The best tandem for Richard III's son is Anne of Brittany and Charles VIII's daughter.
A Richard for All Seasons - Richard III wins the Battle of Bosworth Field
- Thread starter Philippe le Bel
- Start date
@calvin1417 will be happy about the Perceys getting their dukedom early (I must admit, I never understood why they waited so long for it OTL - they were a scion of a foreign house resident in England (in France I guess they'd sorta be princes etrangers or something)).
Unless you count Charles Somerset (IOTL Earl of Worcester), but he's a bastard twice over (the bastard son of a Beaufort) and probably won't be doing much ITTL.
Yeah, I didn't thing through the implications of going down the rabbithole re: bastards and the survival of the Plantagenet make line. There's also Richard's own male bastards- John, Captain of Calais and possibly the mysterious Latin-reading bricklayer Richard Plantagenet of Eastwell.
I have never believed that Richard of Eastwell was a royal bastard or even a real person. John of Glouchester and Arthur Plantaganet will have a rather intense rivalry and there will be other prominent royal bastards in this TL.
I like the suggestion of Charles VIII of France and Anne of Brittany's daughter being the wife to prince Richard, we'll take that into consideration in our planning. Anyone who had suggestion for Anne of Eltham's potential husband?
I like the suggestion of Charles VIII of France and Anne of Brittany's daughter being the wife to prince Richard, we'll take that into consideration in our planning. Anyone who had suggestion for Anne of Eltham's potential husband?
Philippe le Bel
Banned
Thank you all for your kind words and enthusiasm 
This is true, but Anne of Brittany hasn't married yet.
Don't catch the butterflies all at once now!
This is true, but Anne of Brittany hasn't married yet.Yep, they got their dukedom for their loyalty and Percy's decisive action. But they wouldn't really be princes etrangers, I don't think. They were from France originally, true, but they came over to England in 1066 (or was it 1067?), 400 years ago! They were certainly newer to England than the Plantagenets were themselves!
True, I wasn't quite counting bastards at all. Ironic that modern England's line of kings began with a bastard, and yet not one bastard has tried to claim the throne in the almost 1000 years since the conquest.
Thank you all for your kind words and enthusiasm
Don't catch the butterflies all at once now!
Yep, they got their dukedom for their loyalty and Percy's decisive action. But they wouldn't really be princes etrangers, I don't think. They were from France originally, true, but they came over to England in 1066 (or was it 1067?), 400 years ago! They were certainly newer to England than the Plantagenets were themselves!
True, I wasn't quite counting bastards at all. Ironic that modern England's line of kings began with a bastard, and yet not one bastard has tried to claim the throne in the almost 1000 years since the conquest.
Not quite true - you are forgetting Charles II bastard, Monmouth.
I think Anne of Brittany's daughter marrying Richard III's son is a good thing, why? he is more legitimate than Arthur, the best match for him is either the daughter of Anne of Brittany or Anne of Foix-Candale.
Philippe le Bel
Banned
Well, you learn something new every day! I didn't know that. Then again, post-medieval England is not my forte at all.
I likened them to the prince étrangers in the sense of any prince in France who descended from a previously ruling house (the princes of Lorraine, the Rohans, the de la Tour d'Auvergnes, etc) were allowed the title. The Percys had the blood the house of Brabant (the same house that the rulers of Hesse descended from). The Percys themselves were female line descended from the de Percys, but male-line, from Josceline de Louvain (brother of Queen Adeliza - Henry I's second wife) after 1154. Their cousins on the continent also descended from King Stephen, though IDK if the Percys did.
V: A Snippet in the Palais
Philippe le Bel
Banned
A Richard for All Seasons
A Snippet in the Palais
Summer 1487
A Snippet in the Palais
Summer 1487
"Anne!" Charles bellowed as he strode through the wide, low passages of the Palais de la Cite. "Aaaaaanne!" Servants and more important people burst out of rooms and side passages to see what was the matter, then scurried backward to let King Charles VIII pass undisturbed. He was usually pleasant, but being a king, nobody wanted to risk his mood. "Where is my sister?" he asked loudly, towering over a tired old lawyer, too slow to scurry back.
"Ah, y-your Majesty!" he stammered in surprise. "I-I do believe that Princess Anne should be returning from Notre-Dame shortly. She has been to see Archbishop Louis." The lawyer, a longtime survivor of the struggles between French nobles and between the nobles and the crown, looked studiously at the floor.
"Thank you!" said Charles with a sincere smile, and continued with a more relaxed pace toward the royal apartments. He entered Anne's parlor, intimidated his way through a crowd of waiting officials and petitioners, and deposited himself in the most comfortable chair in Anne's study. That was, Anne's chair. At a glance, Charles was full of contradictions. A powerful, towering physique inherited from his father and maintained by games and sports, softened by a kind disposition and a pale, sickly look. He had small, purple bags under his eyes, his skin was very white from lack of sun, and he sniffled every once in awhile, nonstop.
Anne's steward rushed in after a minute and bowed hurriedly. "Your Majesty! What may I do for you?"
"Get me Anne," said Charles shortly, lifting his fine gilded felt bootlets and resting them on her desk. The steward bowed out and left almost at a run. It wasn't long before regent Anne of France came in, standing there with her mouth a hard, straight line. "You can sit down," Charles said after a minute, frowning at her silence.
Anne sat. "I taught you better than that, your Majesty. What game are you playing now? This is highly irregular."
Charles was taken aback, and promptly let his feet drop to the floor. "Sorry, needed to stretch my legs." Covering his embarrassment, he continued, "Anne, I'm almost 18 now, I need to know what's going on! I've taken a look at the books, huge amounts of gold leaving for arms and armor, leaving to pay nobles here, leaving to England? What's this all about Anne! It's my kingdom after all!"
Anne sighed and her expression softened. "Well you're not 18 yet Charles, and father decided that I'd be your regent. So that's that."
"What do you mean that's that! Don't you think I notice, don't you think I have eyes! Anne, they look at me pleasantly enough, I'm their King, but they look at you with fear! They know you rule! They don't have the same respect for me, I can't let that go on."
"Don't worry, once you're of age, that's only in a few month's time after all, every royal action will come from you, I'll see to that," Anne said dismissively. "And it will be so much easier, anyway. Half of this noble griping is the fact that I'm regent instead of one of them. Of course they'd complain, I don't plunder the coffers like they would, I don't give them much leeway in anything."
A not uncomfortable silence fell. Charles was used to this, being outmaneuvered by Anne in an argument, forced to see the eminent sense of her ideas. That was the devil of it, she was always so eminently sensible! But Charles had a brain of his own, how could he bring about what he wanted.... "Is that all, then? I've been speaking with the Archbishop about--"
Charles cut her off. "I still want to know why all that gold's being sent out...and to England of all places? Wales? Also, didn't you hear, old Duke Francis of Brittany is getting mighty cozy with Maximilian." He smirked as he delivered this jab, watching Anne's expression.
But Anne's frown deepened only a fraction, and she sighed through her nose. There was only one Maximilian he could mean, and that was Maximilian von Habsburg, King of the Romans and heir to the Holy Roman Empire. "Unexpected...unfortunate...and there's no need for you to be smirking, this means trouble."
"I know that," Charles rolled his eyes, "but it's not all bad! We talked about this before, I can marry his daughter Anne. She will be Duchess of Brittany, it will become ours."
Anne's frown deepened yet again. "That discussion was almost three years ago, my what a memory you have. No, the situation has changed. England is at peace and interested at least in events in Burgundy...not even a year ago we were forced to give them the Woodvilles and all that treasury gold. The money going to England was to fund rebellion, by the way. Well that failed." Anne gazed at Charles. "And I've heard that old Emperor Frederick finally has peace on his eastern border, which will free him up to act in Burgundy. His son Maximilian will want Anne's hand, and so will Duke Louis of Orleans and Count Charles of Angouleme. We must tread carefully, brother."
"We are France! Shouldn't we crush our rebellious nobles as soon as possible? Why wait for them and Maximilian to join forces? I'll lead my forces against them!"
Anne closed her eyes, deep in thought. "You are correct there...but to act against them without proof of rebellion or treason is to invite disaster. For now we must wait for some pretext. And...though I hate to say it...you are the King. Leading your armies will strengthen your image and affirm an end to your regency. Good that you are so tall."
Philippe le Bel
Banned
Hello all. Sorry for the long delay. Here is just a short snippet maybe foreshadowing the focus of events in the future And as the discussion a week ago shows, the hand of Anne of Brittany is hotly contested.
And as the discussion a week ago shows, the hand of Anne of Brittany is hotly contested.Oh my
Is Anne being sarcastic? Since I was under the impression - which admittedly is based on comments on various TV series' of the time that say this (but I've never read anything to the contrary) - Charles was short.
Is Anne being sarcastic? Since I was under the impression - which admittedly is based on comments on various TV series' of the time that say this (but I've never read anything to the contrary) - Charles was short.
I think that Anne meant it more like "you're so grown-up now" than referring his actual height, I have no idea of how tall or not Charles was in real life. I assumed that he was perhaps tall given that OTL he died from striking his head on the door thingy. But perhaps it was a very low door thingy?
Hence why I wondered - because in an episode of The Borgias, when one of the cardinals come to tell Jeremy Irons (Alexander VI) about the king of France's death, they pass the remark "he struck his head on a door, but it must've been a very low door". Maybe it was like the doors we had to the squash courts at school, where the door was about the average male's chest height and one had to stoop to go inside. That's all that I can think of.
But then again, Charles the Bold was also short(er) than his wife, Margaret of York - so maybe it was a Valois thing?
It might have been. In this TL Charles VIII will die a different way than OTL so his height is rather unimportant. Stay tuned for more updates!