WAR IN TIERRA DEL FUEGO: Clash of Dictators (Part 1)

Who would win this war?


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September 11th, 1973 - Santiago de Chile
General Augusto Pinochet, Army General of the Chilean Army leads a Military Coup against socialist elected president Salvador Allende, at 9 am, that day, two fighters model Hawker Hunter dropped bombs in the Palace of La Moneda, destroying it, there is suspiccion that Allende commited suicide inside his office before the bombing. Since that day began the period in Chile known as the Dictadura Militar. Secretly this coup was armed and prepared by CIA operatives, so there is use of many NATO vehicles and even from the Allied Forces from WW2, such as M4A1 shermans, Hawker Hunters, M3 Troop carriers. During the 70's Chile becomes a Dictatorship.​

"Not a single page moves without my knowledge, this was never a dictatorship, it was a softtatorship, but maybe its time to tighten the grip."
-General Augusto Pinochet


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March 24th, 1976 - Buenos Aires, Argentina
Elected President Isabel Martínez de Perón is derrocated in a coup d'etat, begining the 6th argentinian dictatorship, many private enterprises are allied with the military and for the first time, all the three military powers (Army, Navy and Air Force) are unified in one reign of terror under dictator Jorge Rafael Videla, also under the support of the CIA. The argentinian army also has many outdated vehicles of the US and NATO armed forces, such as A4-C Skyhawks and french AML-90s. Under Videla's guidance the first conceptions of Operation Sovereignty, an armed operation on both the British controlled Falklands Islands (Islas Malvinas) and the south of Chile.​

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May 4th, 1979 - London, England
By an astonishing 1% of votes, Margaret Thatcher loses the ellections of 1979, the new prime minister is Liberal Candidate David Steel, who assumes the power and has more independence stances than the conservative party, a year later he unifies Ireland by giving them the northern Ireland territory. this causes controversy among the british people

April 2nd, 1982, 1883 km east of the Argentinian coast
While on the capital the Dictatorship is falling apart, Dictator Videla raises a military campaign on the Falklands, but here is when things change in favor of the Argeninians. Videla sent his best troops and armies to capture Port Stanley and Port Mitre. He expects a response from Prime Minister David Steel to arrive, who, in favor of his more liberal stances decides to do nothing, and let the Argentinians keep the islands, soon enough the UN accepts the claims over the Falklands.

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September 18th, 1982, Punta Arenas, Chile
Videla's plans have come smoothly, his forces are ready to assault on the Great Island of Tierra del Fuego, an Island they had to share with the Chileans since they colonized it. Due to the invasion in the Falklands, President Ronald Reagan is forced by the British to cancel out any alliances and guarantees over the south american continent. Due to past allegiances, the British decide to ally themselves with Chile. Argentina is supported by all his neighbours in south america.

The Invasion Begins, Videla seems it like prime time due to being an special date for the Chilean people, in less than 6 hours they reach Porvenir, and begin operation Sovereignty, they think this operation will go as smoothly as with the falklands. Until they meet a surprise, two armored divisions with american M60 Patton tanks are waiting for them, the Infantry Divisions are no match for the armored vehicles, who hold the Argentinian advance at the magellan strait bridge. But they cant advance due to airborne troops that captured the supply hubs at Wellington Island, O'higgins and Port Natales, thus, the chileans can't do anything but retreat to Punta Arenas, the last hub of the Chileans in tierra del fuego. Both the attacks in Valdivia and Santiago fail due to the military personel being ready to action due to the next day's military parade and due to an exercise over Valdivia by the Chilean Air Force that spotted cargo planes with Airborne Argentinian Troops.

In December, that same year, The Chilean Army launches operation Pincoya, where an operation is send south to capture the key island of Chiloe, and so advance through the mountainous terrain, something the chileans trained for due to the hard and unforgiving terrain at the Andes Mountain Range.

In the North, the Chilean army reaches Cafayate and Salta, and in the air many operations with brand-new F4E tomcats, outmatch the Argentinian third gen fighters, so they manage to guarantee Chilean Air Superiority in the South Cone.

By January, 1983 the Dictator Wars Rage on...

ATTENTION: Due to several feedback this post will be left obsolete, Because I'll be working in a better and more acurrate way of this conflict to come across

Sincerely... Freddman
 
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Bueno... se me olvidaba que murió, eran las 2 de la mañana y ese detalle se me escapó de la cabeza
Videla vivía bien en ese momento... pero terminó su "mandato" en marzo de 1981... pero se opuso mucho a iniciar una guerra en 1978 y se opuso a invadir las Malvinas/Falklands cuando la marina puso sus intenciones en 1977

Another thing....by 1982 Argentina had TAM tank in service...deveolped with West Germany, really close to german Leopard l tank....it was suitable for the terrain, better than M60 Patton, hence Argentina didn't buy M60 Patton in the 70s....AM Missile Martin Pescador started to be produced and if there was not embargo, AM 39 Exocet and Super Etendard would have been able in more quantities. Another important thing is Chile at that time had little oil to support their ops...and in 1978 the Magallanes oil refineries were into Argentinian Air Force target by the time if war erupted in OTL
 
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September 11th, 1973 - Santiago de Chile
In the North, the Chilean army reaches Cafayate and Salta, and in the air many operations with brand-new F14A tomcats (given by the USAF) outmatch the Argentinian third gen fighters, so they manage to guarantee Chilean Air Superiority in the South Cone.

By January, 1983 the Dictator Wars Rage on...
I always enjoy a South American TL, in saying that how did Chile acquire F - 14A Tomcats and how would their Air Force support a fairly logistically complex fighter aircraft.
 
Realistically, any British administration regardless of the political party would have fought the Malvinas Conflict, so it's unlikely that they would have just given the islands: it would be political suicide.
 
Videla vivía bien en ese momento... pero terminó su "mandato" en marzo de 1981... pero se opuso mucho a iniciar una guerra en 1978 y se opuso a invadir las Malvinas/Falklands cuando la marina puso sus intenciones en 1977

Another thing....by 1982 Argentina had TAM tank in service...deveolped with West Germany, really close to german Leopard l tank....it was suitable for the terrain, better than M60 Patton, hence Argentina didn't buy M60 Patton in the 70s....AM Missile Martin Pescador started to be produced and if there was not embargo, AM 39 Exocet and Super Etendard would have been able in more quantities. Another important thing is Chile at that time had little oil to support their ops...and in 1978 the Magallanes oil refineries were into Argentinian Air Force target by the time if war erupted in O
well, a problem the Argentinian High Command had by the time was their pride, they though at the mere sight of argentinian forces the chileans would run away as fast as possible, but across the ridge they knew what they were planning so the chilean high command sent armored divisions
 
Realistically, any British administration regardless of the political party would have fought the Malvinas Conflict, so it's unlikely that they would have just given the islands: it would be political suicide.
Maybe I should have added some pressure to the british by the UN, by the other security council's members. France due to their old rivalry with britain, The US to have even more control over the hemisphere, the USSR due to wishing to end imperialism and The PRC due to similar ideals than the Soviets
 
I always enjoy a South American TL, in saying that how did Chile acquire F - 14A Tomcats and how would their Air Force support a fairly logistically complex fighter aircraft.
I know, but I also know that Augusto Pinochet wasnt exactly reasonable, for that reason he became a dictator, so wouldnt be out of hand for him to buy Expensive 4th gen fighters just to flex over the Argentinians
 
well, a problem the Argentinian High Command had by the time was their pride, they though at the mere sight of argentinian forces the chileans would run away as fast as possible, but across the ridge they knew what they were planning so the chilean high command sent armored divisions
That was not true. That was a widespreaded myth by chileans, using statements by Luciano Benjamin Menendez ( not Mario Benjamin Menendez) but forgetting that chilean chancellor Cubillos did make some quotes of that level. Argentina mobilized everything they had, almost 500.000 soldiers, their military factories working three turns, hurrying weaponery purchase abroad,etc... Far from a symbolic thing. Chile and Argentina were largely based conscript army and Argentina GDP was 3 times Chile...I'm not saying it would have been an easy victory, not at all...but the well known factor in this page "no matter what happens, Argentina will lose a war" seems awkward by several factors.

Chile and Argentina were rivals with a 100 years conflict hypothesis each other...so chileans know everything and argentinians don't...were chileans masters of wars when the last war they fought was 100 years ago as well as Argentina?
 
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I know, but I also know that Augusto Pinochet wasnt exactly reasonable, for that reason he became a dictator, so wouldnt be out of hand for him to buy Expensive 4th gen fighters just to flex over the Argentinians
So Peru would purchase Mig 29?...Brazil would scream and purchase French fighters or South African ones letting US away...beside the sparkling US antisentiment everywhere... Put in risk that Argentina opens up to USSR ( in material not ideological) and be a corridor to Peru spares, creating a big threat because they intervene directly for Chile....in a gain of what? That is what at least to me doesn't make sense...for UK, the Reagan Administration cooperate because they are natural NATO allies, in Afghanistan the US made a network to supply weapons...but here gives directly to Chile that 4 gen fighters? What is the gain for the US to did that? They only can do that for Israel at that time and make sense...but here doesn't
 
So Peru would purchase Mig 29?...Brazil would scream and purchase French fighters or South African ones letting US away...beside the sparkling US antisentiment everywhere... Put in risk that Argentina opens up to USSR ( in material not ideological) and be a corridor to Peru spares, creating a big threat because they intervene directly for Chile....in a gain of what? That is what at least to me doesn't make sense...for UK, the Reagan Administration cooperate because they are natural NATO allies, in Afghanistan the US made a network to supply weapons...but here gives directly to Chile that 4 gen fighters? What is the gain for the US to did that? They only can do that for Israel at that time and make sense...but here doesn't
pal, do you want to see a war or not? If you have a better Idea of how to do it then do it yourself.
 
pal, do you want to see a war or not? If you have a better Idea of how to do it then do it yourself.
Just take a step back and consider @Ruperto Pesto argument, namely that in Chile acquiring advanced long range interceptors will precipitate a subsequent arms race from neighbouring countries. A case in point would be the battleship race in South America prior to the Great War and, that damn well nearly bankrupted all of the countries involved.

In this case it could be enough for both Peru and potentially Argentina to lean towards the Soviet camp, which would be bizarre with a right wing junta accepting help from the Eastern Bloc, but it was a genuinely held fear at the time. This then draws Brazil into the mix and this perhaps opens up an wider conflagration for inclusion in your story.

With that in mind, perhaps consider downgrading the F - 14 Tomcat purchase to the Chilean Air Force acquiring F - 4 C / D / E Phantoms, which would be enough to force the US State Department to either provide the Phantoms to Argentina & Brazil or they will acquire a comparable aircraft from a different supplier. Which given the timeline leaves us with two countries - France (Mirage III, F1 or 2000) or the Soviets (Mig 21s, 23s & latter POD - 29s). I'd split the difference and have Mig 23s perhaps updated with French avionics, but that would be an interesting air to air battle.

As an aside I've had multiple posters identifying logical flaws in my own timelines and, in doing so they helped me to strengthen my work. Hell it took me three goes to rework my favourite TL '12 Minutes to Midnight' to something approaching a semi - completed form.

My 0.02c for what it's worth.
 
No party regardless of Political ideology is going to just let the Falklands go. Doing so is a sure way to lose the next election by a record landslide. Not to mention the Falkland Islanders actually wanted to be British
 
No party regardless of Political ideology is going to just let the Falklands go. Doing so is a sure way to lose the next election by a record landslide. Not to mention the Falkland Islanders actually wanted to be British
The Liberal Party, jumping from third place, a far trailing third, somehow gaining power, with no explaining done, then just handing Ulster to Eire, again with no explaining, is far less plausible than this minor Falklands issue.
Well... the explanation is that Steel is a Liberal, so that must be it, I guess.
 

Ramontxo

Donor
I know, but I also know that Augusto Pinochet wasnt exactly reasonable, for that reason he became a dictator, so wouldnt be out of hand for him to buy Expensive 4th gen fighters just to flex over the Argentinians
After Letelier murder in Washington Chile was subjected to an severe weapons embargo. And anyway there was an strong reluctance from the USA to let Latin-American countries get supersonic jets. What opened an window for Dassault and French Mirages.
 
Coming back to the F-14 issue, the F-14 only ever had 2 operators, the US Navy and the Imperial Iranian Air Force. After the Iranian revolution in February 1979, the US was utterly dedicated to preventing Iran from getting any spares for their Tomcats. Chilean F-14s seems like too loose a chain of control for the US to allow. On top of that the F-14 was hella expensive and current generation technology. The Shah only got them because he had a fetish for aircraft, he paid full price, and Iran was serving the role of a regional proxy power for the US/UK.
 
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