Was Operation Barbarossa a preventive invasion?

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I found this interview with a Wehrmacht general who explained that Hitler invaded the USSR because he feared communist expansion:
Q: Did you agree with Hitler's policies, particularly his policy toward Russia?

A: Regarding the military campaign against the Soviet Union:

First of all, it should be clearly understood that at the time of the Balkans campaign in Yugoslavia and Greece in early 1941, when we had ten divisions on the entire length of the Soviet border, the Russians had stationed 247 major military formations on our border. After the conclusion of the Balkans campaign, we then quickly placed at most 170 major military units on the border with the Soviet Union. The Russians had readied themselves for an attack.

The initial successes of our forces against the Soviets were due to the fact that the Russians were not stationed in defense positions, but were instead positioned right at the front for attack, which made it possible for us to quickly encircle large Soviet forces. Thus, in the first weeks of the war, we were able to capture more than three million prisoners of war as well as enormous quantities of war equipment, all of which was on the frontier, positioned for attack.

That's the truth of the matter, which can be proven. I recently spoke with a Mr. Pemsel, who was a long-range aerial reconnaissance pilot. In the period before the beginning of the Soviet campaign, he flew as far as the Don River and observed and reported on this enormous concentration of Soviet forces on the border.

I also know from my own experience in the Russian campaign, and with the Russian prisoners, about the preparations by the Soviets for an imminent attack against Europe. The Russians were hoping that we would move against Britain so that they could then take advantage of the situation to overrun Europe.

Q: Do you believe war with the Soviet Union was inevitable following Hitler and Molotov's meeting in November 1940?

A: Soviet Foreign Minister Molotov demanded the Dardanelles. That is, we were supposed to approve the turning over of foreign territory which belonged to the Turks. Molotov thus made provocative demands which simply could not be met. Hitler was also conscious of the Soviet takeover of territory in Romania, at a time of supposed peace. Hitler also knew that the anti-German uprising in Belgrade, Yugoslavia, was organized by the Soviets. It was the Russians who wrecked the relationship between Germany and the Soviet Union.

And after he received more and more reports of Soviet preparations for an attack against Germany and Europe, Hitler reacted. I am thus absolutely certain that Hitler did not originally plan to attack the Soviet Union. Instead, he acted as the changing situation demanded.

Q: Is it true that the Germans referred to the Russians as "subhumans"?

A: Nonsense! The Russians are human beings just like everyone else.

Your question, whether we called the Russians "subhumans," is nonsense. We had a first-class relationship with the Russian people. The only exception, which was a problem we dealt with, was with the Soviet Commissars, who were all Jews. These people stood behind the lines with machine guns, pushing the Russian soldiers into battle. And anyway, we made quick work of them. That was according to order. This was during a war for basic existence, an ideological war, when such a policy is simply taken for granted.

There was sometimes talk about the so-called Asian hordes, and ordinary soldiers sometimes spoke about subhumans, but such language was never officially used.
Source

This is actually also related to Hitler's post-Barbarossa speech

It seems clear that the Germans spread this view.

My question is, is it just propaganda? or was it a factor to take into account?
 
Yeah I don't think you should trust the word of a fucking Wehrmacht General. The invasion happened because of the German-Right's decades long obsession with a dream of genocidal expansion to the east in the name of so-called "living space".
 
I found this interview with a Wehrmacht general who explained that Hitler invaded the USSR because he feared communist expansion:

Source

This is actually also related to Hitler's post-Barbarossa speech

It seems clear that the Germans spread this view.

My question is, is it just propaganda? or was it a factor to take into account?
Well, the fuhrer directive 21 was issued 18 december 1940 , so you can discount the premise that it was a response on a Soviet buildup in april 1941. Unless of course Hitler was clairvoyant.
 
My question is, is it just propaganda? or was it a factor to take into account?

Both. Your question is framed in terms of Nazi generals, but look back at the problem in terms of modern neocon dogma. Neocons see everything in the world as zero sum games in which the enemy's intentions are dangerous and aggressive. Neocons see military solutions to everything as necessary and correct, and are incapable of understanding the implications or consequences of defeat until that defeat is actually happening. This German general is spouting the same nonsense, that the Straights were 'intolerable' to Germany, when the general should have been saying that losing a war to the Soviet Union under any circumstances should have been intolerable to Germany.
 
I found this interview with a Wehrmacht general who explained that Hitler invaded the USSR because he feared communist expansion:

Source

This is actually also related to Hitler's post-Barbarossa speech

It seems clear that the Germans spread this view.

My question is, is it just propaganda? or was it a factor to take into account?
Yes, it is propaganda.

Several more things about the source you linked:
1. Otto Ernst Remer was about as Nazi as a Wehrmacht officer can get. He played a major role in stopping the 20th July Plot and took command of Hitler's Wehrmacht bodyguard unit. In the postwar, he founded the first neo-Nazi political party in West Germany, for which he was exiled. He then spend the next several decades as a military advisor to various Arab states intent on destroying Israel, before returning to Germany in the 80s to start another neo-Nazi organization and publish articles denying the Holocaust. If there is any single example that dispels the myth of an apolitical Wehrmacht not touched by Nazism, Remer is that example.
2. The Institute for Historical Review openly denies the Holocaust. Most infamously, they offered a $50k reward for anyone who could provide evidence of gas chambers, and when an Auschwitz survivor pulled up with a signed testimony, the IHR denied the testimony and only paid when the survivor took the IHR to the courts and won $90k from them.

This source is a pile of steaming garbage, and Nazi ideology practically from the start demanded an invasion of the USSR.
 
It depends.

Was Stalin planning to invade eventually? Yes, I'm quite ... skeptical of the claims of Stalin being a peacenik.
Was he planning to invade right then and there? No. In fact that's why Operation Barbarossa was so initially successful. The Red Army had a massive pile of equipment but with hardly any real good officers or decent training and almost got consumed within the first year.
 
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Yeah I don't think you should trust the word of a fucking Wehrmacht General. The invasion happened because of the German-Right's decades long obsession with a dream of genocidal expansion to the east in the name of so-called "living space".
Well I guess it was preventative in the sense of “preventing Slavic peoples from living to next year”.
 
I didn't know, although the interview seems true

True as in the Nazi general said those words, yes, but as others have pointed out in this thread, Germany started planning for the war in December of 1940. And expansion into the 'lebensraum' was a major element of Nazi long-term strategy, regardless of what Stalin might have intended to do in the mid 1940s.
 
Hitler started making speeches about the evil of communists and the sub human status of slavs in 1920.

He fed the fears of communism throughout German society to strengthen his position constantly through his political career.

Of course he was eventually going to invade Russia. Everyone knew that and everyone wanted to be ready for a war.
 
Q: Is it true that the Germans referred to the Russians as "subhumans"?

A: Nonsense! The Russians are human beings just like everyone else.

Your question, whether we called the Russians "subhumans," is nonsense. We had a first-class relationship with the Russian people. The only exception, which was a problem we dealt with, was with the Soviet Commissars, who were all Jews. These people stood behind the lines with machine guns, pushing the Russian soldiers into battle. And anyway, we made quick work of them. That was according to order. This was during a war for basic existence, an ideological war, when such a policy is simply taken for granted.

There was sometimes talk about the so-called Asian hordes, and ordinary soldiers sometimes spoke about subhumans, but such language was never officially used.
This is ridiculous and so obviously false, and Remer was a huge Nazi, only whitewashing his views for interviews. Maybe he softened up after the war, I really don't care to know.

The easy answer to the question is 'No, it was not a preemptive invasion at all.'

However, the more careful question is "Probably not, but hypothetically yes." Stalin was building tens of thousands of tanks and training dozens of parachutist units for airborne assault. His army was being built around the "Deep Battle" doctrine, which, as most would know, is quite the offensive masterpiece with very little room for positional defense, which they were forced into in 1941 and most of 1942. Even though things like the Stalin Line, and the improvement of Imperial Russian fortifications did take place, that happens naturally in peacetime as well and does not suggest a defensive posture, only modernization of obsolete areas. Tanks, Planes, and paratroopers, though, are offensive weapons, and they had much more priority than forts and bunkers.

The Germans started their invasion at the perfect time, in the middle of massive military reforms and refits, with few good officers and mid-level staff to administrate the massive Red Army. Given time until 1943 or 1944, Stalin very well might have attacked, although that could never be certain. What is known, however, is that on the time of 6/22/1941, there were no current war plans for the Soviet Union to invade Germany or any of it's allied states at the time, therefore making Barbarossa, by definition, not a preemptive invasion.
 
However, the more careful question is "Probably not, but hypothetically yes." Stalin was building tens of thousands of tanks and training dozens of parachutist units for airborne assault. His army was being built around the "Deep Battle" doctrine, which, as most would know, is quite the offensive masterpiece with very little room for positional defense, which they were forced into in 1941 and most of 1942. Even though things like the Stalin Line, and the improvement of Imperial Russian fortifications did take place, that happens naturally in peacetime as well and does not suggest a defensive posture, only modernization of obsolete areas. Tanks, Planes, and paratroopers, though, are offensive weapons, and they had much more priority than forts and bunkers.
It was not an offensive masterpiece. See the details of the Soviet invasion of Manchuria, oft lauded as the best example of Soviet Deep Battle Doctrine within the pdf below.

This post goofy ahh.


Just posting some excerpts from this


TL: DR:
>be shitter Japanese units
>filled with chinese and manchu conscripts
> barely any equipment
>face off against battle hardened Red Army divisions
>absolutely bitchslap them and force them to retreat
>only surrender because High Command are cowards who can't find a way out conditionally and the Emperor tells you to stop
Xxbng.jpeg


further TL: DR(serious)
The Soviet Invasion of Manchuria was significant far more for its implications in closing off a diplomatic avenue for peace and far less due to any "battle-hardened skill" in the invasion itself in terms of Deep Battle. It's like bragging about your MMA routine because you beat up a guy in a wheelchair but he still manages to wedgie you.
 
It depends.

Was Stalin planning to invade eventually? Yes, I'm quite ... skeptical of the claims of Stalin being a peacenik.
Was he planning to invade right then and there? No. In fact that's why Operation Barbarossa was so initially successful. The Red Army had a massive pile of equipment but with hardly any real good officers or decent training and almost got consumed within the first year.
Stalin being a peacenik is certainly a take. Though Stalin being cautious to a fault is a more reasonable analysis of his character. He would only act with what he believed was a resonable chance of success. That tracks with most of his actions from Poland to the Winter War and Cold War imho. He wanted his international adversaries distracted, kept his goals limited and relied on the perception of overwhelming Soviet force (he was also a politician, not a general). It’s why the Winter War went so poorly. Attempted to do a Poland in a completely different tactical context.

An invasion of Europe while the British and French Empires were in play would have been very unlikely. Even after Germany beat the crap out of the French, Stalin and the Politburo quite rightly recognized they were no where near ready for a war in Eastern Europe. In the Cold War he cut as much of the sphere of influence cake as he could due to the new strategic situation being so lopsided against the USSR.
 
No, it doesn’t. What part of it “seems” true.

"And what about the Soviet Union. If you *think* about it, maybe there are a few missing pieces in the rationale for war. But doesn't taking Stalin out *feel* like the right thing? Right here? Right here from the gut? Because that's where the truth comes from ladies and gentlemen, the gut."
 
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