Did you not hear the word "medieval"? And white farmers had the advantage of some degree of medical care in that region. Even a hundred years ago people had an idea of how to eliminate things like mosquitos. I'm not sure white people in Nigeria or the Congo will do so well, especially if they are treated in a way comparable to the way blacks were treated in the Antebellum South.
White slaves in Africa?
- Thread starter Hubris Incarnate
- Start date
Did you not hear the word "medieval"? And white farmers had the advantage of some degree of medical care in that region. Even a hundred years ago people had an idea of how to eliminate things like mosquitos. I'm not sure white people in Nigeria or the Congo will do so well, especially if they are treated in a way comparable to the way blacks were treated in the Antebellum South.
Susano
Banned
Didn't I say Sub-Saharan Africa? Apologies if I didn't specify that.
Does anyone agree with me that the idea of a black slave master slaving and whipping a herd of pallids(or whatever derogatary term emerges) is a hillarious image?
AmIndHistoryAuthor
Banned
Not necessarily. If the whites were former slaveowners, it'd be just and more than a little fitting. Most might say it was justice being served.
Though if they were slave traders, a more fitting punishment would be the death penalty.
Back the POD, one can imagine a TL where indentured servitude stays the norm in the 17th century, including potentially some free Blacks owning white indentured servants in greater numbers. But permanent slavery in greater numbers, I have a hard time coming up with a POD.
Yes, but both the comment before the animation and the OP suggest a world where blacks enslave ordinary white people. There is no revenge; white people are merely enslaved the way black people were IOTL. So is being happy to see a black man enslave ordinary white people in any way better than being happy to see a white man enslave ordinary black people?
Jaded_Railman
Banned
Yes, it is.
Like most people, you seem to have this idea that racism is anything but the act of categorizing people as members of a race, rather than individuals. That idea is wrong.
Is a field filled with former slave owners slaving away for the benefit of their former slaves a type of justice? Yes. Is a field filled with white people slaving away for the benefit of black people racism? Also yes.
The crime of one does not excuse the crime of another.
Snake Featherston
Banned
Except that's not the OP. The OP is a world where ordinary whites are slaves to rich non-whites. Is wishing on more whites the fate of Eastern Europeans for a long time (and still today to an extent often not acknowledged) a good thing? Or is it simply replacing one evil for another?
AmIndHistoryAuthor
Banned
Oh brother.
Other than that phrase where you put words into my mouth that I have never said anything remotely close to, we are in agreement. You basically are preaching to another choir member. More than a little condescending.
Abdul Hadi Pasha
Banned
There aren't any - pirates don't keep statistics, but it certainly wasn't in the millions! Can you even imagine Europe putting up with that? You'd have to capture 50,000 ships to get that many slaves!
Snake Featherston
Banned
The problem is that you presume that one injustice *is* equal to another. Your comment was this: Not necessarily. If the whites were former slaveowners, it'd be just and more than a little fitting. Most might say it was justice being served.
Though if they were slave traders, a more fitting punishment would be the death penalty.
This is saying two wrongs make a right. In the Western world this idea has been dropped since the days of Hammurabi. And in any case, enslaving former slaveowners given that the whole point of slavery is that they *don't* bother working with their hands or knowing how to effectively would be replacing one extremely lethal injustice with an even more lethal one. And none of this changes that IOTL New World slavery was both extremely evil and extremely lethal.
Snake Featherston
Banned
What about Eastern Europeans? Is there any estimate of how many Slavs were kept as slaves by the Western Europeans & Caliphates?
Abdul Hadi Pasha
Banned
That's a period of over 1,000 years in the case of Islamic states - I don't know if it's possible to guess, but it would be a large number.
Didn't I say Sub-Saharan Africa? Apologies if I didn't specify that.
Does anyone agree with me that the idea of a black slave master slaving and whipping a herd of pallids(or whatever derogatary term emerges) is a hillarious image?
It is intensely erotic. I need to wank off
Snake Featherston
Banned
For some reason one never hears Western Christians acknowledge that aspect of the slave trade then or now.
Of course I say that in the United States where our own treatment of the history of slavery *here* is still less than adequate.
Didn't I say Sub-Saharan Africa? Apologies if I didn't specify that.
Does anyone agree with me that the idea of a black slave master slaving and whipping a herd of pallids(or whatever derogatary term emerges) is a hillarious image?
You are, maybe, 12 years old? That's the only emotional maturity level I can imagine that might find that image hilarious. Either that or you're just a troll.
Revolutionary Todyo
Banned
Did no one hear what I said about the image being made up?
Now leave your liberalism outside and contribute to this instead of complaining about racism.
This idea is incredibly intresting but it's being ruined by everyone trying to look the most offended. Anyway, I'm just guessing here, but I think Hubris is white, so hows that racist?
Anyway. My guess for this situation is powerful African state developing on the west coast (OTL Senegal probably) during the first Dark Ages (when the Greek myths were made). Then it could raid Iberia, eventually coming into contact with Greeks, Carthaginians and Romans.
Now leave your liberalism outside and contribute to this instead of complaining about racism.
This idea is incredibly intresting but it's being ruined by everyone trying to look the most offended. Anyway, I'm just guessing here, but I think Hubris is white, so hows that racist?
Anyway. My guess for this situation is powerful African state developing on the west coast (OTL Senegal probably) during the first Dark Ages (when the Greek myths were made). Then it could raid Iberia, eventually coming into contact with Greeks, Carthaginians and Romans.
I don't see why a powerful West African Empire might prevent the African slave trade. Ships can go south, to South Africa, or perhaps the West African Empire has its own black slaves that it grabs in war on its own borders.
I read some of the books that included the figure while doing research for a book (a fantasy culture based on the Barbary pirates) and the 1-2 million was over the course of centuries.
And Europe didn't have a choice but to put up with it--for much of the time, the European states were too weak to deal with it, and other times, the pirates were too useful as potential allies in war for the European states to obliterate them.
Plus it wasn't just ship-catching--the corsairs would also conduct raids on-shore. One account I read involved a fisherman whose wife left him for another man ("a fishwife Helen") and how he "turned Turk to extract his revenge."
With his help, the corsairs raided the village and carried off a lot of people.