AHC: Building the Hong Kong Defense Force

[alphaboi867]

The Republic of Hong Kong is a member of the Commonwealth of Nations, as well as having HM King William V as head-of-state.

Marc A

Then it wouldn't be the Republic of Hong Kong. It'd be something along the lines of the Union of Hong Kong or just Hong Kong. Also Zara Phillips doesn't have a title. She's just Ms Zara Philliups (professionally) or Mrs Michael Tindall (socially). And Diana was never Lady Spencer, it was Lady Diana Spencer before she got married, the Princess of Wales after, and Diana, Princess of Wales after the divorce. If she had patronage of a military unit it's be "the Princess of Wales's ________".

...I should clarify that this is an idea-gathering thread for my story-in-progress (Nulli Secundus In Oriente, version 3.0 ). Then again, I've always wondered what would happen if the British bought New Territories outright in 1898 instead of leasing it for 99 years...

Marc A

Around the time of the Xinhai Revolution the British had the chance to trade the port city of Weihaiwei for the New Territories being ceded in perpetuity like Hong Kong Island. They didn't and ended up giving Weihaiwei back anyway in the '30s. If did act on it Hong Kong probally would've been transformed into a self-governing colony and today would be the Bermuda or Cayman Islands of the Orient.

Here's the flag of the Commonwealth of Hong Kong. Could be better made, but I have utterly no skills with photoshop.

Marc A

I think I prefer the old blue ensign.

 

[M. A. Dickens]

Not a bad thing. The Israelis sell to everybody, even when it makes somebody else mad - They sold C-130s to the apartheid state, Huey helicopters to Rhodesia, they tried to sell Phalcon radar systems to China, cruise missiles to the United States, SAMs and ballistic missile technology to India, EW technology and fighter upgrades to Turkey. They truly honestly don't care as long as the bank transfer clears.

As far as cruise missile subs go, remember that the Dolphins are German-built. A NATO-allied nation won't buy Russian subs, but what might work for this are buying GLCMs and designing a HK variant of the Scorpene, designed with a hull stretch and a larger midsection to allow the mounting of the Mark 36 VLS system, with twelve tubes to the sub, allowing them to mount Tomahawks in said tubes. Alternately, one could also develop a HK sub with the 650mm torpedo tubes and Popeye Turbo missiles from the Dolphin class.

I'm pretty sure I said something about cruise missiles somewhere back. I'll go look when I have more time.

Then it wouldn't be the Republic of Hong Kong. It'd be something along the lines of the Union of Hong Kong or just Hong Kong. Also Zara Phillips doesn't have a title. She's just Ms Zara Philliups (professionally) or Mrs Michael Tindall (socially). And Diana was never Lady Spencer, it was Lady Diana Spencer before she got married, the Princess of Wales after, and Diana, Princess of Wales after the divorce. If she had patronage of a military unit it's be "the Princess of Wales's ________".

Yeah, I realized I mucked up those. It'll be the Commonwealth of Hong Kong. Also I've retconned the unit names and will post the list later.

Around the time of the Xinhai Revolution the British had the chance to trade the port city of Weihaiwei for the New Territories being ceded in perpetuity like Hong Kong Island. They didn't and ended up giving Weihaiwei back anyway in the '30s. If did act on it Hong Kong probally would've been transformed into a self-governing colony and today would be the Bermuda or Cayman Islands of the Orient.

Exactly what I'm trying to achieve in Lugardverse...

I think I prefer the old blue ensign.

One problem with the old ensign is that it symbolized the colonial days i.e. governed by a foreign power, something the newly independent HK government would not want on their flag. My design was a compromise: the Union Jack and blue background acknowledged the history of British rule, the white bauhinia represented the unique character of the city-state.

Marc A

 

[M. A. Dickens]

Latest list of HK Army's Regiments by seniority

Infantry

Royal Hong Kong Regiment (The Volunteers)
- 1st Battalion (mechanized infantry) – active
- 2nd Battalion (mechanized infantry) – active
- 3rd Battalion (mechanized infantry) – active

Queen Catherine’s Hong Kong Light Infantry
- 1st Battalion (light infantry) – active
- 2nd Battalion (light infantry) – active
- 3rd Battalion (light infantry) – active

King's Kowloon Grenadiers
- 1st Battalion (mechanized infantry) – active
- 2nd Battalion (mechanized infantry) – active
- 3rd Battalion (mechanized infantry) – reserve

Royal New Territories Borderers
- 1st Battalion (light infantry) – active
- 2nd Battalion (light infantry) – active
- 3rd Battalion (light infantry) – active

Royal Kowloon Highlanders (The Yulins)
Motto: Molon labe
- 1st Battalion (mechanized infantry) – active
- 2nd Battalion (mechanized infantry) – active
- 3rd Battalion (mechanized infantry) – reserve

Prince of Wales’ Gurkha Rifles of Hong Kong
- 1st Battalion (light infantry) – active
- 2nd Battalion (light infantry) – active
- 3rd Battalion (light infantry) – reserve

Lantau Island Light Infantry
- 1st Battalion (light infantry) – active
- 2nd Battalion (light infantry) – active
- 3rd Battalion (light infantry) – active

New Territories Rifles
- 1st Battalion (mechanized infantry) – active
- 2nd Battalion (mechanized infantry) – active
- 3rd Battalion (mechanized infantry) – reserve

Armored

Duke of Clarence’s Hong Kong Dragoons
- 1st Squadron (armored) – active
- 2nd Squadron (armored) – active
- 3rd Squadron (armored) – active
- 4th Squadron (armored reconnaissance) – active

Royal Victorian Lancers (The Princess Royal’s)
- 1st Squadron (armored) – active
- 2nd Squadron (armored) – active
- 3rd Squadron (armored) – active
- 4th Squadron (armored reconnaissance) – active

Governor General’s Horse Guards
- 1st Squadron (armored) – active
- 2nd Squadron (armored) – active
- 3rd Squadron (armored) – active
- 4th Squadron (armored reconnaissance) – active

1st Armoured Regiment of Hong Kong (Queen Mother’s)
- 1st Squadron (armored) – active
- 2nd Squadron (armored) – active
- 3rd Squadron (armored) – active
- 4th Squadron (armored reconnaissance) – active

Artillery

1st Royal Hong Kong Artillery Regiment
- A Battery (self-propelled howitzers)
- B Battery (self-propelled howitzers)
- C Battery (self-propelled howitzers)
- D Battery (self-propelled howitzers)
- E Battery (rocket artillery)

2nd Royal Hong Kong Artillery Regiment
- F Battery (towed howitzers)
- G Battery (towed howitzers)
- H Battery (towed howitzers)
- I Battery (towed howitzers)
- J Battery (rocket artillery)

3rd Royal Hong Kong Artillery Regiment
- K Battery (mobile air defense)
- L Battery (mobile air defense)
- M Battery (mobile air defense)

4th Royal Hong Kong Artillery Regiment
- N Battery (long-range missile)
- O Battery (long-range missile)
- P Battery (long-range missile)

Marc A

P.S. Will an Airborne Regiment be considered a bit over-the-top?

 

[Life In Black]

You should have some armoured reserves too.

 

[M. A. Dickens]

You should have some armoured reserves too.

I'm still trying to decide whether to have full-fledged Reserve Force regiments or simply give Main Force regiment a couple of RF battalions each.

Marc A

 

[Life In Black]

I'm still trying to decide whether to have full-fledged Reserve Force regiments or simply give Main Force regiment a couple of RF battalions each.

Marc A

Does this Hong Kong have conscription? If it does, than most of your forces are going to be reserve I would think. If not, then yeah, have the reserves attached to the main forces. You could even have some sort of merit system, where if any reserve forces want to put in extra time training or serving, they can, perhaps with some sort of pay raise for every so many extra hours are put in over their standard training allotment. Just a thought.

 

[M. A. Dickens]

Does this Hong Kong have conscription? If it does, than most of your forces are going to be reserve I would think. If not, then yeah, have the reserves attached to the main forces. You could even have some sort of merit system, where if any reserve forces want to put in extra time training or serving, they can, perhaps with some sort of pay raise for every so many extra hours are put in over their standard training allotment. Just a thought.

They do have conscription, which means I'll have to go back and think up another bunch of less-cool names for the RF regiments...

Marc A

 

[Life In Black]

They do have conscription, which means I'll have to go back and think up another bunch of less-cool names for the RF regiments...

Marc A

What about my idea for having the reserve forces be given bonuses for putting in overtime/learning new skills? I'll admit I got it from a military sci-fi book, but I'll be damned if I can remember which one.

 

[M. A. Dickens]

What about my idea for having the reserve forces be given bonuses for putting in overtime/learning new skills? I'll admit I got it from a military sci-fi book, but I'll be damned if I can remember which one.

Given ITTL all able-bodied HK citizen must serve two years in the HKDF starting from 18 to 22 [1], and must do a two-week refresher training every year, I can definitely see a bonus system in place to attract more people for the MF.

[1] How it works is you can either do your time from 18 to 20, then go to college; or you can finish college at 22, then do two years (or more); or, if you're unlucky enough to terminate tertiary education due to whatever reason, you sign up right then and there

Marc A

 

[Xavier]

Given ITTL all able-bodied HK citizen must serve two years in the HKDF starting from 18 to 22 [1], and must do a two-week refresher training every year, I can definitely see a bonus system in place to attract more people for the MF.

[1] How it works is you can either do your time from 18 to 20, then go to college; or you can finish college at 22, then do two years (or more); or, if you're unlucky enough to terminate tertiary education due to whatever reason, you sign up right then and there

Marc A

Citizens, as in boys & girls like Israel? That is one huge reserve force you're going to have.

 

[Some Bloke]

Entirely necessary considering who the neighbours are.

By the way, any updates on the Lugardverse?

 

[alphaboi867]

Citizens, as in boys & girls like Israel? That is one huge reserve force you're going to have.

That's sure what it sounds like. I'm assuming it's two years for both men & women (in Israel it's 3yrs for men, 2 yrs for women). Also motherhood would almost certainly be an automatic exemption for both national service and reserve duty (ie if a woman has a child after doing her NS she no longer has reserve duty).

 

[M. A. Dickens]

Citizens, as in boys & girls like Israel? That is one huge reserve force you're going to have.

Yes, boys and girls both. Spoiled Hong Konger children will have a rude awakening...

Entirely necessary considering who the neighbours are.

By the way, any updates on the Lugardverse?

Oh yes, you can't go up against Goliath without being David. And I've been swamped by work. Lugardverse will have to wait. Sorry.

That's sure what it sounds like. I'm assuming it's two years for both men & women (in Israel it's 3yrs for men, 2 yrs for women). Also motherhood would almost certainly be an automatic exemption for both national service and reserve duty (ie if a woman has a child after doing her NS she no longer has reserve duty).

I might have said something on National Service and recruitment policy earlier. I'll have to check.

Marc A

 

[La Rouge Beret]

What about a couple of Delta IV Soviet boomers?

 

[TheMann]

What about a couple of Delta IV Soviet boomers?

Nobody would ever sell a boomer, period.

 

[Peace_Monger]

nice lookout overall on your naming list, I'm guessing by the exact layout that's the overall combat Orbat your going for 4 mechanized and 4 light infantry brigades respectively. If that's the case then I would suggest adding more arty cause what you have isn't enough. The best way to think of this is for every three battalions of infantry you want one arty regiment (3 firing batteries plus logistical train); the norm is usual a battery (eight to twelve guns) to each battalion. You definitely want in HK case to have more artillery considering the endless masses of the Chinese will likely throw at the them .

Other than that I like the naming; btw if your doing a full conscription plan I would recommend you would pick only the best and brightest for the actual combat force, and place the rest (unfit, mental unable [pacifist and the alike], or even the slightly physical infirm) into a massive civil defence service which solely purpose is to ensure the continuation of government services during wartime and implementing the given of civil defence plans; other than that dude as always awsome outlook for your POD and HK military

 

[M. A. Dickens]

Nobody would ever sell a boomer, period.

Even if someone are to make that offer the CoHK will refuse. Their existence is a big enough excuse for PRC to attack. Having WMDs will only make things worse.

nice lookout overall on your naming list, I'm guessing by the exact layout that's the overall combat Orbat your going for 4 mechanized and 4 light infantry brigades respectively. If that's the case then I would suggest adding more arty cause what you have isn't enough. The best way to think of this is for every three battalions of infantry you want one arty regiment (3 firing batteries plus logistical train); the norm is usual a battery (eight to twelve guns) to each battalion. You definitely want in HK case to have more artillery considering the endless masses of the Chinese will likely throw at the them .

Other than that I like the naming; btw if your doing a full conscription plan I would recommend you would pick only the best and brightest for the actual combat force, and place the rest (unfit, mental unable [pacifist and the alike], or even the slightly physical infirm) into a massive civil defence service which solely purpose is to ensure the continuation of government services during wartime and implementing the given of civil defence plans; other than that dude as always awsome outlook for your POD and HK military

I haven't quite figured out how the combat formations would look, but yeah, I'll go back and add more artillery and Reserve Force regiments.

As for recruitment, expect only the best in the Defence Force - the rest will find themselves in various Disciplinary Services.

Marc A

 

[Dathi THorfinnsson]

One problem with the old ensign is that it symbolized the colonial days i.e. governed by a foreign power, something the newly independent HK government would not want on their flag. My design was a compromise: the Union Jack and blue background acknowledged the history of British rule, the white bauhinia represented the unique character of the city-state.

Marc A

???? Which is why Australia and New Zealand dumped the ensign immediately? O right, they didnt.

More to the point, neither did Fiji or several nations in the caribbean. Heck, even hawaii still has a union jack in canton!!!

 

[M. A. Dickens]

???? Which is why Australia and New Zealand dumped the ensign immediately? O right, they didnt.

More to the point, neither did Fiji or several nations in the caribbean. Heck, even hawaii still has a union jack in canton!!!

Well, to be fair, nothing is set in stone...

Marc A