Voices of Doomsday
- Thread starter Geon
- Start date
I can almost guarantee you that neither of those plant mutations has anything to do with radioactivity. The radioactivity around Fukushima is multiple orders of magnitude less then the radioactivity in the fallout plume of a nuclear surface burst. Fortunately, the fallout dies down a lot quicker.
Geon
Donor
Marathag
Here I am simply quoting what Amerigo put in his own TL. He said specifically that a Scud-B hit the base. However, were Scud RVs ready to deploy in 62 and were they in Cuba as far as anyone knows.
Geon
MrP
Banned
Would a Scud-A launched from the OTL location of the Soviet facility in Cuba have enough range to hit Homestead AFB? In which case we could assume a simple nomenclature mistake on Amerigo's part and go with a Scud-A instead of a B. Perhaps it was deployed after the POD while the crisis kept escalating.
My mother was 5 months pregnant, and living with my father at Craig AFB outside Selma, Alabama.
Given the nature of events ITTL, my parents would have gone with their emergency plans; Mom would go 'back home' to the small farm north of Atmore, Alabama where she was born; in original time line Dad was sent to a 'secondary field' somewhere in Georgia (I don't know where) with the mission of refueling, repairing, and rearming returning bombers.
If I read the original timeline correctly, both survive (and probably me, too).
First Strike
Geon
Donor
First Strike
Here is an update. By the way Amerigo, if you read this you misspelled the town's name it is Eufaula, not Eufala.
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Barely three minutes after the Scud B missile hit Raccoon Key the SS-4 missile impacted on Eufaula, Alabama. The warhead had been designated for Jacksonville or one of the other ports of embarkation for the Cuban invasion. The actual target of the missile will never be known. Panicking and fearing a possible airstrike the missile was launched too quickly without enough time to coordinate its systems. It missed its intended target and instead impacted Eufaula, Alabama. The 1.1 megaton warhead was more than enough to incinerate the entire small southern town. Only a few farmers and residents in outlying residents survived.
But worse was to follow the blast destroyed the Walter F. George reservoir and released a now radioactive tsunami to flow down the Chattahoochee River. Fort Gaines was inundated by the flood and so would many small communities downstream. It would be the actions of a brave Alabama highway patrol man who would save countless lives. The officer saw the approaching wall of water as he crossed one of the bridges downstream from Eufaula. He stopped on the other side long enough to radio the warning. Tragically the waters would claim him moments after he radioed the warning. People in Apalachicola and Chattahoochee both owed this trooper their lives as his warning gave many people time to flee.
However, the Eufaula blast also created a fallout cloud of water and debris that would fall northeastward reaching in a path from Eufaula through Georgia and into the southwestern tip of South Carolina. Many would suffer radiation sickness in that zone, many more would have to deal with higher cancer rates in the years to come and with lower birth rates. Those who managed to swim to safety were also in for an unpleasant surprise as they would find themselves dealing with having swallowed or being saturated with radioactive water. Many of those who barely survived and swam to safety after the disaster would later wish they had drowned as they dealt with the agonies of radiation sickness or even later cancer.
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Ten minutes after the strike on Eufaula and minutes after the impacts of two other Scud B’s in Florida the CONELRAD stations came on the air.
“This is your CONELRAD station…The Office of Civil Defense has just issued the following message. This is an attack warning, I repeat this is an attack warning! An attack warning indicates that an actual nuclear attack is underway against this nation and protective measures must be taken. If you are at home go to your basement and remain there until the all clear is issued. If you are outdoors go to the nearest labeled public fallout shelter immediately. All citizens in the states of Florida, Alabama, Georgia, South Carolina, North Carolina, Tennessee, Mississippi, Louisiana, West Virginia, and Virginia, as well as the District of Columbia should especially seek shelter at this time. Repeat this is an attack warning a nuclear attack on the United States is currently underway."
Here is an update. By the way Amerigo, if you read this you misspelled the town's name it is Eufaula, not Eufala.
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Barely three minutes after the Scud B missile hit Raccoon Key the SS-4 missile impacted on Eufaula, Alabama. The warhead had been designated for Jacksonville or one of the other ports of embarkation for the Cuban invasion. The actual target of the missile will never be known. Panicking and fearing a possible airstrike the missile was launched too quickly without enough time to coordinate its systems. It missed its intended target and instead impacted Eufaula, Alabama. The 1.1 megaton warhead was more than enough to incinerate the entire small southern town. Only a few farmers and residents in outlying residents survived.
But worse was to follow the blast destroyed the Walter F. George reservoir and released a now radioactive tsunami to flow down the Chattahoochee River. Fort Gaines was inundated by the flood and so would many small communities downstream. It would be the actions of a brave Alabama highway patrol man who would save countless lives. The officer saw the approaching wall of water as he crossed one of the bridges downstream from Eufaula. He stopped on the other side long enough to radio the warning. Tragically the waters would claim him moments after he radioed the warning. People in Apalachicola and Chattahoochee both owed this trooper their lives as his warning gave many people time to flee.
However, the Eufaula blast also created a fallout cloud of water and debris that would fall northeastward reaching in a path from Eufaula through Georgia and into the southwestern tip of South Carolina. Many would suffer radiation sickness in that zone, many more would have to deal with higher cancer rates in the years to come and with lower birth rates. Those who managed to swim to safety were also in for an unpleasant surprise as they would find themselves dealing with having swallowed or being saturated with radioactive water. Many of those who barely survived and swam to safety after the disaster would later wish they had drowned as they dealt with the agonies of radiation sickness or even later cancer.
---------
Ten minutes after the strike on Eufaula and minutes after the impacts of two other Scud B’s in Florida the CONELRAD stations came on the air.
“This is your CONELRAD station…The Office of Civil Defense has just issued the following message. This is an attack warning, I repeat this is an attack warning! An attack warning indicates that an actual nuclear attack is underway against this nation and protective measures must be taken. If you are at home go to your basement and remain there until the all clear is issued. If you are outdoors go to the nearest labeled public fallout shelter immediately. All citizens in the states of Florida, Alabama, Georgia, South Carolina, North Carolina, Tennessee, Mississippi, Louisiana, West Virginia, and Virginia, as well as the District of Columbia should especially seek shelter at this time. Repeat this is an attack warning a nuclear attack on the United States is currently underway."
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Something tells me that Cuba will be uninhabitable for at least a century after the U.S is finished with it.
not only them
Britain, North France, West and East Germany, East block, USSR, North South Korea and Japan also...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dgk9z9ZBvvE
https://vimeo.com/81455650
My issue with the "Cuban Missile War" -- which is not a reflection on this timeline, as I enjoy it -- is that it takes build up to get to atomic war after nuclear weapons have already been used in certain areas. As soon as the first nuclear incident occurs, I would argue full exchange would ensue.
https://vimeo.com/81455650
My issue with the "Cuban Missile War" -- which is not a reflection on this timeline, as I enjoy it -- is that it takes build up to get to atomic war after nuclear weapons have already been used in certain areas. As soon as the first nuclear incident occurs, I would argue full exchange would ensue.
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I don't know about this. The build up toward full war seems very much in character for JFK, who actually ordered SIOP-63 changed so that it had more options for flexible response than SIOP-62 and who demonstrated a very flexible, calm and methodical approach to negotiating the OTL crisis. It is one thing to lose personnel and ships overseas or to have nuclear weapons detonate on the territory of allies. It is quite another thing to take a step that means weapons will detonate in Moscow or New York. Full exchange is an irrevocable step and one that eliminates all hope that the worst will be avoided. Leaders holding back from that step into the abyss seems pretty plausible to me. The USSR, after all, was devastated by the Second World War. That its leaders would hold back initially does not strike me as implausible.
This is also a much slower era than that which would follow just a few years later. In 1962, bombers were the principal means of delivery of weapons; this lends itself to a more deliberative approach to escalation. The era of massive numbers of accurate MIRVed missiles had not yet arrived.
Nuclear weapons are not a half-measure weapon. Psychologically, they can't be, which is why tactical nuclear weapons are a pipe dream. As soon as something happens, the assumption is going to be the authorities that be in Washington or Moscow authorized it, that the further attack is incoming and you have a few minutes to decide to kill off the other side before they kill you. And the thinking in a nuclear war is either you go all in or you surrender. Nobody wants to die, but nuclear warfare entails that everyone who can has to. That's inherent to the fact that when the arms race bluff fails -that bluff being not to act because everyone will suffer to the maximum extent- everyone does suffer to the maximum extent. By its nature, it is irrevocable immediately when it starts. So that's my disagreement with Amerigo.
That said, I do enjoy this and its not a reflection on the timeline. Its simply my metagame thinking in regards to 'The Cuban Missile War'. I can still enjoy it in terms of its own narrative.
That wasn't the thinking of JFK and his advisors, though. This was the era of "Flexible Response", when the US was - at least in theory - committed to the idea of responding proportionately and limiting the use of nuclear weapons to the extent possible. That hadn't yet been implemented in the SIOP, but that was the theory held forth by JFK's team.
Furthermore, at this point SAC is on airborne alert, so while the Russians might manage to catch some on the ground, enough would survive to complete the SIOP.
Fortunately, this remains a theoretical and abstract discussion
rather than a dissection of actual events. One can argue both sides of this. My own view is that JFK's deliberative nature during the OTL crisis. plus a massive US advantage at that time supports the notion that him waiting this out is plausible. How he would have reacted in an actual sequence of events is ultimately unknowable. The pressure to retaliate massively would have been huge the moment any nuclear weapon was detonated would have been intense. Lucky for all of us, the Soviet sub did not use its torpedo and this sequence of events never actually happened.
In any case, a TL that went immediately from the sub using the torpedo to JFK ordering a massive attack on the USSR wouldn't be very entertaining or interesting. Even if I had issues with the real life plausibility of some of this, I am more than willing to go along with a bit of literary license for a good story, which this one is.
Hi Geon,
Just wanted to say how much your writing is very much in the vein of those days, and it is bringing back some memories ...
While Canadian, and quite young at the time, I do have a general recollection of my parents concern regarding some place called Cuba ... we got lots of hugs ....
Living about 150 miles north west of Grand Forks and about the same distance north east of Minot, didn't bother me much then, however, it was around those days I learned what sonic booms were ... I didn't like them much as they rattled the windows and made my Mom nervous and sad.
looking forward to more ...
Just wanted to say how much your writing is very much in the vein of those days, and it is bringing back some memories ...
While Canadian, and quite young at the time, I do have a general recollection of my parents concern regarding some place called Cuba ... we got lots of hugs ....
Living about 150 miles north west of Grand Forks and about the same distance north east of Minot, didn't bother me much then, however, it was around those days I learned what sonic booms were ... I didn't like them much as they rattled the windows and made my Mom nervous and sad.
looking forward to more ...
marathag
Banned
LeMay and Power at SAC pretty much could have launched anytime they wanted.
They had circumvented the 1st gen PALs.
'The big Red dog is digging in our backyard and we are justified in shooting him' --General Lemay
And General Powers was even worse.
As soon as one nuke RV was on the radar screens, that all had dishes pointed towards Cuba, JFK would only find out later after the CMC that Ike had given them PreDelegated Launch Authority for any attack on CONUS to retaliate as they saw fit, was far in advance of what he thought they could do
http://nsarchive.gwu.edu/news/19980319.htm
Early drafts of guidelines on predelegation approved by Eisenhower in May 1957 suggest that policymakers considered authorizing nuclear weapons use in at least two situations: 1) when attacks by sea or by air on U.S. territory and possessions provided no time for consultation with the President on defensive measures, or 2) when "enemy attacks" prevented a Presidential decision and it was necessary to protect U.S. forces abroad, including those in international waters, or to launch SAC to retaliate to nuclear attack on the continental United States. Whatever the circumstances, Eisenhower would later insist that it be “very clear that an authorizing commander knew in fact that the nuclear attack had occurred on the continental United States.” The late 1959 JCS instructions to CINCSAC (less heavily excised than those to CINCEUR or CINCLANT) begin with a general statement of purpose: to authorize commanders "to expend nuclear weapons in defense of the United States, its Territories, possessions and forces when the urgency of time and circumstances does not permit a specific decision by the President or other person empowered to act in his stead." CINCSAC could approve nuclear release only in "circumstances of grave necessity."
...
- In late 1959, Eisenhower approved predelegation instructions from the Chairman, Joint Chiefs of Staff [JCS] to the Commanders-in-Chief of the Atlantic Command [CINCLANT], European Command [CINCEUR], and the Strategic Air Command [CINCSAC], commanders with major responsibility for nuclear weapons.
- John F. Kennedy let Eisenhower's instructions stand, despite admonitions in January 1961 by White House aide McGeorge Bundy about the danger of "decisions-in-advance" that might allow a "subordinate commander faced with a substantial Russian military action [to] start the thermonuclear holocaust on his own initiative if he could not reach you."
And much of SAC was still unofficially running on 'Massive Retaliation' not SIOP
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marathag
Banned
B was not ready for deployment.
The A was, but never was sent to Cuba. Frog tac missiles were, and weren't noticed by the US
Haven't read the other TL, but it needs a few more PoDs to get Scuds in Cuba in time for the CMC
Fxgentleman
Donor
I just wanted to say that this is very good and I look forward to future installments. One question, as to the story involving the Rat Pack. If I remember correctly, Angie Dickinson was a one of few women who ran with the group back then. Is she perhaps with them in Vegas? Just curious.
I don't know if this will help any, but back in the late 1980s there was a very good television show called Our World on ABC which examined different points in time. One episode looked at the 13 days of the Cuban Missile Crisis and what was happening around the nation. They had a number of different interviews with people. It had some interesting points of view. I looked it up and it is available at YouTube at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nmp2QmTGXO8.
I don't know if this will help any, but back in the late 1980s there was a very good television show called Our World on ABC which examined different points in time. One episode looked at the 13 days of the Cuban Missile Crisis and what was happening around the nation. They had a number of different interviews with people. It had some interesting points of view. I looked it up and it is available at YouTube at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nmp2QmTGXO8.