What if the Western Schism hadn't happened?

(WARNING) This article is made for purely speculative and leisure purposes, not written by a historian, nor does it have the intention of insulting people, religions, governments.

Thank you to eliamartin65 and Mildryth for correnting some innacuracies. This version has been edit to absorb your criticism.

1. The Schism before the Schism: the Byzantines

- It is important that the Byzantines help the Pope, so Amalric, the lord of Tire does not depose his brother in Cyprus with the help of the Templars in 1306. The Hospitallers also do not invade Byzantium and do not capture Rhodes. It is important that the Easterners are not hostile to the knights of the West. It is important that the Schism of the East did not occur at all. Christianity would not fragment in 1054 at this timeline, although tensions remained, only lower. The Filioque doctrine is accepted by the Orthodox, in a much more elaborate and complex formula to satisfy theologians on both sides, eliminating ambiguities. The use of leavened and unleavened bread is permitted, depending on the rite, in a truce. The pentarchy accepts the supremacy of the Pope, but numerous Eastern cardinals are incorporated to appease everybody. Without the Eastern Schism, the massacre of the Latins in 1182 would not happen, with a greater presence and dialogue between the two traditions. The Genoese, the Venetian and the Pisan would be much better assimilated, but there would still remain some tensions. In the Fourth Crusade events such as the sacks of Zara, Thessalonica and Byzantium will either not happen, or be heavily punished by Rome.

-The architecture of Catholic Churches is transformed into a "Byzantine Gothic" style, Icons become popular along with stained glass windows, the academic and liturgical use of Slavonic grows competing with Latin and Greek. As "Russian" Churches also adopt hybrid characteristics, we can imagine a Saint Basil's Cathedral more similar to our Notre Dame.

2. The kidnapping of the Pope and the French Defeat

2.1. Battle and Wine

- Philip Le Bel still tries to kidnap the Pope, but not Clement V in 1309, rather Boniface VIII in 1303 from his residence in Anagni. Shortly after he was kidnaped, Boniface was struck in the face by Guillaume de Nogaret, and he was beaten and mistreated for three days. He was old and ended up dying. I don't think the death was incidental: you do not treat a prisoner Pope you are willing to set free like that. So Boniface cannot be under the "care" of the French for long. I really don't know why the Pope was so close to the enemy without proper guard. To scape this situation without dying, the Pope would need a guard of Byzantines and Templars to prevent the kidnapping or ambush the enemies right after. Philip Le Bel would not take the fall for a botched kidnapping, he would throw others conspirators like Guillaume de Nogaret and most of the Colonna family under the bus to deny involvement . He would demand the criminals to be delivered to French jurisdiction, but Boniface would not leave their destinies to the gibbet de Montfaucon: they are burned at the stake in a similar way in which, in our reality, the templars would burn. The Châteauneuf du Pape du Pape wine does not have this name, or does not gain the projection it had, as the Antipope of Avignon does not reign.

- Everybody knows Philip was the brain behind the operation, but the words of desperate convicts disavowed by their king are not enough to wage war openly, the Capetian dinasty is too powerful to depose for the moment. That doesn't mean that the Pope does not try to indirect approaches. Philip tried during the whole of his actual reign to undermine all of the other competing powers in France: expelling the Jews, burning the Templars, and encroaching on the power of clerics and feudal lords. The pope would ask (demand) from Philip that the Templars and Byzantines be rewarded for saving his life and rooting out "traitors that were endangering most loyal Philip reign". Philip would grudgingly concede the smaller and worse lands, but it still would vex him and weaken his reign. The French King does not expel the Jews from France in 1306. It may seem counterintuitive. However, he still distrusts the power of the Templars bankers and is unhappy with their closeness with the Pope. French Jews will become much richer, this will influence the future. Feudal lords sons are honored with special positions within Rome. If Philip has no influence towards the Pope, the Templars would not have been persecuted in France, Boniface was friendlier with the order. The Chinon Parchments indicate that they were innocent of heresy. After Philip dies, the Nesle's Tower succession crisis hits way harder the Capetian dinasty. Louis X is married of to a Byzantine Princess, and his brother Philip The Tall to the daughter of a Templar Knight, related to the Pope. France is split in two kingdoms for the two princes, client states.

2.2. New Archbishop, same Pope. For now

- On this alternate reality Benedict XI (Nicola Boccasini, cardinal loyal to Boniface whose pontificate lasted only three months) and Clement V (Raymond Bertrand de Got, personal friend of Philip) are not elected as Popes, the next five popes are Eastern: two Greeks, two Russians and one Arab. France has fallen from Grace. Boniface does not trust Raymond anymore, neither as Archbishop of Bordeaux, nor as his Chaplain. He is informally exiled as a monk. Nicola takes his place, and since Nogaret who was suspected of poisoning him is toast now, I like to think he fares better as an archbishop than he did as pope. Boniface would not last much longer, he was old and would only survive for two or three years without the beating that claimed his life.

2.3. The Inheritance of Edward the II

In our reality, Benedict XI obtained an armistice between the Philip Le Bel and Edward I Longshanks. I don’t t think this armistice would be that easy on this reality. Firstly because Edward sees a weaker Philip. Secondly because the kings of England would fear the ever larger power of a Byzantine Papacy and the Templars in France, who can also count with jewish money.

Longshanks had expelled the Jews in 1290, and England prouded itself of being free of jews. Well, this pride does not work that well anymore. Also, since Longshanks has to deal with a Scotish War… He has a lot on his plate.

I don’t expect Edward to recognize the independence of Scotland, but in this reality he spares Robert the Bruce, William Wallace and other Scottish leaders, and gives them a position on his parlament. They will have a say on the parlament as long as Scotland puts a lid on all this “independence nonsense”. Longshanks is more afraid of the powers outside the Island.

His Son, Edward the II marries into Scott nobility to secure stability, and grants permissions for the jews to come back… only to the land of Wales.

2.4. Thomism, Palamism, Hesichast popes and all the schisms.

One theological tension between the Orthodox and tha Catholic is the Palamist and Scholastic controversy. Scholastic reception of pagan phillsophy draw suspicion of the eastern, and Palamist distinction between God’s Being and Energy, as well as the search for a mystical experience through hesichasm, made westerners distrust the eastern fidelity to Divine Simplicity (Christian Doctrine that God is not made of diferent parts) and made eastern thought seem magical.

With the Popes being eastern, Palamism becomes widespread and Scholastics are regarded with some suspicion. Ironically, at the borders of Christianity, close to Islamic kingdoms, Aquinas and Anselm of Canterbury become more popular among missionaries, for their apeal to extra-scriptural resources like philosophy or Logic.

There are several minor schisms in italy, mainly in Pisa, were a third anti-pope arised with the Avignon schism of our time line. The election of the greek popes happen at times of tension, to bring conciliation with Aristotelian efforts of thomistic scholars.

3. Without a Schism… earlier and more violent muslim invasions. And a later eastern Schism.

The Schism itself was not the whole of the Avignon captivity. It arose from it when Gregory the XI died and Urban IV was elected already back in Rome. His pontificate was somewhat unpopular, and Clement VII was elected anti-pope in Avignon. This situation persisted until the Council of Constance. At this reality the papacy of Avignon does not persist, so once Urban IV is elected, the claims of antipopes are most likely to come from within the Byzantines or from Pisa. I am still not sure how it would transpire.

- As the Byzantines were busy rescuing the Pope, they were unable to resist the Saracens in the East with the same vigor. These anticipate their conquests, in a more aggressive and sudden way than what happened in our timeline, to establish a more solid domain in a short time. The colossal majority of Christian men in the East are quickly executed, without the chance to convert to Islam, given the urgency. Islamic settlers are sent to Jerusalem and other cities with their families or single to marry widowed Christian women and replace the population.

- As news take time to arrive, when Byzantine soldiers are informed by the Empire, Islamic rule over the Holy Land, despite being recent, is very solid. The Empire asks the Pope for help, and the Crusades further mobilize the Christian populations of Europe. I don't know exactly how this would influence the scenario of the Crusades, but considering that the East and West are on a united front against the Muslims, Jerusalem is retaken faster than in the first Crusade in our timeline. I believe, however, that other crusades take place.

4. The Lutheran-French Reformation

4.1. Martin Luther makes a run for it

- Luther still tries to promote his theses, but he is not successful in completely converting the Northern German Kingdoms, at least not immediately. The noblemen of these German kingdoms do not feel confident in facing the Pope, the Byzantines and the Templars. Luther flees to France. His words resonate much more there. Several regions of France become Lutheran, absorbing several northern German kingdoms, some voluntarily and others not. The Franco-Germanic Lutherans send emissaries to all kingdoms dissatisfied with Rome. Some Venetian, Genoese and Pisan families do not profess Lutheran sympathies publicly, but send soldiers and money in secret. Netherlands and England convert to Lutheranism (the English Kings already had tendencies towards Caesaropapism before Henry the Eighth, as seen at the martyrdom of Saint Thomas Becket). Catalonia and the Basque Country join the Lutherans in revenge against the Spanish Crown, while the region of Provence allies itself with the Catholics and Byzantines, in revenge against the French Crown, now Lutheran.

4.2. Lutheran Bauernkrieg against high-nobility

During the Lutheran Reform of the real timeline, radical groups of proto-anabaptists started revolting against their German lords. Although Zwingli was somewhat sympathetic to their cause, Luther was not. To show his commitment to the German Nobility and a less radical view of the reformation, he preach against those peasants, and the rebellion was crushed with a massacre. In this reality the peasants are safe from Lutheran attacks because they join the native nobility on the attacks against the Templars, Byzantines and other foreigners high nobles. Not revolting against the German Princes friends to Luther as they did in our reality.

The Templars and Byzantines are aprehended, hanged, drawn and quartered in England, Netherlands and France for resisting the Reformed Kings. We can imagine larger Menonite comunities, called Zwinglians in this reality.

4.3. Battle of Lepanto and the League of Lutheran Crowns

- Just as in our timeline in the Battle of Lepanto, the Protestants supported the Muslims, I believe that these sympathies remain. The anti-Catholic sentiment of the new "League of Lutheran Crowns" (which now includes Sweden) foster their sympathies for the Saracens, to the point that they form an alliance with the Islamic Kingdoms, exchanging resources with each other such as soldiers and food. The Spanish Navy's confrontation with the English Navy is much bloodier, but now includes Saracen and Byzantine ships. Cardinal Richiliaeu (in this reality Pastor Richiliaeu) still gains prominence. He is the one who makes agreements diplomatically (in our reality he supported the French Huguenots against the Catholic Habsburgs). England establishes a corridor in the Aragon region, linking Catalonia and the Basque Country to consolidate a Lutheran kingdom in Spain (Hussitia) a client of France.

4.3. Formation of Modern Nations

- The constant war between the Western-Byzantine alliance and the Lutheran-Islamic alliance delays, or perhaps even prevents the formation of National States as it happened in our time. Smaller empires and kingdoms remain. To appease the tension with the Italians who envy Byzantine prominence, the Pope establishes treaties in which he donates part of the Land of the Papal States, which continue to exist as a country to this day in this reality, not as small as the Vatican, nor as large as it once was.

5. Jewish and Chinese

5.1. A Jewish Kingdom and a Chinese Empire

- Although anti-semitism still exists, in a state of constant war few nations take the trouble to expel Jewish merchants and bankers from their territory. These lent money to both sides of the conflict (mainly the Lutherans) and became rich at levels never seen before, gaining even more influence, coming to dominate the Netherlands, which became a Jewish Monarchy. The Chinese remain relatively neutral, trading with the Byzantine Russians and the Muslims. The European Crisis injects a lot of money into the Chinese Empire in a shaky alliance with Japan) helping it against a Byzantine invasion (like the Russo-Japanese war happened in our line but several years earlier).

5.2. India versus China versus Mongols

- China establishes peace with the Japanese, Koreans and Southeast Asia (founded in the interest of all of them not to fall under the influence of Roman Byzantine Christianity, nor the Islamic-Lutheran Alliance). China has economic and cultural dominance over most of Asia, with the exception of the Mongol khanates, with wars, invasions and looting, resisting the triduum of Buddhism-Confucianism-Shintoism that forms Chinese identity in favor of Tengrism and other local Shamanist religions. The Byzantines (in secret) supply weapons and food to the Mongols, which allows their Khanates to avoid the complete domination of China in that region. The muslims through the portion of India that fell under Islamic rule (Bangladesh and Pakistan in our time-line) adopt a similar posture. They pretend they don't know, China pretends they don't see it, and they continue to trade feeling this tension. The portion of India that did not become Islamized, resisting as Hindus, enters a Mongol Alliance (as Southeast Asia also did later) after asking for help from the Chinese and being refused. The Chinese (now the Sino-Japanese United Empires), mirroring what the British did in the eastern US, will establish colonies in Hawaii and throughout the West Coast down the line.

6. The Americas

6.1. Two Mexicos, and a Templar Kingdom in Ireland

The Lutherans help the Aztecs against the Spanish, who form an alliance with the Tlaxcaltecas. Mexico is then divided into two countries: Sacramento and Melanchtonia. Anti-Catholic sentiment in England soars, leading to a war with Ireland, which adopts guerrilla tactics, receiving support in the war and recovery from Roman Byzantine Christianity. Ireland becomes a thorn in the side of the English Lutheran Empire, being financed by the Templars, with several of them in its crown.

6.2. Templar Brazil, Asian tax collectors, Confucian Freemasons

- Brazil is still colonized by Portugal, but as the Templars were not dissolved, the Order of Christ does not inherit their material and spiritual prestige, nor their assets. This means that the King of Portugal dominates not in the name of the Order of Christ, but rather of the Templars. It is their Cross that on the caravels sails. With the tension of the Wars in Europe, taxes will be heavier on the colonies, part of the collection structure depending greatly on favors from neutral agents (China and Japan). These will support the independence of several dissatisfied colonies, in a very strange mix of Freemason republicanism with Chinese/Japanese influences. As the Templars were not exterminated, De Molay was not executed, and the Freemasons do not adopt their symbolism. Freemasonry still exists, along with other esoteric orders, but it doesn't receive much Jewish support either, because they are more prosperous in this timeline, and avoid mixing with Gentiles. Freemasonry, however, receives a lot of French and Asian influence, having much more Buddhist, Shinto and Confucian symbols and rites.

England still colonizes North America, and together with France establishes colonies throughout the American coast and in Canada. For obvious reasons, Hispanic colonies like Texas, California or Florida will no longer be part of the USA. England cedes land to its Islamic allies on the border with the Hispanic colonies, functioning as a buffer. The Jewish kingdom of Holland, allied with the French diaspora, buys not only the island of Manhattan, but the region where the entire city of New York and New Jersey exist, a small colony called "New Judah".

7. Conclusion: what do you think?

- From here I don't know how the story unfolds. I really can't say how African nations would be affected, nor Oceania. Industrialization would occur more strongly in Asia. The time of the Old Wild West would happen not only with the Anglo-Americans, but with Chinese-American and Japanese-American settlers. Would it be a Race to the East, with Samurai-Cowboys meeting Natives? I don't know. My conclusions end here. I hope I have entertained you. Remembering that I'm not a historian, and I don't want to offend anyone, just have fun imagining.
 
Last edited:
Without the grand master's delay, Pope Clement V does not have time to discuss the accusations against the Templars. It is also important that the union of these two orders sends soldiers to help the French king in his war against the English.

The whole proposal to merge the orders came about two years after that war had ended, and in any case, it'd be questionable, at least, to use a monastic order to fight a fellow Christian monarch, especially when there are not even any claims of heresy around him.

The Templars do not retaliate in the fourth crusade, Thessalonica and Constantinople are not sacked, flourishing.

The Templars weren't even involved in that Crusade. What happened is that the Crusader army, in the process of arranging the transportation, got themselves indebted up to the neck to the Venetians and needed to pay their debts. First they sacked Zara for the Venetians, and after that, got tangled into a court conspiracy in Constantinople, in which they were promised much-needed money and military help for the Crusade, but after eight months, the guy who hired them was dead, and the new emperor couldn't pay them off either, and they saw that the only way they'd get paid was going out and taking it...

Instead of marrying his daughter to Philip the Handsome in 1308, the English King Edward II is much more anxious about Philip's power allied with the Templars, and marries his daughter to a Spanish prince.

Homeboy, it was the other way around - Philip married his daughter to Edward II.

Felipe (the Handsome) still kidnaps the pope

And that was also years before the events you described before (and presumably happen before this on your concept) happen.
 
Last edited:
The whole proposal to merge the orders came about two years after that war had ended, and in any case, it'd be questionable, at least, to use a monastic order to fight a fellow Christian monarch, especially when there are not even any claims of heresy around him.



The Templars weren't even involved in that Crusade. What happened is that the Crusader army, in the process of arranging the transportation, got themselves indebted up to the neck to the Venetians and needed to pay their debts. First they sacked Zara for the Venetians, and after that, got tangled into a court conspiracy in Constantinople, in which they were promised much-needed money and military help for the Crusade, but after eight months, the guy who hired them was dead, and the new emperor couldn't pay them off either, and they saw that the only way they'd get paid was going out and taking it...



Homeboy, it was the other way around - Philip married his daughter to Edward II.



And that was also years before the events you described before (and presumably happen before this on your concept) happen.
Thanks Dude. I will try to fix it. what do you think about the rest? was it fun? This is my first attempt on a major alternative time line.
 
Top