With no (or limited) Islam how far west could Buddhism spread?

[eschaton]

IOTL Buddhism's western spread was ended through the rise of Islam. Pre-Islamic Afghanistan seems to have been majority Buddhist. Bactria and Margiana, and Central Asia more broadly appear to be areas of religious flux, where Buddhists, Zoroastrians, Manichaeists, and Nestorian Christians were all found in close proximity. There is the general belief that Zoroastrianism was going through a period of decline even before the Arab invasion, with the religion essentially functioning as the court religion of their state - a status quo which likely would not hold if the dynasty was overthrown.

Regardless, let's presume either there is no Islam, or it's strangled in its grave, never substantially getting out of Arabia. How far could Buddhism spread to the west? Is it possible it could become the state religion of Persia? When the Turkic migrations reach into Central Asia a few decades later, might many Turks convert to Buddhism, resulting in the introduction of the religion all the way into Europe?

 

[Byzantion]

IOTL Buddhism's western spread was ended through the rise of Islam. Pre-Islamic Afghanistan seems to have been majority Buddhist. Bactria and Margiana, and Central Asia more broadly appear to be areas of religious flux, where Buddhists, Zoroastrians, Manichaeists, and Nestorian Christians were all found in close proximity. There is the general belief that Zoroastrianism was going through a period of decline even before the Arab invasion, with the religion essentially functioning as the court religion of their state - a status quo which likely would not hold if the dynasty was overthrown.

Regardless, let's presume either there is no Islam, or it's strangled in its grave, never substantially getting out of Arabia. How far could Buddhism spread to the west? Is it possible it could become the state religion of Persia? When the Turkic migrations reach into Central Asia a few decades later, might many Turks convert to Buddhism, resulting in the introduction of the religion all the way into Europe?

Well, OTL we had even Bhuddist Kalmyk Khanate in Caucasus areea, that's the closed west I known. Maybe ATL Tengriist Turanic people adapt Bhuddism and merge it with their previos believe system ? Maybe spread it to Eastern Europe ? Seljuk Bhuddism ? Bhuddist Bulgar Khanate, Bhuddist Avars and Magyars ? Slav subjects are introduced to Bhuddism as well. Bhuddism spreads to the Balkans. Slav Bogomills convert to Bhuddism.Maybe Chasar Khan invites Lamas and feels attached to Bhuddism. Chasar Khanate becomes Bhuddist. Maybe even Kievan Rus are in the situation to chose between Greek Orthodoxy and Bhuddism. The Volga could become a transcultural center in the spread of Bhuddism and its ideas. Even Scandinavia is affected by hearsay about Bhuddism. Byzantine Empire is most likely not so tolerant towards Bhuddism but who knows ? In Europe there might be theological debates regarding the truthfulness of Bhuddist ideas.

 

[Koprulu Mustafa Pasha]

IOTL Buddhism's western spread was ended through the rise of Islam. Pre-Islamic Afghanistan seems to have been majority Buddhist. Bactria and Margiana, and Central Asia more broadly appear to be areas of religious flux, where Buddhists, Zoroastrians, Manichaeists, and Nestorian Christians were all found in close proximity. There is the general belief that Zoroastrianism was going through a period of decline even before the Arab invasion, with the religion essentially functioning as the court religion of their state - a status quo which likely would not hold if the dynasty was overthrown.

Regardless, let's presume either there is no Islam, or it's strangled in its grave, never substantially getting out of Arabia. How far could Buddhism spread to the west? Is it possible it could become the state religion of Persia? When the Turkic migrations reach into Central Asia a few decades later, might many Turks convert to Buddhism, resulting in the introduction of the religion all the way into Europe?

Not really further as there is a Zoroastian Persia and Central Asia. Maybe more successful in India.

 

[WilliamOfOckham]

Unless the Sassanids pull off something remarkable, they're probably going to crumble down in the seventh or eighth centuries regardless of Islam. Most likely the classic Persian thing of "minor noble becomes warlord becomes shah" will happen. Zoroastrianism will still remain the state religion whatever happens, but with an extended period of anarchy you could probably weaken the bond between the church structure and government, in which case Buddhism could make some headway.

Long-term, I'd expect to see visibly distinct state and popular Zoroastrianisms. It's pretty much up to the writer how much the latter takes from Buddhism - it's a neat concept.

 

[Anarch King of Dipsodes]

When the Turkic migrations reach into Central Asia a few decades later, might many Turks convert to Buddhism, resulting in the introduction of the religion all the way into Europe?

In 1607, several hundred thousand Oirat Mongols migrated from northern Asia to the lower Volga. Many of them settled on the west side of the Volga, and west of the Caspian Sea, where they became known as Kalmuks, and still live. They are the only "native" Buddhists in Europe, owing ecclesiastical allegiance to the Dalai Lama. (Contact has been maintained continuously (except perhaps during the Communist era.)

So that's the OTL western limit for Buddhism.

An ATL possibliity: Sri Lanka is Buddhist; if Islam did not get in the way, might Buddhist missionaries or settlers reach East Africa?

 

[Monter]

Have some Turkic tribe convert and go wild.

 

[John7755 يوحنا]

Not really further as there is a Zoroastian Persia and Central Asia. Maybe more successful in India.

Central Asia is not Zoroastrian. It is a mixture of religions, one of which is Zoroastrianism, especially in Ferghana. However, the extent to which the Zoroastrianism in Ferghana or amongst numerous other groups, such as the Hepthalites, was in accordance with the Sassanid state policy, is unknown.

Do note, Zoroastrianism is very nearly a function of the Sassanid state ideology with numerous local and traditional beliefs.

 

[Timaeus]

A fanatically Buddhist Turkic horde sweeping from the east could well end up as far as Ukraine and Egypt.

 

[TruthfulPanda]

A fanatically Buddhist Turkic horde sweeping from the east could well end up as far as Ukraine and Egypt.

Blood for Nirvana!
Skulls for Buddha's Throne!

 

[ar-pharazon]

It would be interesting to see instead of a Christian-Islamic showdown for the fate of Asia a Christian-Buddhist showdown.

With Central Asia becoming an arena of intense religious competition-competing missionaries, state support for various religions etc...

 

[DominusNovus]

Something something Manichean syncretism something something.

 

[Salvador79]

It would be interesting to see instead of a Christian-Islamic showdown for the fate of Asia a Christian-Buddhist showdown.

This is pretty much the alt-Middle Ages in @Practical Lobster's The (New) World of the White Huns timeline(s).

 

[Dargonaut]

Indonesia could be a good place for Buddhism to spread

 

[ar-pharazon]

I think it was making some inroads there IIRC.

 

[Indicus]

There is the general belief that Zoroastrianism was going through a period of decline even before the Arab invasion,

This is a myth. Zoroastrianism successfully reformed itself by purging the shrine gods and centralizing the religion, stopping the growth of Christianity at the Zagros.

 

[eschaton]

A fanatically Buddhist Turkic horde sweeping from the east could well end up as far as Ukraine and Egypt.

This is an interesting idea, but full Buddhification has to happen relatively late. I say this because the history of Buddhism is that it tends to transform formerly very martial nations into relatively peaceful ones. See the Tibetans and Mongols.

Indonesia could be a good place for Buddhism to spread

IIRC Sumatra had basically entirely converted to Buddhism prior to the arrival of Islam. Most of the remainder of the developed parts of Indonesia was still Hindu however.

 

[inawarminister]

IIRC Sumatra had basically entirely converted to Buddhism prior to the arrival of Islam. Most of the remainder of the developed parts of Indonesia was still Hindu however.

in Indonesia, there was no distinction between Hindu and Buddhists. Shivaist Javanese called themselves of the "Budo" religion. But yeah, Srivijaya Sumatrans were staunchly Vajravayna, and they built Borobudur. In fact, pre-Islam, it seems that all Malays were Buddhist in the Srivijayan style. So...

 

[TruthfulPanda]

Isn't Indonesia sort of ... east?

With no Islam I can imagine tribes in the great Eurasian Steppe adopting Buddhism and some nomad nation conquering the Panonian Plain (sorry, Hungarians!) - so to answer the OP - "up to the outskirts of Vienna".

 

[Mightyboosh5]

More likely than Turkic conquest of Europe is some sort of Buddhist Turkic invasion of India, northern India could become significantly more Buddhist.

I wonder how the Christian Mediterranean would react to Zoroastrian and Buddhist incursions come the Middle Ages.

 

[Max Sinister]

If Buddhism takes root further west, it might become a very different Buddhism. Just like Chinese and Japanese Buddhism is very different from the original further south.