Your favorite areas of interest in the Early Middle Ages?

[Deleted member 114175]

What regions and historical areas of interest do you like the most in the Early Middle Ages (500-1000 AD)?

What historical processes, empires, wars, social developments, economic advances, technological developments, do you think are good timeline material?

 

[ar-pharazon]

The Tang Empire in China, the Gokturks and India in the 5th through 7th centuries are some things that also interest me.

I'd say the Byzantines and Sassanids are also always fascinating and the Baltic tribes and the Baltic region in this era is fascinating as well.

 

[Toraach]

I have chosen the Sassanians and "other", by I mean western Slavs. It is interesting that you ommited western slavs, a pretty big part of the map of Europe, yet included Hungarians and Khazars as separated options.

the Baltic tribes and the Baltic region in this era is fascinating as well.

What we know about the baltic religion and region during that era? I would like to read something about it, because I lack of orientation about this time and area.

 

[Shahrasayr]

Everything. Literally everything.

But to be specific I do like the dominion of Soissons, Saxon invasions, the Hepthalite invasions and rise of the Rajputra and the Vandals.

 

[Augenis]

What we know about the baltic religion and region during that era? I would like to read something about it, because I lack of orientation about this time and area.

Almost nothing, and that's what's fun about Baltistics.

It's like the Cowboy Bebop of fields of history - we know so little about the characters and the people involved that you can interpret it whatever way you want. /s

But really, information about the Balts at this time is obviously scarce, but interesting regardless. It was actually a time of important changes in the region - the old Baltic ethnicity was splitting apart into various tribes, which would later form modern Baltic nations, the Balts were enduring a Slavic invasion of their eastern lands, and archaeological evidence, combined with some little tidbits of info we get from Wulfstan, inform that the West Baltic tribes were going through a golden age of sorts.

 

[Gloss]

Post-Frankish period, because it determine a lot of the history of most of Europe for half a millennia and for considerable parts of Europe even longer.

 

[Kerney]

I prefer Frank screws and think a continental Saxon wank would be good. It could be the thing to prevent Christianity from taking over.

The Irish church is worth a tl and should have been included as a category.

I think the Christianization of Scandinavia could be delayed significantly. Ironically it might mean more Norse sources might survive.

I'm always up for a Arab screw. It's funny, it's the only time I cheer for the Byzantines.

 

[CountPeter]

I love the religious history of the middle east in this period. Manichaeism I have a particular soft spot for.

 

[Qhapaq Inka]

I chose a lot of the Middle Eastern topics, especially the Caliphates. Also Byzantium and the Bulgars, which I think were my favorite parts of Norwich's Byzantium trilogy.

Since I'm also into the Americas, let's not forget that the Early Middle Ages coincided with some of the heights of Mayan civilization.

 

[9 Fanged Hummingbird]

Pretty much everything about Britain, Ireland, and Scandinavia in this period I'm all for. I know far less about Russia in this period but wouldn't mind learning more.

I chose a lot of the Middle Eastern topics, especially the Caliphates. Also Byzantium and the Bulgars, which I think were my favorite parts of Norwich's Byzantium trilogy.

Since I'm also into the Americas, let's not forget that the Early Middle Ages coincided with some of the heights of Mayan civilization.

The general definition of the Early Middle Ages pretty much coincides with the Maya's Classical Era, along with the Terminal Classic when everything was going a bit haywire but you still had those big giant cities and whatnot. Not to mention Teotihuacan was flourishing for the first half of this era, being one of the largest cities in the world at the time.

 

[LizardLieutenant]

Anything with the Balts and Slavs. Especially if they adopt or create an organized religion that is not Christianity, perhaps with some equivalent to Muhammad or them adopting something from the east rather than Christianity from the west. Especially good if the Balts, West Slavs, and East Slavs are unified, culturally/religiously if not politically. The South Slavs I can't see ending up as anything but Christian feudal kingdoms or Byzantine provinces, though they may end up as different kinds of Christian than OTL, since they're just too close to the Mediterranean.

The Old Prussians are especially fun to see survive and either consolidate or Lithuanianize. (The latter is likelier if Lithuania consolidates faster, which could naturally lead to expansion of Lithuania into Prussia and Curonia, but a consolidated Prussia might Prussianize Lithuania instead.)

 

[Superninja76]

I've always been interested in a consolidation of the old prussians. Believe it or not, it was actually a bit easier than you'd believe. They even had their own quasi high-king figure, with a decent amount more respect than their irish counterparts, called a Krīvu Kirvaits, I believe.
The krivu kirvaits was seen as a sort of..pontifical figure, I suppose, would be the best estimate. He was elected, and allegedly had the ability to communicate between gods and men, and to my knowledge was generally seen as divine. He's mentioned in a couple texts that I've found, and apparently the krivu kirvs (an alternate name) was written about by contemporary figures like Peter of Duisburg, a teutonic scholar. He had dominion (not sure that's the proper word, but meh.) over not only the old prussians, but their neighbours, according to peter. He also stayed in a specific holy place, referred to as Ramava, which was used as not only the singular place to hold sacrifices, but for secular meetings between the leaders of the "Tautos", or the regions each tribe resided in. These could be of a political, religous, or on occasion, military nature.

Although peter did have some bias (oddly enough, on the side of the old prussians!), his information on the subject seems to be, mostly, reliable.

Had the old prussians been a little more lucky, and had elected a single military commander for their armies (let's say Herkus Monte, who clearly would've been the most capable military leader, as he's an almost arminius-like figure), the knights might well would've been wiped out or atleast kicked out of prussia, allowing the prussian tribes to consolidate.

An earlier timeline would simply require a sort of "great man figure" being the krivu kirvaits, but where's the fun in that?

 

[chr92]

It may be a little early to qualify, but I ticked 'other' for Christian North Africa.

 

[Deleted member 114175]

I have chosen the Sassanians and "other", by I mean western Slavs. It is interesting that you ommited western slavs, a pretty big part of the map of Europe, yet included Hungarians and Khazars as separated options.

Oh, the Empire of Great Moravia and the consolidating Duchy of Poland slipped my mind, since I was referring to a map of 800 AD to come up with the options.

Do you have any specific Western Slavic-focused PODs in mind?

I prefer Frank screws and think a continental Saxon wank would be good. It could be the thing to prevent Christianity from taking over.

With a relatively late POD (during Charlemagne's Saxon Wars) perhaps the continental Saxons could survive as a rump state for a few more decades, which Danish Vikings later acquire or coup d'etat (e.g. Rorik of Dorestad). Then the Danes use Saxony as a base for raiding the rest of the Frankish lands. It could become a second "Normandy" in the long run.

 

[Augenis]

I've always been interested in a consolidation of the old prussians. Believe it or not, it was actually a bit easier than you'd believe. They even had their own quasi high-king figure, with a decent amount more respect than their irish counterparts, called a Krīvu Kirvaits, I believe.
The krivu kirvaits was seen as a sort of..pontifical figure, I suppose, would be the best estimate. He was elected, and allegedly had the ability to communicate between gods and men, and to my knowledge was generally seen as divine. He's mentioned in a couple texts that I've found, and apparently the krivu kirvs (an alternate name) was written about by contemporary figures like Peter of Duisburg, a teutonic scholar. He had dominion (not sure that's the proper word, but meh.) over not only the old prussians, but their neighbours, according to peter. He also stayed in a specific holy place, referred to as Ramava, which was used as not only the singular place to hold sacrifices, but for secular meetings between the leaders of the "Tautos", or the regions each tribe resided in. These could be of a political, religous, or on occasion, military nature.

Although peter did have some bias (oddly enough, on the side of the old prussians!), his information on the subject seems to be, mostly, reliable.

Had the old prussians been a little more lucky, and had elected a single military commander for their armies (let's say Herkus Monte, who clearly would've been the most capable military leader, as he's an almost arminius-like figure), the knights might well would've been wiped out or atleast kicked out of prussia, allowing the prussian tribes to consolidate.

An earlier timeline would simply require a sort of "great man figure" being the krivu kirvaits, but where's the fun in that?

Actually, Duisburg's account is very much questioned by modern historians. It is the only contemporary source to describe Prussian paganism as an organized religion, which is immediately opposed by ethnographic evidence, other historical accounts, as well as the organization of similar European pagan faiths. Nothing similar to the Romuva exists in Lithuanian or Latvian mythology or legends. It's been suggested that Duisburg overblown or simply made up the organized nature of Baltic paganism to make it appear like a counterpart of Christianity (the Kriwe of Kriwes is described as "a pagan pope" for a reason) and thus make it look more intimidating.

Whether things like kriwes and kriwes of kriwes existed is an another question, but as far as I've seen, it's likely that Duisburg adopted the name of a real, though not religious position among the Baltic tribes - in Lithuanian, "krivūlė" is the name for a symbolic staff used to call the people to a tribe meeting, so a "krivis" would be someone who wields that staff (so kinda like an elder). Maybe there was a "krivių krivaitis" in one of the more powerful Prussian tribes (probably Sambians, as they were the most powerful of the Prussian tribes) who had dominion over some other nearby tribes, who knows.

Either way, the time of Herkus Monte is way after the Early Middle Ages ended.

 

[DanMcCollum]

Well, based on my Amalingian timeline I'd have to say the Goths. But I also have a HUGE soft spot for the Anglo-Saxons and the Gaels

 

[Superninja76]

Actually, Duisburg's account is very much questioned by modern historians. It is the only contemporary source to describe Prussian paganism as an organized religion, which is immediately opposed by ethnographic evidence, other historical accounts, as well as the organization of similar European pagan faiths. Nothing similar to the Romuva exists in Lithuanian or Latvian mythology or legends. It's been suggested that Duisburg overblown or simply made up the organized nature of Baltic paganism to make it appear like a counterpart of Christianity (the Kriwe of Kriwes is described as "a pagan pope" for a reason) and thus make it look more intimidating.

Whether things like kriwes and kriwes of kriwes existed is an another question, but as far as I've seen, it's likely that Duisburg adopted the name of a real, though not religious position among the Baltic tribes - in Lithuanian, "krivūlė" is the name for a symbolic staff used to call the people to a tribe meeting, so a "krivis" would be someone who wields that staff (so kinda like an elder). Maybe there was a "krivių krivaitis" in one of the more powerful Prussian tribes (probably Sambians, as they were the most powerful of the Prussian tribes) who had dominion over some other nearby tribes, who knows.

Either way, the time of Herkus Monte is way after the Early Middle Ages ended.

OOF. Well, I'm honoured that you took apart my post, man. I've been reading the silver knight lately, great timeline!

 

[Augenis]

OOF. Well, I'm honoured that you took apart my post, man. I've been reading the silver knight lately, great timeline!

it's okay, and thanks!

It is possible to make Prussia consolidate earlier, even as early as the 11th century, but I believe it would require a different POD. Something like, say, the Amber Road not weakening and thus causing a decline of Prussian cities like Truso, who could serve as a potential center of consolidation for the Prussian tribes.