alliance, the OE post-WWI, Germany in WWII and a few others.
It is still possible that a war between the Ottoman Empire and Italy (with friends on both sides(?)) at the beginning of the age of Atomic Warfare could see the OE getting as curbstomped as the Confederacy, but that would take work.
By god, that's Delta Airlines' music!
Doesn't Texas have yearly elections for some inexplicable reason?

Also, while I obviously can't say for sure, I think things in Texas are somewhat more stable. Key word of course being "somewhat."
"Inexplicable" in that they just CTRL+V the old Texas Republic constitution and explicable in the sense that I thought it was hilarious
Well, I'm not sure the author has indicated that a treaty recognizing Texan independence from the Confederacy has been signed. If one *isn't*, then you'll have the Texas exiles voting for Texas rather than having elections within Texas.
And as for *things* in Texas, with the exception of El Paso (which is probably isn't in much better shape than Nashville), most of Texas hasn't seen significant warfare other than the Texas independence fight which was relatively quick. Yes, the US took Dallas, but with the expectation that they might be turning it over to the Independence groups. There may be some crispier areas along the Sequoyah and Arkansas borders though.

The question is what was being grown in the Planations of East Texas, cotton or food. But any farms around Dallas are more likely to be food. The situation for white people is definitely better in Texas than the Confederacy. But as long as Texas has any slavery at all...
Note, I could see slavery in East Texas being disrupted by desperate confederate whites fleeing Louisiana, Arkansas and maybe even farther east and willing to be work for food and undercutting the economic advantage of slavery, and with a Texas national government have zero interest in helping the slavers.
True - you could have a "loyalist Texas" contingent in the CS Senate for years to come!
On the subject of the "Gunbarrel Amendments":
I think it's going to be 3rd and 4th Amendments (ITTL versions of the 13th and 14th respectively)

The 3rd of course is going to have "punnishment for crimes" exception to allow prison labor, black codes, etc. The 4th however I think is either the OTL or ITTL version in the US constitution

A 5th amendment granting a right to vote for freemen is a pill too hard to swallow for Patton (Already considered illegitimate by most).

Freebirth Law is going to be after the amendements. Although which states will start the process is a another question.
Broadly correct, I think.
It's going to be according to Mao's saying about power coming from the barrel of a gun in practice.
Where ever Freedmen militias have control, Blacks seize power at the ballot box with Whites bolting for the exits without even being driven out. Elsewhere it's Apartheid South Africa.
Thinking about it, in the long run it wouldn't surprise me if at some point the Whites and Blacks negotiated an agreement about partitioning the CSA into two countries followed by a Greco - Turkish style more or less voluntary population exchange.
The CSA won't be partitioned, but population exchanges will definitely occur in some segments. So there are places where Blacks live largely in control though in acute poverty, and other places, yup, Apartheid RSA.
Yeah - as fascinating and built-up as the war was, I think I'm far more interested in seeing how the post-war Confederacy and US develop. The CSA has so much going against it at this point and really am excited to see how it pulls itself together into a functioning state once again.

I suspect that the next few years are going to be formative for Confederates and almost seen as important, if not even more so, that the War of Secession. Certainly the country that comes out of the fires of the war, the Red Summer and Occupation is going to be a drastically different one which existed antebellum. Pre-war we had a fairly functioning oligoric Republic. Post-war, though corruption is still huge, we're going to see Populism as one of the driving forces, especially once the Bourbon Restoration comes to an end.
The 1920s are going to be particularly interesting as things are nowhere near as bad as the Red Summer anarchy but still hanging by a thread, and that's when the boll weevil strikes...
 
"...of which the chief partisan was Maryland's John W. Smith, an affable septuagenarian Democrat who along with George Turner and a number of Westerners would in due time form the core of the "Grand Synod" of Senate elders who steered the body for close to a decade after the death of John Kern left the Democratic caucus without a singular force at its center and instead governed largely - and successfully - by committee. This enormous level of influence for Smith was nowhere to be seen in 1917, however. A former member of the "Committee of the District of Columbia" which made important governance decisions for the "Federal City," Smith had been a good-government reformer as Governor of Maryland credited with dramatically reforming the state for the better, and had brought that zeal to the capital's administration for the six months before its evacuation. As such, it was a matter of emotional importance to him to return Congress, the Supreme Court, and the Presidency back to D.C., going so far as to sponsor a photographic expose of its remains in The Nation out of his own pocket and mentioning the matter every time he was interviewed anywhere in Philadelphia.

The institutional forces arrayed against Smith were formidable, however. Most of Washington had been leveled in 1913 or destroyed by retreating Confederates, including the Hay-era expanded White House, the baroque Smithsonian Castle, and most importantly the United States Capitol, of which only parts of the Senate chamber remained. The Washington Monument had, miraculously, survived, standing as a solemn pillar of white in the middle of all that carnage, which many took to be an almost providential sign, but beyond that, little remained. Neighborhoods were gone, Georgetown had been the site of one of the worst slaughters of civilians of the war, and the place felt haunted and tainted in person that Baltimore or York, Pennsylvania, did not.

The arguments in favor of returning the government to Washington were strong: that a federal district was a Constitutional provision, that it was named after the first President and held symbolic importance, and that the United States would not relinquish its capital in retreat due to the Confederates when they had just won the war. Indeed, on that last matter, anticipation by President Hughes, then-Secretary of State Root and incoming Secretary of State Lodge that the government would return to Washington had been a major factor in the decision to extend Maryland's borders south to the Rappahannock in the Treaty of Mount Vernon. Smith had a compelling case to make as the debate on the matter ratcheted up in the summer of 1917, and he had formidable cross-partisan allies.

What defeated the push was that many of his allies didn't feel as strongly about it as he did, and that his chief enemies were not only extremely passionate about not returning to Washington D.C. but also three of the most powerful Liberals in Congress: Philander Knox, chairman of the Senate Budget Committee and thus an effective veto on any spending provisions out of the House of which he did not approve; Thomas Butler, the House Majority Leader who was always lurking as a threat to Mann's flimsy Speakership; and most importantly Boies Penrose, the Senate Majority Leader. All three of these men were Pennsylvanians, and Penrose in particular was the epitome of the Episcopalian Old Philadelphian aristocracy and the effective boss of the powerful Pennsylvania Liberal Party as well as the leader of the Liberal Party's ascendant conservative faction reinvigorated by the departure of Hughes and the hard shift to the right that Root's Cabinet represented, characterized in particular by Treasury Secretary Mellon, a Pittsburgh native personally close to Knox and a longtime political patron of all three of the Keystone State conservatives.

Further challenging Smith's dogged campaign was that most Liberals and Democrats from west of the Appalachians didn't particularly care where the capital was sited, and indeed Norris was at the head of his own push, alongside with Senators Hodges and Hitchcock, to move the capital to St. Louis or Chicago, an endeavor supported wholeheartedly by Illinois' influential senior Senator, Richard Yates. The "New Republic" ethos that had arisen in the wake of the war and was coined in Hughes' farewell address suggested that America could start anew in all manner of ways, that a return to Washington represented the old country of the 19th century that had not expanded coast to coast and that a capital in the heartland could better represent this new country.

The arguments in favor of this fell on deaf ears as the summer advanced. Mann, a Chicagoan, declared his support for a "permanent placement of the Federal District in the Fairmount section of Philadelphia" and that "the national capitol should shift from the banks of the Potomac to the banks of the Schuylkill." Had Mann come out in support of the Chicago move, it probably could have carried the day; as it was, he feared Butler more than the cared about his home city. Political inertia towards Philadelphia was starting to consolidate; the federal government was already there, after all, so what was the harm in keeping it there? Behind the scenes, Penrose cajoled and threatened Liberals into starting to form a phalanx around the position despite its relatively minor importance in the grand and immediate scheme; a decision didn't have to be made this soon after the war, did it?

The Federal District Relocation Act of 1917 was passed in late September, upon return from summer recess, with almost all Liberals in support and slightly more Democrats opposed than in favor. Norris, like many, voted largely out of distaste for the autocratic maneuvering by Penrose, Knox and Butler to secure their goal - Knox had gone so far as to publicly announce he would block all budget acts formulated in the House until the act was not just voted on but passed - and in later years acknowledged that on the merits, keeping the capital in Philadelphia was likely the right move. The Hearst years had after all kickstarted a dramatic rise in the growth of influence and sophistication in the federal government, and the war had supercharged that; the Democratic restoration of the 1920s brought with it a considerable compounding of this administrative, progressive revolution, and Philadelphia as a major city made considerably more sense logistically than a reconstructed capital with all the infrastructure from 1913-17 already placed there. It was also persuasive, Norris noted, that Washington had been chosen as capital in the first place only as a compromise between North and South in the early 19th century; the New Republic had in the war years taken as its ideological north star not Thomas Jefferson but rather Benjamin Franklin, and Philadelphia symbolically represented more of what was important to the post-GAW America than Washington did.

Still, the efforts of Penrose to bully his precious Act over the line was one of those subtle ironies of politics - a decision that was more or less correct, but done in such an unappealing and unscrupulous way as to damage its chief advocate. That Penrose was an Old Philadelphian baron tied deeply to the city's arch-Liberal establishment made the whole affair seem to have been done for the benefit of his machine, and the Roosevelt network of Journal papers went so far as to denounce the "corrupt bargain of 1917" and in an editorial penned by Roosevelt personally sarcastically asked how Liberal papers would have covered the Act had, say, Tammany Hall worked to bring the national capital to Manhattan. There was little doubt amongst a great many Democrats that the way the choice was handled helped cement public perceptions over the next year of the Root-era Liberals as shady, uncaring stooges of big business who cared little for the opinion of the public or even dissenting voices within their own party, and that the Federal District Relocation Act was one factor in the massive bloodshed Liberals faced at the polls in 1918.

What was done was done, however. The Federal District was heretofore defined by legislation as a long, skinny square kilometer (indeed, the "Square Kilometer" has become a metonym in Philadelphia for the federal government in general and the District specifically) running along the Schuylkill River just northwest of Center City, defined by boundaries at Girard Avenue on the north, Pennsylvania Avenue and 20th Street on the east, and Race Street on the south, with the river to the west hemming it in. An executive residence would be expanded upon at the Lemon Hill House where Hughes and now Root had resided (Hughes had taken up residence there in late 1914 after living in a rented townhome near Independence Hall previously), while a grand parkway lined with federal offices and buildings, including the Supreme Court chambers, would be extended from Logan Square at its bottom corner to Fairmount Hill, where a new capital building would be built over the next several years. Unsurprisingly, firms with connections to Penrose and Knox were chosen in late 1918, just before the midterm elections and to great controversy, to be responsible for much of this construction work.

Smith's odyssey to rebuild Washington as the national capital may have been dead, but his advocacy and the push itself endeared him to Marylanders and also many Democrats who had voted against "the corrupt bargain," and built a great deal of support for his backup plan after the old federal district was reworked into "Columbia County," Maryland - the National War Memorial, which established a section of the old National Mall and the site of the White House and Capitol Hill as a protected battlefield managed by the National Park Service, with tens of thousands of graves placed there in concentric circles around the Washington Monument, and the Smithsonian Castle rebuilt into the National Museum of the Great American War, a complex dedicated and expanded over the next decades to commemorate America's deadliest and most substantial peer conflict. The chief sponsor of the National War Memorial Act in the House? George Norris."

- The Gentle Knight: The Life and Ideals of George W. Norris
This largely addressed my concerns about the move to Phily, namely that the conversation on the thread seemed to be leaning that the move would be a thing that just happened almost. This details the move as a not entirely certain thing in universe but justifies how it happened well. I love the intrigue with the Liberals with regards to that
 
This largely addressed my concerns about the move to Phily, namely that the conversation on the thread seemed to be leaning that the move would be a thing that just happened almost. This details the move as a not entirely certain thing in universe but justifies how it happened well. I love the intrigue with the Liberals with regards to that
Thank you!

Inertia is powerful, but also not interesting storytelling. I’m glad this update worked out the way it did in terms of justifying the Philly move
 
True - you could have a "loyalist Texas" contingent in the CS Senate for years to come!
It is totally, 100% a coincidence those all have been allies of the government since forever and switched allegiances the cycle after Long took power. They are totally not being used by the majority party to make their majority bigger. That would be, like, really undemocratic. The CSA totally wouldn't do undemocratic things.
God I need to work out how the hell that's going to even work. Great point, I'd somehow forgotten that it was an election year down Dixie way...
I mean, when both the US and CSA have biennial elections, one on odd years and the other on even years, that means you have to account for yearly elections. And on top of that you have Texas, who has yearly elections on their own because who needs things like a sensible government system? Not Texas. It's all bigger down there.
Not quite that bad, but the general thrust of the debate will be similar. Think more of a OTL 2008 election, only where McCain was more or less somewhat onboard with pulling out of Iraq but the electorate's reaction was basically "uh huh sure John." The economic crisis of the late 1910s actually make that a pretty sound comparison...
Yeah, Root's ability to make such a pivot would be... limited. The only way the Liberals could convincingly tell the electorate they want to pull out of the Confederacy would be to dump Root from the ticket and run a campaign like Hayes's (which, worth noting, almost lost anyway, or did lose if you want to go by the popular vote)... but I'm guessing that seeing Root burn down is much more fun.
Roosevelt network of Journal papers
We're coming up on TR's OTL death date. However, IMO, it would be very plausible for him to live longer. In any case, I do wonder what'll happen to his newspaper empire when he does die. TR Jr. takes over?
the old federal district was reworked into "Columbia County," Maryland - the National War Memorial, which established a section of the old National Mall and the site of the White House and Capitol Hill as a protected battlefield managed by the National Park Service, with tens of thousands of graves placed there in concentric circles around the Washington Monument, and the Smithsonian Castle rebuilt into the National Museum of the Great American War, a complex dedicated and expanded over the next decades to commemorate America's deadliest and most substantial peer conflict
Hm. Does anyone live in Columbia County after the war, or is it just an unpopulated county that only includes these things? Does it only include the Maryland section of the cession or was the old Virginia retrocession added back to it, thus making it a square?
 
"...of which the chief partisan was Maryland's John W. Smith, an affable septuagenarian Democrat who along with George Turner and a number of Westerners would in due time form the core of the "Grand Synod" of Senate elders who steered the body for close to a decade after the death of John Kern left the Democratic caucus without a singular force at its center and instead governed largely - and successfully - by committee. This enormous level of influence for Smith was nowhere to be seen in 1917, however. A former member of the "Committee of the District of Columbia" which made important governance decisions for the "Federal City," Smith had been a good-government reformer as Governor of Maryland credited with dramatically reforming the state for the better, and had brought that zeal to the capital's administration for the six months before its evacuation. As such, it was a matter of emotional importance to him to return Congress, the Supreme Court, and the Presidency back to D.C., going so far as to sponsor a photographic expose of its remains in The Nation out of his own pocket and mentioning the matter every time he was interviewed anywhere in Philadelphia.

The institutional forces arrayed against Smith were formidable, however. Most of Washington had been leveled in 1913 or destroyed by retreating Confederates, including the Hay-era expanded White House, the baroque Smithsonian Castle, and most importantly the United States Capitol, of which only parts of the Senate chamber remained. The Washington Monument had, miraculously, survived, standing as a solemn pillar of white in the middle of all that carnage, which many took to be an almost providential sign, but beyond that, little remained. Neighborhoods were gone, Georgetown had been the site of one of the worst slaughters of civilians of the war, and the place felt haunted and tainted in person that Baltimore or York, Pennsylvania, did not.

The arguments in favor of returning the government to Washington were strong: that a federal district was a Constitutional provision, that it was named after the first President and held symbolic importance, and that the United States would not relinquish its capital in retreat due to the Confederates when they had just won the war. Indeed, on that last matter, anticipation by President Hughes, then-Secretary of State Root and incoming Secretary of State Lodge that the government would return to Washington had been a major factor in the decision to extend Maryland's borders south to the Rappahannock in the Treaty of Mount Vernon. Smith had a compelling case to make as the debate on the matter ratcheted up in the summer of 1917, and he had formidable cross-partisan allies.

What defeated the push was that many of his allies didn't feel as strongly about it as he did, and that his chief enemies were not only extremely passionate about not returning to Washington D.C. but also three of the most powerful Liberals in Congress: Philander Knox, chairman of the Senate Budget Committee and thus an effective veto on any spending provisions out of the House of which he did not approve; Thomas Butler, the House Majority Leader who was always lurking as a threat to Mann's flimsy Speakership; and most importantly Boies Penrose, the Senate Majority Leader. All three of these men were Pennsylvanians, and Penrose in particular was the epitome of the Episcopalian Old Philadelphian aristocracy and the effective boss of the powerful Pennsylvania Liberal Party as well as the leader of the Liberal Party's ascendant conservative faction reinvigorated by the departure of Hughes and the hard shift to the right that Root's Cabinet represented, characterized in particular by Treasury Secretary Mellon, a Pittsburgh native personally close to Knox and a longtime political patron of all three of the Keystone State conservatives.

Further challenging Smith's dogged campaign was that most Liberals and Democrats from west of the Appalachians didn't particularly care where the capital was sited, and indeed Norris was at the head of his own push, alongside with Senators Hodges and Hitchcock, to move the capital to St. Louis or Chicago, an endeavor supported wholeheartedly by Illinois' influential senior Senator, Richard Yates. The "New Republic" ethos that had arisen in the wake of the war and was coined in Hughes' farewell address suggested that America could start anew in all manner of ways, that a return to Washington represented the old country of the 19th century that had not expanded coast to coast and that a capital in the heartland could better represent this new country.

The arguments in favor of this fell on deaf ears as the summer advanced. Mann, a Chicagoan, declared his support for a "permanent placement of the Federal District in the Fairmount section of Philadelphia" and that "the national capitol should shift from the banks of the Potomac to the banks of the Schuylkill." Had Mann come out in support of the Chicago move, it probably could have carried the day; as it was, he feared Butler more than the cared about his home city. Political inertia towards Philadelphia was starting to consolidate; the federal government was already there, after all, so what was the harm in keeping it there? Behind the scenes, Penrose cajoled and threatened Liberals into starting to form a phalanx around the position despite its relatively minor importance in the grand and immediate scheme; a decision didn't have to be made this soon after the war, did it?

The Federal District Relocation Act of 1917 was passed in late September, upon return from summer recess, with almost all Liberals in support and slightly more Democrats opposed than in favor. Norris, like many, voted largely out of distaste for the autocratic maneuvering by Penrose, Knox and Butler to secure their goal - Knox had gone so far as to publicly announce he would block all budget acts formulated in the House until the act was not just voted on but passed - and in later years acknowledged that on the merits, keeping the capital in Philadelphia was likely the right move. The Hearst years had after all kickstarted a dramatic rise in the growth of influence and sophistication in the federal government, and the war had supercharged that; the Democratic restoration of the 1920s brought with it a considerable compounding of this administrative, progressive revolution, and Philadelphia as a major city made considerably more sense logistically than a reconstructed capital with all the infrastructure from 1913-17 already placed there. It was also persuasive, Norris noted, that Washington had been chosen as capital in the first place only as a compromise between North and South in the early 19th century; the New Republic had in the war years taken as its ideological north star not Thomas Jefferson but rather Benjamin Franklin, and Philadelphia symbolically represented more of what was important to the post-GAW America than Washington did.

Still, the efforts of Penrose to bully his precious Act over the line was one of those subtle ironies of politics - a decision that was more or less correct, but done in such an unappealing and unscrupulous way as to damage its chief advocate. That Penrose was an Old Philadelphian baron tied deeply to the city's arch-Liberal establishment made the whole affair seem to have been done for the benefit of his machine, and the Roosevelt network of Journal papers went so far as to denounce the "corrupt bargain of 1917" and in an editorial penned by Roosevelt personally sarcastically asked how Liberal papers would have covered the Act had, say, Tammany Hall worked to bring the national capital to Manhattan. There was little doubt amongst a great many Democrats that the way the choice was handled helped cement public perceptions over the next year of the Root-era Liberals as shady, uncaring stooges of big business who cared little for the opinion of the public or even dissenting voices within their own party, and that the Federal District Relocation Act was one factor in the massive bloodshed Liberals faced at the polls in 1918.

What was done was done, however. The Federal District was heretofore defined by legislation as a long, skinny square kilometer (indeed, the "Square Kilometer" has become a metonym in Philadelphia for the federal government in general and the District specifically) running along the Schuylkill River just northwest of Center City, defined by boundaries at Girard Avenue on the north, Pennsylvania Avenue and 20th Street on the east, and Race Street on the south, with the river to the west hemming it in. An executive residence would be expanded upon at the Lemon Hill House where Hughes and now Root had resided (Hughes had taken up residence there in late 1914 after living in a rented townhome near Independence Hall previously), while a grand parkway lined with federal offices and buildings, including the Supreme Court chambers, would be extended from Logan Square at its bottom corner to Fairmount Hill, where a new capital building would be built over the next several years. Unsurprisingly, firms with connections to Penrose and Knox were chosen in late 1918, just before the midterm elections and to great controversy, to be responsible for much of this construction work.

Smith's odyssey to rebuild Washington as the national capital may have been dead, but his advocacy and the push itself endeared him to Marylanders and also many Democrats who had voted against "the corrupt bargain," and built a great deal of support for his backup plan after the old federal district was reworked into "Columbia County," Maryland - the National War Memorial, which established a section of the old National Mall and the site of the White House and Capitol Hill as a protected battlefield managed by the National Park Service, with tens of thousands of graves placed there in concentric circles around the Washington Monument, and the Smithsonian Castle rebuilt into the National Museum of the Great American War, a complex dedicated and expanded over the next decades to commemorate America's deadliest and most substantial peer conflict. The chief sponsor of the National War Memorial Act in the House? George Norris."

- The Gentle Knight: The Life and Ideals of George W. Norris
Wait is George W. Norris our next non New York President?
 
Nothing is ever too gauche for Cinco de Mayo.

And, yes, I suspect that Mexico and Brazil (and Canada) are all more attractive expatriation locales for White Confederates than the culturally similar United States would be. Confederate mercenaries will likely be in high demand, too.
Very Interesting
Oh we will!

"MLK-as-Mandela" was rightfully pointed out to me as a bit cliche/obvious, my thinking on the King family was as a sort of FCK political dynasty veering into bossism. Would be a very different take on the man, that's for sure.

Possibly. There's some stuff I have planned in this general direction if not quite this far.

There will be eventually in the long run, but right no, no, there isn't. Just chaos and factions all around.

Not quite that bad, but the general thrust of the debate will be similar. Think more of a OTL 2008 election, only where McCain was more or less somewhat onboard with pulling out of Iraq but the electorate's reaction was basically "uh huh sure John." The economic crisis of the late 1910s actually make that a pretty sound comparison...

"Kentucky Fried My Lai" OMG that is great haha. And Indiana is correct, that's the long-term plan.


This second answer, and also the US could always just withdraw to the ports to control Confederate commerce (as accounted for in the treaties) while abandoning the interior.

God I need to work out how the hell that's going to even work. Great point, I'd somehow forgotten that it was an election year down Dixie way...
How about a massive government crisis where no one has a majority of evs and government deadlock?
 
Yeah, Root's ability to make such a pivot would be... limited. The only way the Liberals could convincingly tell the electorate they want to pull out of the Confederacy would be to dump Root from the ticket and run a campaign like Hayes's (which, worth noting, almost lost anyway, or did lose if you want to go by the popular vote)... but I'm guessing that seeing Root burn down is much more fun.
We've already been told that Illinois Governor Frank O. Lowden is the Lib nominee in 1920, so...
 
Sadly neither PA senator is up for re-election in 1918. Other Libs (Mann?) will have to face the music for this corrupt bargain.

I am glad the public is finally waking up to decades of Liberal corruption. Better late than never!
 
It is totally, 100% a coincidence those all have been allies of the government since forever and switched allegiances the cycle after Long took power. They are totally not being used by the majority party to make their majority bigger. That would be, like, really undemocratic. The CSA totally wouldn't do undemocratic things.

I mean, when both the US and CSA have biennial elections, one on odd years and the other on even years, that means you have to account for yearly elections. And on top of that you have Texas, who has yearly elections on their own because who needs things like a sensible government system? Not Texas. It's all bigger down there.

Yeah, Root's ability to make such a pivot would be... limited. The only way the Liberals could convincingly tell the electorate they want to pull out of the Confederacy would be to dump Root from the ticket and run a campaign like Hayes's (which, worth noting, almost lost anyway, or did lose if you want to go by the popular vote)... but I'm guessing that seeing Root burn down is much more fun.

We're coming up on TR's OTL death date. However, IMO, it would be very plausible for him to live longer. In any case, I do wonder what'll happen to his newspaper empire when he does die. TR Jr. takes over?

Hm. Does anyone live in Columbia County after the war, or is it just an unpopulated county that only includes these things? Does it only include the Maryland section of the cession or was the old Virginia retrocession added back to it, thus making it a square?
TR Jr died in the GAW

Just the Maryland section in my first thoughts, though Alexandria and Arlingon may be worthy attachments
Wait is George W. Norris our next non New York President?
No
The only question that remains, considering everything we know about the Root Admistration is whether it is worse or less than the Liberal wipeouts of 1902/1904?
I’d say broadly similar
Root only ran on the stipulation he’d bow out after a single term, too.
Sadly neither PA senator is up for re-election in 1918. Other Libs (Mann?) will have to face the music for this corrupt bargain.

I am glad the public is finally waking up to decades of Liberal corruption. Better late than never!
No, but there’s two Massachusetts seats up in 1918! 👀👀
It's almost enough to feel bad for Maryland Liberals, how much of the vote are they going get next election? 20%? 30%?
Probably 30ish I’d say
 
It's almost enough to feel bad for Maryland Liberals, how much of the vote are they going get next election? 20%? 30%?
Bigger question is how few people are going to be living in the newly annexed region of Maryland by the election. Gotta imagine any Dixiemen/women living there fled south when their army withdrew.
 
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