What if the Hays Code as we know it never came to be?

[Pat the Baker]

There was a surprising amount of creative freedom in late 1920s and early 1930s Hollywood. While the content itself is mostly rather tame by today's standards, it can still be surprising to see Golden Age movies with that sort of thing. To give a few examples, Little Caesar is about a gangster named Rico who's heavily implied to have romantic feelings for his male best friend, a reporter gives a politician the middle finger in The Front Page, Waterloo Bridge features Mae Clarke as a hooker with a heart of gold, someone drops an F-bomb in the original Scarface, Mary Stevens, M.D. is about a woman who has a child with a man who's married to somebody else, and Design for Living has a love triangle that gets resolved with polyamory.

And before you say anything, yes, all of these were mainstream movies from major studios.

Of course, this didn't last. 1930 saw the introduction of the Motion Picture Production Code, better known as the Hays Code, which was intended to "clean up" Hollywood; 1934 saw it receive more serious and consistent enforcement. While the code failed to completely crack down on what was considered inappropriate for film, it was nevertheless stifling for creative freedom. Times would change, however, and the 1950s saw the code increasingly challenged, resulting in it being loosened in 1956. In 1968, as the era of New Hollywood was hitting its stride, the code would be scrapped entirely and replaced with the MPAA rating system.

But let's say the Code never comes to be. Maybe there's a SCOTUS case sometime in the early 30s that results in movies being considered entitled to First Amendment protections. What changes?

 

[Marco Incognito]

You may want to read this:

The Pierce-Arrow Stalled, and ... - a short story by by Kim Newman

 

[CourtlyHades296]

As soon as film noir arrives on the scene, we see more examples of films where the criminal gets away with their crimes. Nightmare Alley retains the novel's bleak ending and Lilith getting away with her crimes.

 

[Nivek]

There was a surprising amount of creative freedom in late 1920s and early 1930s Hollywood. While the content itself is mostly rather tame by today's standards, it can still be surprising to see Golden Age movies with that sort of thing. To give a few examples, Little Caesar is about a gangster named Rico who's heavily implied to have romantic feelings for his male best friend, a reporter gives a politician the middle finger in The Front Page, Waterloo Bridge features Mae Clarke as a hooker with a heart of gold, someone drops an F-bomb in the original Scarface, Mary Stevens, M.D. is about a woman who has a child with a man who's married to somebody else, and Design for Living has a love triangle that gets resolved with polyamory.

And before you say anything, yes, all of these were mainstream movies from major studios.

Of course, this didn't last. 1930 saw the introduction of the Motion Picture Production Code, better known as the Hays Code, which was intended to "clean up" Hollywood; 1934 saw it receive more serious and consistent enforcement. While the code failed to completely crack down on what was considered inappropriate for film, it was nevertheless stifling for creative freedom. Times would change, however, and the 1950s saw the code increasingly challenged, resulting in it being loosened in 1956. In 1968, as the era of New Hollywood was hitting its stride, the code would be scrapped entirely and replaced with the MPAA rating system.

But let's say the Code never comes to be. Maybe there's a SCOTUS case sometime in the early 30s that results in movies being considered entitled to First Amendment protections. What changes?

Maybe earlier rating system so the more questionable themes are pushed to the higher ratings and the tamer one to families/etc

 

[PhilKearny]

There was a surprising amount of creative freedom in late 1920s and early 1930s Hollywood. While the content itself is mostly rather tame by today's standards, it can still be surprising to see Golden Age movies with that sort of thing. To give a few examples, Little Caesar is about a gangster named Rico who's heavily implied to have romantic feelings for his male best friend, a reporter gives a politician the middle finger in The Front Page, Waterloo Bridge features Mae Clarke as a hooker with a heart of gold, someone drops an F-bomb in the original Scarface, Mary Stevens, M.D. is about a woman who has a child with a man who's married to somebody else, and Design for Living has a love triangle that gets resolved with polyamory.

And before you say anything, yes, all of these were mainstream movies from major studios.

Of course, this didn't last. 1930 saw the introduction of the Motion Picture Production Code, better known as the Hays Code, which was intended to "clean up" Hollywood; 1934 saw it receive more serious and consistent enforcement. While the code failed to completely crack down on what was considered inappropriate for film, it was nevertheless stifling for creative freedom. Times would change, however, and the 1950s saw the code increasingly challenged, resulting in it being loosened in 1956. In 1968, as the era of New Hollywood was hitting its stride, the code would be scrapped entirely and replaced with the MPAA rating system.

But let's say the Code never comes to be. Maybe there's a SCOTUS case sometime in the early 30s that results in movies being considered entitled to First Amendment protections. What changes?

Gunga Din shows the criminals get away with their crimes, but the criminals are made out to be the heroes due to prejudices of the era against Southeast Asians.

 

[Dancing Fool]

Gunga Din shows the criminals get away with their crimes, but the criminals are made out to be the heroes due to prejudices of the era against Southeast Asians.

And I think people in general like movies about organized crime, and about reciprocal loyalty and at times shifting alliances.

For example, I like the following scene from the Godfather —

Michael Corleone shows up at the hospital to find his wounded father alone. Apparently, the corrupt police captain has arrested the body guards clearing the way for a rival gang to “finish the job.”

Michael calls his father’s men, and those guys hit the cars fast, but they’re still about 40 minutes away.

Michael says to the nurse that they must move his father’s bed. But the nurse says, Oh, no, he can’t be moved. Michael says, Men with guns will come to kill my father, Please help me.

He hears footsteps.

But it’s Enzo the Baker coming to pay his respects. He tells Enzo there might be trouble, but Enzo offers to stay and help. The two of them stand in front of the hospital with their hands under their coat signifying a gun. A car slows, but then it drives away. Michael tells Enzo that he’s done good.

The corrupt police captain shows up and has Michael hit. Twice.

Then Vito’s men show up in at least three cars. And we get this line from Tom Hagen, who’s the family’s lawyer:

“I'm an attorney for the Corleone family. These men are private detectives hired to protect Vito Corleone. They are licensed to carry firearms. If you interfere you'll have to appear before a judge in the morning and show cause.”

I mean, to wield that kind of power, that effectively.

Yes, it’s appealing.

The Godfather (1972) - IMDb

The Godfather (1972) Robert Duvall as Tom Hagen

www.imdb.com

***************************

So, without the crappy Hays Code, we have more good movies. And we have them earlier.

 

[Gabingston]

And I think people in general like movies about organized crime, and about reciprocal loyalty and at times shifting alliances.

For example, I like the following scene from the Godfather —

Michael Corleone shows up at the hospital to find his wounded father alone. Apparently, the corrupt police captain has arrested the body guards clearing the way for a rival gang to “finish the job.”

Michael calls his father’s men, and those guys hit the cars fast, but they’re still about 40 minutes away.

Michael says to the nurse that they must move his father’s bed. But the nurse says, Oh, no, he can’t be moved. Michael says, Men with guns will come to kill my father, Please help me.

He hears footsteps.

But it’s Enzo the Baker coming to pay his respects. He tells Enzo there might be trouble, but Enzo offers to stay and help. The two of them stand in front of the hospital with their hands under their coat signifying a gun. A car slows, but then it drives away. Michael tells Enzo that he’s done good.

The corrupt police captain shows up and has Michael hit. Twice.

Then Vito’s men show up in at least three cars. And we get this line from Tom Hagen, who’s the family’s lawyer:

“I'm an attorney for the Corleone family. These men are private detectives hired to protect Vito Corleone. They are licensed to carry firearms. If you interfere you'll have to appear before a judge in the morning and show cause.”

I mean, to wield that kind of power, that effectively.

Yes, it’s appealing.

The Godfather (1972) - IMDb

The Godfather (1972) Robert Duvall as Tom Hagen

www.imdb.com

***************************

So, without the crappy Hays Code, we have more good movies. And we have them earlier.

I mean, there are plenty of acclaimed movies like The Wizard of Oz, Citizen Kane and Casablanca that came out during the era of the Hays Code.

 

[Hulkster'01]

Wonder what those boys at Termite Terrace would do with more creative freedom. (TT was Warner Bros first animation department, where Looney Tunes was born)

 

[Ninja2006]

Wonder what those boys at Termite Terrace would do with more creative freedom. (TT was Warner Bros first animation department, where Looney Tunes was born)

Right, we could have had a different animation field.

Imagine if adult animation was as popular, if not, more popular than youth animation by the turn of the century?

 

[Pat the Baker]

Right, we could have had a different animation field.

Imagine if adult animation was as popular, if not, more popular than youth animation by the turn of the century?

I thought animation's "just for kids" stigma was a by-product of factors related to TV cartoons.

 

[Ninja2006]

I thought animation's "just for kids" stigma was a by-product of factors related to TV cartoons.

Right, but we could kill that in the process too.

 

[Godot]

Wonder what those boys at Termite Terrace would do with more creative freedom. (TT was Warner Bros first animation department, where Looney Tunes was born)

Right, we could have had a different animation field.

Imagine if adult animation was as popular, if not, more popular than youth animation by the turn of the century?

I don't really think either would be of much impact. Actual filmmaking blossomed into a serious art form even within the code, animation did not. I don't think the failure of animation to have much appeal beyond children. There was no Citizen Kane for cartoons, for instance. I seriously doubt removing the code would do much more than make already-strange stuff like Betty Boop more risque.

 

[Godot]

But let's say the Code never comes to be. Maybe there's a SCOTUS case sometime in the early 30s that results in movies being considered entitled to First Amendment protections. What changes?

Have always regarded the impacts of the code as kind of overdone and a bit Amerocentric. While restrictions existed there are some wonderfully strange and envelope-pushing cinema that emerged in France and Germany that pushed the medium forward as an art form. Beyond that as others have stated the code merely tamped down on select elements of cinema (certain themes, background elements, etc), none of which mattered as much as the broad strokes which cinema exhibited as it grew out of its roots in theatre into a distinct art form

 

[BeardedHoplite]

While the Code has a reputation as something that was forced onto innocent creatives, it came from Hollywood, who was facing an upswell of popular outrage against the content in their movies.

Without it, I don't think you really change much, and this comes from someone who really does enjoy pre-code cinema. You might get a few more risque jokes and morally grey situations, but one only has to look at the Noir boom of the mid to late 40s to get that.

You won't get the new hollywood period or boobs on mainstream film 20 years early or anything like that

 

[Hulkster'01]

I don't really think either would be of much impact. Actual filmmaking blossomed into a serious art form even within the code, animation did not. I don't think the failure of animation to have much appeal beyond children. There was no Citizen Kane for cartoons, for instance. I seriously doubt removing the code would do much more than make already-strange stuff like Betty Boop more risque.

I just want to hear Daffy Duck say fuck, is that too much to ask?! /s

 

[Ninja2006]

I don't really think either would be of much impact. Actual filmmaking blossomed into a serious art form even within the code, animation did not. I don't think the failure of animation to have much appeal beyond children. There was no Citizen Kane for cartoons, for instance. I seriously doubt removing the code would do much more than make already-strange stuff like Betty Boop more risque.

Well, they wouldn't know unless they tried it.

 

[Ninja2006]

I just want to hear Daffy Duck say fuck, is that too much to ask?! /s

Right man!

 

[Godot]

Well, they wouldn't know unless they tried it.

I mean, artistically worthwhile and bold pieces of animation *have* been made. Just not, largely speaking, in America or for mass audiences. Persepolis is a lovely work of animation and a favorite of mine, and stuff like David Lynch's animated works have been on my list for ages.

There's some grand stuff out of Japan as well, particular favorites of mine are the works of Satoshi Kon

 

[Godot]

I mean, artistically worthwhile and bold pieces of animation *have* been made. Just not, largely speaking, in America or for mass audiences. Persepolis is a lovely work of animation and a favorite of mine, and stuff like David Lynch's animated works have been on my list for ages.

There's some grand stuff out of Japan as well, particular favorites of mine are the works of Satoshi Kon

Forgot to mention the numerous works of Hungarian arthouse animation however have not yet seen them myself so can't vouch for them much beyond them being well regarded

 

[omnidirectional]

As I read, the Hays Code was self imposed by Hollywood under threat of a government censorship board for film due to controversial film content. So, with WWII round the corner, maybe some Department of Entertainment or Motion Picture Quality gets imposed and films get censored by Washington instead of Hollywood, which is a whole nother set of problems.

But I always found it amusingly dumb in old 40s/50s pictures when tough guys in high trousers and fedoras try to intimidate each other while talking like Ned Flanders, avoiding actual swearing.

Fast Talking High Trousers

But it was darned if you, darned if you don't with 30s/40s social conventions.