US politics in a Nazis Win TL

Max Sinister

Banned
Generally: How would US politics change if the nazis won WW2?

Of course, we'll have to makes differences for the various possibilities:

- Hitler declares war on the US, as OTL
- or he doesn't, and vice versa

- Nazis control "only" the European continent (maybe after an armistice with Stalin not even all of Russia to the Urals)
- or their empire includes Britain, and/or a big colonial empire in Africa and the Middle East

- Nazis try to interfere, Cold War-like, in American states
- They don't, and expect the same from the US

- Will the US politics nazify ("they defeated Communism, and they were generally very successful, so they can't be all wrong") - eugenics and oppression of non-WASPs in the interior, dominating Latin America even more in the exterior?
- Or will all anti-nazi powers unite against them, making the US more of a Social Democracy?
- Or would the US isolate itself and do whatever they think is best for them?

What will the emigrants in the US do?
 

Dave Howery

what happens if the stories on the death camps comes out? Without the direct horrible evidence before their eyes (as happened in OTL), will the western allies be affected all that much?
 

luakel

Well, just like the biggest fighters of the Communist threat were Rightists, I'd say the biggest fighters of the Fascist threat will be Leftists.
 

Wendell

luakel said:
Well, just like the biggest fighters of the Communist threat were Rightists, I'd say the biggest fighters of the Fascist threat will be Leftists.
Click to expand...
I'm not sure. That might depend on the status of the U.S.S.R. ITTL. Furthermore, Conservatives weren't fond of Nazis. Surely, if Hitler wins, he will be seen as a threat to the Union.

While I see a U.S. Social Democracy resulting as unlikely, I could see an earlier civil rights movement in the States.
 

Max Sinister

Banned
Now that I think about it: The US might see a kind of earlier red-blue split: On the one hand the FDR Democrats, lefties, minorities who fear Hitler, and OTOH the Lindbergh followers, the isolationists, radical anti-communists and so on. If there's a MacCarthy ITTL, the left half of America wouldn't just take the blow, but resist as much as they can.
 

Nicole

The United States, like Britain, knows that it's not in it's interests to have one power dominating Europe. Public opinion in the US was always pro-British and anti-Nazi, despite a few racist loudmouths. I would say it's quite likely we get a anti-rightist backlash....
 

Prunesquallor

In my own massive and unfinished, CEREMONIES OF THE HORSEMEN (which eyes me reproachfully every time I see the manuscript), America doesn't enter the war in Europe. Europe is dominated by the League of Berlin, Goerdeler is German Chancellor (too long to explain what's happened to Hitler.) With only a single front war to worry about, Roosevelt conserves his strength and manages to survive to impose his choice of Democratic candidate for the 1948 election- George Marshall. Marshall only accepts the job through a sense of duty and his single term is not very happy- partly due to some of the old guard Republican senators blaming him for the 1942 fall of MacArthur. The two terms of Taft which follow are marked by prosperity, social conservatism, and an increasing suspicion of big business. Asia is an informal American empire, policed on its behalf by Japan (the Yamashita Mission of 1944 led to a negotiated surrender.) America deliberately turns its back on Europe, a situation which continues till the introduction of cheap transatlantic air travel in the late 1960s. The feeling is that the best of Europe has moved to America, what remains is a decadent backwater. America's attention is focused on the Pacific, not the Atlantic. There is a general consensus on foreign policy, there is an unspoken agreement among the power brokers that the remnants of the New Deal will be left alone,while American business has a free hand abroad.
 

luakel

Wendell said:
I'm not sure. That might depend on the status of the U.S.S.R. ITTL. Furthermore, Conservatives weren't fond of Nazis. Surely, if Hitler wins, he will be seen as a threat to the Union.
Click to expand...
I'd say the USSR won't really be a threat, more like somplace to send aid to to stop the Nazis. And note that almost all of the OTL isolationists were in the Republican Party, not the Dems.
 

MerryPrankster

Instead of McCarthyism in TTL, might we see some early form of Political Correctness? Anyone remotely resembling the Nazis will get hammered politically.

Of course, Straha's point still stands--without the horrors of Nazism, eugenics will not get discredited per OTL and we might still have situations where juvenile delinquents and such are involuntarily sterilized (happened in Virgina, I think) or even the Tuskegee Experiment.
 

Straha

Banned
The model of eugenics I think the *US would adopt woudl be more on the lines of Sweden's. Remember in the 70s they were doing eugenics programs in OTL...
 

luakel

Who says the horrors of Nazism and eugenics won't be discredited? If the US is in a Cold War against them, they might be seen as even worse...
 

Max Sinister

Banned
Other than OTL, the nazis would still enslave and deplace the Jews (bad / evil enough), but they wouldn't necessarily kill millions of them. That they started the war knows everyone; that they aren't a democracy, too; I don't know what the West knew about Dachau and other KZs, but it certainly wasn't enough for the US to declare war on Germany in 1939.
 

luakel

Maybe, assuming peace with Britain is made early enough (after mid-1941 or so it's too late to avoid some sort of Final Solution), the Jews are sent to someplace like Palestine or Madagascar?
 

edvader

Max and others:did I miss something about Joe MCarthy?What does he do after a Nazi European victory:Take on the Nazis?Instead of his West Virginia speech about "holding...in my hand.. the names of 250 Communists- ..it is Nazis!A big Nazi Scare in America?
 

Brandonazz

Ok, assuming the following conditions are true:

-The Axis owns all of Europe including Britain except some parts of Western Russia.

-The United States never declared war on Germany and Italy, but just fought Japan after Pearl Harbor.

-The British and French governments are in Canada.

-The Axis does not yet control the colonies of the former European countries excluding those owned by Vichy France.

-Roosevelt didn't die in office.

-Russia and Germany made peace.

-Japan is occupied.

I would think that many people in America would want to support the allies ans send them supplies. The Goverment would be under increased pressure to send releif to Canada where there are the refugees of the Allies.
The Democrats would see the sentiment as a threat to the upcoming elections after the fourth term of Rossevelt, and decide upon helping the former allies without outright declaring war on the Axis. Supplies would be sent to the remaining British commonwealth, and America would send out spies, sabatuers, submarines etc. to combat the Nazi threat through Russia. The Republican Party would probably turn even more conservitive and opt for trying to make America isolationist. Germany would probably attempt to invade America, but may be dissuaded if the allies lose support after a republican presidential victory after Rossevelt.
 

reformer

Well, French Guina might be invaded, one Nazi stronghold in the hemisphere. I doubt Germany would fight hard for it. My guess is that it would turn independant rather then go to surviving independant French governments.
 

Brandonazz

I agree. I'm starting to think that the colonies in Africa and Asia would probably go independent or would try allying/joining the axis powers. The Other colonies, mainly inhabited by people closere to the homeland or those granted independence such as Canada and Austrailia would become the center of power for the Allies. Before the Asian and African colonies would surrender though, they would probalably witness Germany rolling across northern Africa and into the middle east.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top
Top