WI an anarcho-communist country was established?

TheCrow__

Banned
I am a strong proponet of America's capitalistic imperialism and have been advocating anarcho-communism as the 'best' form of government that could be established, or aggreed upon. So, I was wondering what you other threaders would think what would be the results if a country, maybe Russia, France, or the American colonies, had established an anarcho-communist society? I believe equallity would reach a point of no return, if that makes sense. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarchist_communism
 

Sachyriel

Banned
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Somalia

The answer to all idiotic Anarchist fantasies.

I swear if you call me an idiot one more time I will call you a one more time.

Anyways, Anarcho-communism is exactly what it says on the tin, communal ownership of the means of production. This means everyone gets a say in the way the factory or knitting circle does business with other organizations. Now this means businesses will have to be smaller amounts of people for the farther back in time you go.

The community that owns the means of production would have dependants who have no say in the means of production, but instead rely on their representatives to gain them some sort of benefit from the factory. To put this in simpler terms, John has a kid named Bob, Bob can't work he's like 3 years old. If John works well he can gain himself and Bob shelter, food, water, child care (for when Johns at work), education (so maybe Bob can support him in his old age) and other things.

Now, that sounds suspisciously like how things work today, so let me point out the divergence. John and the rest of his union have health insurance that isn't divided into premiums or tiers such as first class or whatever. All the people in the union have similar plans for their factory community.

John also receives an egalitarian reward with his other workers for his labour. If not, perhaps those getting more are doing a more dangerous job. Perhaps the Union voted to give the other workers (the guys whose job descriptions aren't Johns) raises because they need more of that type of worker and need to attract them. Whatever, the point is John has the power among his fellows to influence the duties of the Factory Executive to raise or lower the wages to run the factory.

This idea repeats for many means of production. Mills, Farms, Textiles, hey even newspapers can be co-ops. However aside from Community efforts to pre-plan quotas and trade with other communities or unions for shortages in the future there is little that can be done without the required amount of pre-achieved labour that would allow the people to overcome shortages.

Which is where benefit of the doubt comes in. Instead of credit, which is essentially the same thing backed up by the threat of imprisonment or force, the idea of giving other people a loan based on the "Benefit of the doubt" is increased in the Anarcho-Communist Society.

After all, you can't have a lassez-faire society without trusting that other people will do their jobs while you do yours. Knowing this, people in certain communities will trade with other communities and if they're short and this shortage would cause problems for that other community it would not be too much to ask that the community that can take care of the others needs would do so if they are able. The ascendancy of "From each according to/to each according to" to the community level instead of the individual level would be required for a multi-community Anarchist state.

To put this in perspective, we'll have five (yes a grand total of five) Communities at play.

Fishington
is a fishing town, and has all your fish and coast-based needs, the community of workers is close and have a normal amount of dependants (youth and elders).
Rockinghaven (not rockingham :p) is basically a quarry town with a small lumberjack community on the outskirts; they have a spread out community of workers and a sub-normal amount of dependants.
Wheatville is the town for farming crops like wheat, corn, cannabis, peaches, apples, basically the good stuff. It has a spread out community of workers however it has a larger ratio of dependants (farming communities usually do!)
Coal City is a mining town which trades mostly in the coal (like you expected gold?) and has a normal amount of workers and sub-normal amount of dependants
Capital City is basically what it says, and though it has a high number of workers it has a high amount of dependants because of its military base and university system (both of which are not immediately productive).

Okay, so let's say that each community is very productive. Fishington puts out enough fish to send to the other communities as well as meet its own demand. All cities do. But then, disaster strikes, some hurricane has damaged boats and they can no longer meet the required amount of fish for everyone, so Wheatville will have to go the extra mile; but since Wheatville has too many dependants for its own production it's gotta send them off to be trained at other trades (or off to the military or college) or it could import more workers from places where there are less-than normal numbers of dependants (like Coal City).

It could even do a bit of both in order to achieve the best effects for details which have other effects that we won't go into.

So, let's say that most of this is plausible, and the ... Americans decide to go for the Anarcho-Communism thing, with the entire "requirement of trust" for the lassez faire society fitting in with Christianity, perhaps the majority could get it to work. The United States of America won't do as a name, the idea is supposed to be the local community helps each other out so perhaps something like the American Social Union, where if you're in the union as a community you register with the other nearby communities of workers in order to get the lists and send them to a central processing area (the capital).
 
I agree with the anarchist, surprisingly enough.

Anarcho-communism (or syndicalism, as I think is the technical term) is everything as a co-op.

Somalia--I don't even know what to call it. Tribalism, maybe?
 

TheCrow__

Banned
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Somalia

The answer to all idiotic Anarchist fantasies.

Anarcho-communism is by far a world a way from your average punk description of anarchism my friend yes fuck the government but not fuck society.
I swear if you call me an idiot one more time I will call you a one more time.

Anyways, Anarcho-communism is exactly what it says on the tin, communal ownership of the means of production. This means everyone gets a say in the way the factory or knitting circle does business with other organizations. Now this means businesses will have to be smaller amounts of people for the farther back in time you go.
wow mmmeee0 if I ever start a commune how'd you like to be involved lol and this is exactly what I wanted to hear and I'd like to know more on your ideas of a military and university system, I believe education should be very important in this society and free thinking individuality a necesity and on the military should there be a compulsary military service or what.
 
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Unicorns and Rainbows

Sorry, the "let's all share everything and be nice to each other" world philosophy does not work oustside of kindergarten and Sunday school. Never has, never will.

/thread
 
A good example as to why anarchism would NOT work:

Take a school library, and have all the staff elsewhere in the school while the upper 6th are in a revision class.

Anarchy would be a mess as everyone has to be consulted in, say New York City on every last minute detail which is usually left to the civil service or the council.

Any self sufficient anarcho communist society will require alien space bats to properly function as humans are conniving backstabbing thieving brutes at heart. you just need to look at a school to see what humans are really like.
 

TheCrow__

Banned
A good example as to why anarchism would NOT work:

Take a school library, and have all the staff elsewhere in the school while the upper 6th are in a revision class.

Anarchy would be a mess as everyone has to be consulted in, say New York City on every last minute detail which is usually left to the civil service or the council.

Any self sufficient anarcho communist society will require alien space bats to properly function as humans are conniving backstabbing thieving brutes at heart. you just need to look at a school to see what humans are really like.
Sorry, the "let's all share everything and be nice to each other" world philosophy does not work oustside of kindergarten and Sunday school. Never has, never will.

/thread

people are only conniving and backstabbing because they live in a society where they are the dominant species and they've raped the land but by nature people are not. this all goes to the old 'nature vs. nurture' thing. the key is that authority will not save humanity but coming together as whole will. I'll admit it is an idealistic theory but is idealism really imaginary, I think not. and Avalon your first sentence makes absolutely not sense to me can you restate it thanks.
 
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Okay, i shall clarify.

Take a school library, and have all the staff elsewhere in the school while the upper 6th are in a revision class. while it is fairly hard to get u6th to revise with administration around, without the librarian or teachers, things get out of hand pretty quickly.

And btw, the first murders were around in the bronze age and before, as with otzi. this was before many hierarchies so how do you explain that discrepancy. Because someone will ALWAYS want what you've got. Take a look at a school again, where bullies will demand lunch money. they are only punished because of authority figures (teachers and school staff), whereas the majority of the school (anarchy) would call someone who reports on them a tout.

"by nature people are not"

Like bandits back in Jesus' time? who were only punished by the romans?

Face it, it fails the moment i realise i am superior to the person next to me in whatever way that matters.
 
Anarcho-communism is by far a world a way from your average punk description of anarchism my friend yes fuck the government but not fuck society.

If you remove the government society soon collapses with it, as has happened again and again in history.
 
Okay, i shall clarify.

Take a school library, and have all the staff elsewhere in the school while the upper 6th are in a revision class. while it is fairly hard to get u6th to revise with administration around, without the librarian or teachers, things get out of hand pretty quickly.

And btw, the first murders were around in the bronze age and before, as with otzi. this was before many hierarchies so how do you explain that discrepancy. Because someone will ALWAYS want what you've got. Take a look at a school again, where bullies will demand lunch money. they are only punished because of authority figures (teachers and school staff), whereas the majority of the school (anarchy) would call someone who reports on them a tout.

"by nature people are not"

Like bandits back in Jesus' time? who were only punished by the romans?

Face it, it fails the moment i realise i am superior to the person next to me in whatever way that matters.

If humans would be such egoistic, power hungry beings as you say, every form of society would devolve into a dictatorship. The strongest would rally a gang and coup however is in charge and rule by force. Every form of democracy would be impossible.

I agree with you, that some people are as bad as you say. But in all working societies, those individuals are kept in check by the rest of the society through laws and a form of law enforcement.
Every form of society, including anarcho-communism, has some basic ideas on which the society and all other laws are based. The basic idea of anarcho-communism is that all persons are economically and politically equal and must therefore have a say in all decisions in the society and there company/factory, which means grassroots democracy in society and firms.
Just as in a democracy, this system can only work, if its supported by the majority of the society and people are willing to defend it against threats from within and without. That means even in an anarchy there is some kind of police and military, maybe as professional forces but more likely as militias.

If you remove the government society soon collapses with it, as has happened again and again in history.

Anarchy is not about "hey, let's take away the government and see what happens!". Is I said above, it's an economical and political system, that's based around the idea of political and economical equality and cooperation between all individuals of the society to achieve this.
 
Anarchy is not about "hey, let's take away the government and see what happens!". Is I said above, it's an economical and political system, that's based around the idea of political and economical equality and cooperation between all individuals of the society to achieve this.

Which is a lovely idea but nothing except wishful thinking realistically.
 
Granting political and/or economical equality to all people means to trust them to make the right decision.

For example:

If you live in a system without political equality, like a tyranny or monarchy, you have to trust the guy at the top to make the right decisions for the country and to appoint qualified advisers and ministers.
If you don't, your only options are to stage a coup or to emigrate.

If you live in a system with political equality, like a democracy, you trust your fellow citizens (above a certain age), to make the right decisions for the country, either by a referendum or by voting for the party best suited to rule the country. If you don't trust them to make the right decision, you can either emigrate or you try to convince others to vote the way you think would be best by debate or to vote for you.

Now for economical equality:

If you work in a 'classic' firm, you have to trust your boss to make the right decisions for the firm and to hire the right guys to run the firm. If you don't trust him, well, you can try to work your way up to become the boss (good luck with that) or you look for another job.

If you work in a system (or firm) with economic equality, you trust your coworkers to make the right decisions for the firm (if its a small business) or to vote for the guys best suited to make decisions, assign tasks, etc.
 

Sachyriel

Banned
Look at all these haters. Haters gonna hate.:rolleyes:

tumblr_ktokc5dyBh1qzeovdo1_500.jpg
 
Like these things tend to happen, things would eventually start going wrong, people would start dying, and it would keep happening until a strong man stepped in and killed more of the right people to stop the violence (that is, the violence anyone else is perpetuated).

After ward, every body would start talking about what a discredited ideology anarcho-communism is, and how anarcho-syndicalism is the way to be.
 

Sachyriel

Banned
Like these things tend to happen, things would eventually start going wrong, people would start dying, and it would keep happening until a strong man stepped in and killed more of the right people to stop the violence (that is, the violence anyone else is perpetuated).

After ward, every body would start talking about what a discredited ideology anarcho-communism is, and how anarcho-syndicalism is the way to be.

But why would you trust the word of people who tell you trusting others decisions was a bad idea? :confused:
 
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