When Nelson Mandela was found guilty of treason in the early 1960s, his defence team thought that there was 50-50 chance that Mandela and his co-accused would get the death penalty. Obviously that didn't happen, and he was sentenced to life imprisonment. What would have happened if Mandela and his co-defendants had been sentenced to death?
WI Mandela executed after his treason trial?
- Thread starter Marius
- Start date
He was convicted of treason, trying to violently overthrow the State. Not everybody gets only 8 months for trying that.
Originally Posted by Baron von Feldspar
He was convicted of treason, trying to violently overthrow the State. Not everybody gets only 8 months for trying that.
Mandela had previously charge along with others with being part of ANC's armed struggle, see treason trial 1956-1961. He was acquited along with all his co-defendants because the ANC at that time was engaged in non-violent political activity.
After being acquited of trying to violent overthrow the state using the armed struggle, otherwise known as terrorism, he and others proceded to commit the offense that they were previuosly acquited of. The ANC armed wing The Spear of the Nation was set up in 1961 and began a campaign to "forment violent revolution", wiki quote. within 2 years Mandela and others were arrested and charged and convicted with running a terrorist group, or armed struggle group. It was a fair conviction because they were aiming to take over the country, some would even say conquer, by using the "armed struggle".
The reference to some people only getting 8 months for trying to violently overthrow the legimate authorities I was thinking of another famous incident, The Beerhall Putsch. The Beerhall putsch was an attempt of the Nazi party to take over Barvaria. It wasn't not well organized as the ANC bombing campaign. The Nazis didn't have the same revolutiony theory and practices that ANC had thru their commie connections. Hitler and others were rightly charged with treason following the Beerhall Putsch. Hitler got out after only 8 months only becasue he was treated kindly by the legal and political authorities he attempted to usurp.
He was convicted of treason, trying to violently overthrow the State. Not everybody gets only 8 months for trying that.
Mandela had previously charge along with others with being part of ANC's armed struggle, see treason trial 1956-1961. He was acquited along with all his co-defendants because the ANC at that time was engaged in non-violent political activity.
After being acquited of trying to violent overthrow the state using the armed struggle, otherwise known as terrorism, he and others proceded to commit the offense that they were previuosly acquited of. The ANC armed wing The Spear of the Nation was set up in 1961 and began a campaign to "forment violent revolution", wiki quote. within 2 years Mandela and others were arrested and charged and convicted with running a terrorist group, or armed struggle group. It was a fair conviction because they were aiming to take over the country, some would even say conquer, by using the "armed struggle".
The reference to some people only getting 8 months for trying to violently overthrow the legimate authorities I was thinking of another famous incident, The Beerhall Putsch. The Beerhall putsch was an attempt of the Nazi party to take over Barvaria. It wasn't not well organized as the ANC bombing campaign. The Nazis didn't have the same revolutiony theory and practices that ANC had thru their commie connections. Hitler and others were rightly charged with treason following the Beerhall Putsch. Hitler got out after only 8 months only becasue he was treated kindly by the legal and political authorities he attempted to usurp.
Interesting concept. Certainly many of the ANC leaders are going to continue to live abroad and sell their concept of their vision of South Africa whilst learning liberal capitalism.
The question is that what did Mandela bring to South African politics that nobody else did - and the answer is "not much". He initially tried to emulate Gandhi and non-violent protest but that clearly didn't work so he founds MK and begins a war against the government. At his trial he did talk passionately about non-violent protest and how he was forced into armed struggle which really sold his image abroad.
In PR terms, the trial was badly managed and the UNSC criticised it heavily. If the Nationalists were a bit more canny and managed things a little better, collecting hard evidence and presenting an irrefutable case to the world, the ANC would have been denounced as a bunch of Marxist thugs interested in fermenting communist revolution and largely forgotten. However, this didn't happen and Mandela became the poster-boy for change in South Africa.
Mandela is executed, the ANC leadership decapitated and it fractures into various splinter groups. South Africa therefore would receive more attention from NATO as an anti-communist bulwark in Africa and would do more to help prop up the Nationalists but only on the condition that more reforms be enabled.
Verwoerd might decide to grant the Black "Homelands" more autonomy thus in effect creating two nations - the Western Cape and the Eastern Cape. The black majority would be encouraged to migrate to the Eastern Cape whilst the white minority would live in the West. Namibia might even experience a similar migratory pattern and the whites could have depopulated Namibia and moved its tiny population to the Eastern Cape and then announced union between the two states so you have a white-majority state, a black majority state and a very confused Rhodesia.
The execution of Mandela and his co-accused may well have been the straw that broke the camel's back. It may have led to a popular uprising in South Africa among the blacks, but probably not. Despite Mandela's abandonment of non-violent resistance, I am not sure if he had any other choice. The Nat government weren't exactly known for the pleasant way in which they treated anti-apartheid campaigners. And I'm not sure that without Mandela South Africa would have been the same. Mandela showed enormous generosity of spirit when he was released from prison, he forgave his captors, and he did what was best for the country (abandoning the Marxist economic principles which the ANC espoused, such as nationalisation, preaching reconciliation, not prosecuting members of the old regime, establishing a Government of National Unity, retiring after only five years in charge etc.)
ninebucks
Banned
While by this point it is almost inevitable that Apartheid will be overthrown, it is far from certain what will replace it. In OTL, Mandela was instrumental in introducing democracy, and he made sure not to punish the White community as a whole but instead concentrated on healing inter-ethnic relations. Even now he remains a stabilising 'father of the nation'-type figure, with his influence able to unite political factions on issues such as foreign relations and AIDS.
Without him, the future of South Africa is really left open to chance. Its quite likely that a militant, Marxist, anti-White government could come in and really screw up South Africa. The international anti-Apartheid movement would have egg on its face if a Nelson Mandela-figure came into power and established an ethnocentric dictatorship.
Without him, the future of South Africa is really left open to chance. Its quite likely that a militant, Marxist, anti-White government could come in and really screw up South Africa. The international anti-Apartheid movement would have egg on its face if a Nelson Mandela-figure came into power and established an ethnocentric dictatorship.
Susano
Banned
Should be a bit more difficult in South Africa, if only for the fact the whites have a far larger % of the population than they had in Zimbabwe. Also, theyre better entrenched. In Rhodesia, the whites were kind of dependant on the colonial power - and in case of SA there hasnt been one in decades. Hence, its unlikely anybody could just set up a Mugabe-style dictatorship. The dystopian alternative for South Africa would have been civil war, not Zimbabwe.
Mandela pretty much had a successor in Steve Biko. There are many places in time where things could have gone differently for South Africa and the fight against apartheid, but in all honesty if it ever did devolve into a full-blown war as it did in Rhodesia it would have been brutality on a holocaust-level scale, if not bigger.
The ANC very brightly decided the better option with the armed struggle was not to attack whites, but to just hit the government. As the violence ratcheted up in the 80s the ANC did start bombing bars and nightclubs, but the violence was worst perpetrated by dumbass police forces shooting at anything that moved in the townships. If you want a full-blown civil war, that's what you do. But had Mandela been executed, there was others to take his place - Walter Sisulu, Oliver Tambo, Govan Mbeki (and eventually Thabo Mbeki), Joe Slovo (who is white, FYI), Albert Luthuli and then the second group of guys who came around in the 70s, led by Steve Biko.
By Biko's time, Afrikaners were starting to turn against apartheid in many cases too. Witness people like Andre Brink, Rian Malan, Alan Paton, Beyers Naude and Helen Suzman.
Had Biko not been so brutally murdered and instead had led the non-violent resistance, that might have been enough to stop the violence of 1980s South Africa before it happened, Mandela and the ANC around or not. Biko's death turned out to be the trigger for the roundabout circle of violence that still rages today. Apartheid was beaten but then the blacks turned on each other in big numbers, causing the crime rate that cripples South Africa today. I am of the opinion that the sanctions that damaged SA's economy in the 1980s did more harm than good, and if the population had stayed non-violent than things would have been very different. The whites by and large were not on Mandela's side in 1964 - but they were definitely starting to turn against it by Biko's time.
The ANC very brightly decided the better option with the armed struggle was not to attack whites, but to just hit the government. As the violence ratcheted up in the 80s the ANC did start bombing bars and nightclubs, but the violence was worst perpetrated by dumbass police forces shooting at anything that moved in the townships. If you want a full-blown civil war, that's what you do. But had Mandela been executed, there was others to take his place - Walter Sisulu, Oliver Tambo, Govan Mbeki (and eventually Thabo Mbeki), Joe Slovo (who is white, FYI), Albert Luthuli and then the second group of guys who came around in the 70s, led by Steve Biko.
By Biko's time, Afrikaners were starting to turn against apartheid in many cases too. Witness people like Andre Brink, Rian Malan, Alan Paton, Beyers Naude and Helen Suzman.
Had Biko not been so brutally murdered and instead had led the non-violent resistance, that might have been enough to stop the violence of 1980s South Africa before it happened, Mandela and the ANC around or not. Biko's death turned out to be the trigger for the roundabout circle of violence that still rages today. Apartheid was beaten but then the blacks turned on each other in big numbers, causing the crime rate that cripples South Africa today. I am of the opinion that the sanctions that damaged SA's economy in the 1980s did more harm than good, and if the population had stayed non-violent than things would have been very different. The whites by and large were not on Mandela's side in 1964 - but they were definitely starting to turn against it by Biko's time.
Add in foreign corporations backing sides in an effort to get access to South Africa's mineral resources (conflict diamonds writ large)... not a recipe for a good time.
ninebucks
Banned
Yes. In fact, I meant to type 'Robert Mugabe-type figure' but 'Nelson Mandela-type figure' got typed out by mistake
.I offer my apologies to Mr. Mandela.
Steve Biko wasn't in the ANC, he was founder of the Black Consciousness movement, which emphasised African Nationalism. I don't think he would have been as reconcilitary as Mandela if he had lived. Also Govan Mbeki and Walter Sisulu would all have been executed with Mandela, they were convicted at the same trial. Alan Paton is also not an Afrikaner, he was an English-speaking South African.