What if Maryland was founded in New England?

[kaos31]

Reading into the history of Maryland, I find the original purpose of the colony quite interesting, as it was meant to be a haven for Catholics and religious toleration. In OTL this did not last long and the colony was quickly overtaken by various protestant groups. This I believe was in part due to the proximity of Maryland to other English (& protestant) colonies such as Virginia and later New York.

For whatever reason, I've got it in my head that a catholic colony in New England, which would be further away from English colonies in 1632, would fare far better.

So, in a world where for whatever reason the Pilgrims either don't/fail to settle New England and it is left open to Lord Calvert in 1632, how would the fortunes of Maryland fare? And what consequences would a Catholic New England have for America?

 

[raharris1973]

Reading into the history of Maryland, I find the original purpose of the colony quite interesting, as it was meant to be a haven for Catholics and religious toleration. In OTL this did not last long and the colony was quickly overtaken by various protestant groups. This I believe was in part due to the proximity of Maryland to other English (& protestant) colonies such as Virginia and later New York.

For whatever reason, I've got it in my head that a catholic colony in New England, which would be further away from English colonies in 1632, would fare far better.

So, in a world where for whatever reason the Pilgrims either don't/fail to settle New England and it is left open to Lord Calvert in 1632, how would the fortunes of Maryland fare? And what consequences would a Catholic New England have for America?

Not having the Pilgrim Calvinists, and then presumably the Puritan Calvinists mass migrate to New England is a huge change for Anglo-American culture. A New England that is instead a 'Maryland' colony and Catholic tolerant would be a different beast from OTL's New England, theoretically with a chance of less hostile relations down the line with New France, but with just as conflictual relationship as any other English colony with New Netherlands.

Since New England is no agricultural powerhouse at all, whatever the sectarian make-up of its population, Catholic in some proportion, I would expect its people to be drawn by necessity to forestry and maritime pursuits and some fur trade while that lasts. Catholic English merchants, New England based, may have somewhat less hostile reception in French and Spanish colonial markets.

 

[Enigmajones]

Wasn’t Rhode Island essentially this IOTL? IIRC it was founded on religious freedom. Could be misremembering though.

 

[kaos31]

Wasn’t Rhode Island essentially this IOTL? IIRC it was founded on religious freedom. Could be misremembering though.

It was OTL, but for the purposes of this thread it doesn't really work as New England was already decidedly puritan/Protestant by that point

 

[kaos31]

Not having the Pilgrim Calvinists, and then presumably the Puritan Calvinists mass migrate to New England is a huge change for Anglo-American culture.

I wouldn't necessarily eliminate All Puritan settlers as OTL Maryland ended up having many Puritans as there were never any laws barring non-catholics from settling, although in this TL I would imagine the number of Puritans in Maryland/NE to be much much lower

 

[raharris1973]

I wouldn't necessarily eliminate All Puritan settlers as OTL Maryland ended up having many Puritans as there were never any laws barring non-catholics from settling, although in this TL I would imagine the number of Puritans in Maryland/NE to be much much lower

Yeah, there's nothing exclusive, but even having the Calvinists be non-hegemonic at first and not setting up all the initial town charters is a huge change. And a possible middle path is they come in large enough numbers they overwhelm the Catholics, usurp political power, and actually undo toleration, as happened in Maryland after 50 years, which would be sort of convergent with OTL Maryland history.

 

[kaos31]

Yeah, there's nothing exclusive, but even having the Calvinists be non-hegemonic at first and not setting up all the initial town charters is a huge change. And a possible middle path is they come in large enough numbers they overwhelm the Catholics, usurp political power, and actually undo toleration, as happened in Maryland after 50 years, which would be sort of convergent with OTL Maryland history.

The middle path is something I hope to avoid lest it just becomes New England anyway.

But IIRC the majority of Protestants in early OTL Maryland either were kicked out/came from Virginia, so in this TL I'd imagine most would not arrive in NE/Maryland and would perhaps arrive in some other colony which takes the place of OTL Maryland.

 

[Valentinian]

To make it work, you could pair it with the Puritans' intention to go to Virginia and actually making it there. If there are Catholic majorities in the north of North America and Protestant majorities in the South, alt-Maryland may identify more with the French Quebecois than their English Protestant cousins. A New England Maryland-Quebec multinational Catholic state would be a weird and wild timeline.

 

[kaos31]

To make it work, you could pair it with the Puritans' intention to go to Virginia and actually making it there. If there are Catholic majorities in the north of North America and Protestant majorities in the South, alt-Maryland may identify more with the French Quebecois than their English Protestant cousins. A New England Maryland-Quebec multinational Catholic state would be a weird and wild timeline.

While it would be interesting, I don't know how realistic this would be.

The historical Maryland itself never showed anything but loyalty to the crown historically, notably through the English Civil Wars, as the Calverts themselves were quite loyal to the crown and viewed themselves as proper Englishmen despite not subscribing to the Church of England.

Not too mention religion itself was not always able to unite different ethnic groups. In Bytown/Ottawa in Canada for example there were conflicts between Irish Catholics and French Catholics in the 1830s and 40s, most notably the shiners war. Not too mention that England's historic rivalry with France was well established before the reformation.

 

[TimTurner]

Imagine if you had Puritan Massachusetts and Catholic Maryland right next door to each other...

 

[kaos31]

Imagine if you had Puritan Massachusetts and Catholic Maryland right next door to each other...

In this TL i'd imagine that Massachussetts be under the jurisdiction of a Catholic Maryland/New England, altough I'd imagine many Puritans would end up there anyway.

 

[Malta]

In this TL i'd imagine that Massachussetts be under the jurisdiction of a Catholic Maryland/New England, altough I'd imagine many Puritans would end up there anyway.

Well, Lord Baltimore’s original colony of Avalon wasn’t that far away being situated on Newfoundland.

A POD for this isn’t that hard. Just have the Pilgrims decide to go with their original plan to settle in the Hudson Valley under the aegis of Dutch New n Netherlands.

 

[MDSiapno]

So, in a world where for whatever reason the Pilgrims either don't/fail to settle New England and it is left open to Lord Calvert in 1632, how would the fortunes of Maryland fare? And what consequences would a Catholic New England have for America?

Or Catholic Thirteen Colonies, but that sounds unrealistic...

 

[PGSBHurricane]

The best POD would be for the Pilgrims to end up in Virginia (which was 34-41 degrees North), or more specifically the mouth of the Hudson River. This could possibly mean that the Dutch decide to set up camp in the Delaware Bay instead, leaving New England available for Lord Baltimore and essentially transforming it into a pro-Catholic New England.

 

[kaos31]

The best POD would be for the Pilgrims to end up in Virginia (which was 34-41 degrees North), or more specifically the mouth of the Hudson River. This could possibly mean that the Dutch decide to set up camp in the Delaware Bay instead, leaving New England available for Lord Baltimore and essentially transforming it into a pro-Catholic New England.

Doesn't even necessarily have to butterfly a Dutch New York as OTL the Pilgrims had plans to either settle in Dutch Guiana or even to settle the Hudson River on behalf of the Dutch. It also has to be noted that there was a Dutch settlement further inland on the Hudson River since 1614 in the form of Fort Nassau.

 

[kaos31]

Moving the thread along, in terms of the survival of Maryland as a Catholic/tolerant colony, the historical Maryland had a series of protestant (mainly puritan) migrations as well as conflicts with these groups which resulted in the Protestant revolution of 1690, with much being tied to events across the pond as well. It would be interesting to see how much of this would change or stay them same ITTL.

To begin, there had been a protestant presence in Maryland since the first landing in 1632, as many of the colonists were themselves Anglicans. However, this was done under Cecilius Calvert, 2nd Lord Baltimore, following the death of George Calvert, 1st Lord Baltimore. The latter, as demonstrated by his first colony in Avalon, had a goal of creating a refuge for persecuted Irish and English Catholics, and not necessarily the haven of toleration that Maryland became. So perhaps if Lord Baltimore had settled New England and not Newfoundland in 1621, there would have been an established Catholic majority by the time of his death.

In any case, the first true challenges to a catholic Maryland are in context to the English Civil War, first with the plundering time in which Privateers raided the colony and looted the property of those who did not support the English Parliament (mainly catholics). Although it must be noted that this was caused in large part by an existing territorial conflict with Virginia. Puritans would actually seize control of Maryland for a short while in 1655 following the Battle of the Severn. How much of this would or wouldn't have happened ITTL im not entirely sure, but I'd believe that civil war would have found its way to NE/Maryland.

Tensions would then remain until 1690 when following the Glorious Revolution in England, Puritans in Maryland staged their own, after which they essentially outlawed Catholicism.

Assuming that Calvert's original plan for a refuge for Catholicism were put in place, possibly resulting in a larger catholic presence even if protestants end up making their way, or at least enough that Protestants werent a majority by 1690, I'd believe that Maryland could survive at least up until 1776 as a primarily catholic colony.

 

[kaos31]

Following 1690 is where things are a bit more difficult to predict, as there is no catholic Maryland to base the 1700s on, and New England sees its own important changes during this timeframe as well.

For one, the population of New England as a whole was ~100,000 in 1700, but would reach 1 million by 1790. Assuming a NE/Maryland takes over this whole area (perhaps minus Maine), I'd doubt that Maryland would see such growth ITTL. 100,000 in 1700 is more realistic IMO, perhaps with a 60/40 - 75/25 Catholic/Protestant split (so a max of 75,000 Catholics in the colony (OTL there were only around 30,000 in all of America in 1776). It was only really in the mid-to-late 1800s that Catholics began immigrating in big numbers. Assuming a large campaign to bring in Catholics from not only Great Britain & Ireland, but other Protestant countries in Europe, I'd have to wager that perhaps 500,000-600,000 being the max Maryland could grow in this time frame.

Other important points to note are the many French and Indian Wars that occurred during this time, as a less populous New England/Maryland would be more dependent on England for security. Another factor is the anti-Catholicism that was prevalent in the 13 colonies during this time frame, as one of the many catalysts for the ARW OTL was the 1774 Quebec act which granted freedom of religion to French Catholics in Quebec. This could then put Maryland into a different position than the OTL New England, as they may be more inclined to side with the English in 1775.

 

[PGSBHurricane]

Doesn't even necessarily have to butterfly a Dutch New York as OTL the Pilgrims had plans to either settle in Dutch Guiana or even to settle the Hudson River on behalf of the Dutch. It also has to be noted that there was a Dutch settlement further inland on the Hudson River since 1614 in the form of Fort Nassau.

I didn't know that the Pilgrims intended to settle the Hudson River on behalf of the Dutch. I went into this assuming that the Pilgrims settling at Manhattan Island or somewhere nearby with approval from the Virginia Company which would butterfly New Netherland in the end, which could lead to a Catholic-dominated New England.

 

[kaos31]

I didn't know that the Pilgrims intended to settle the Hudson River on behalf of the Dutch. I went into this assuming that the Pilgrims settling at Manhattan Island or somewhere nearby with approval from the Virginia Company which would butterfly New Netherland in the end, which could lead to a Catholic-dominated New England.

There was only a proposition OTL, tho ITTL they could do anything from settling in modern-day Maryland to settling in Dutch Guyana IMO, as all that I feel is necessary for this NE/Maryland is really that no one settles there before. The presence of Dutchmen in New York I dont think is an issue, just like it wasnt really for the Puritans & Pilgrims in New England OTL