US and USSR allies
- Thread starter tom
- Start date
Well, they could both collaborate in nuking the french, but it strikes me that this would be a temporary alliance at best...
Stalin dies somewhere in the VERY late stage of WWII. A rather sane gov't comes to power in the USSR (nicer than Khruschev; did anyone exist like that this early?). The Sovs are more flexible about Eastern Europe, less nakedly imperialist in some other areas (bullying Turkey and Iran), and they don't join the war in the Pacific just to get a slice of the Japanese pie (thus no tensions in Asia).
The Cold War doesn't begin as in OTL; there's a lot of "We beat Hitler together" camraderie. There might be difficulties later (as the real ideologues in the USSR decide to mount a coup), but now for a few years at least.
Of course, the Chinese Civil War, assuming it happens without a Soviet move in Asia (in OTL, the Sovs conveniently left a butt-load of captured Japanese arms right where Mao and friends were), could cause a split in relations. Mao and Chiang were both allies of the US and USSR in the recently-concluded festivities; who'd back who?
The Cold War doesn't begin as in OTL; there's a lot of "We beat Hitler together" camraderie. There might be difficulties later (as the real ideologues in the USSR decide to mount a coup), but now for a few years at least.
Of course, the Chinese Civil War, assuming it happens without a Soviet move in Asia (in OTL, the Sovs conveniently left a butt-load of captured Japanese arms right where Mao and friends were), could cause a split in relations. Mao and Chiang were both allies of the US and USSR in the recently-concluded festivities; who'd back who?
I actually posed this question in a topic not too long ago, but it didn`t get very many replies, so I might as well continue here. I do think this is possible; in fact I had a little idea in my head for a timeline, which went something like this:
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June 6th, 1944. Hitler`s generals, receiving word of the D-Day invasion force, wake the Fuhrer early that morning and send reinforecements to the beach. The Germans execute a quick and forceful counterattack to the invasion. The horrible weather poses as an advantage to the Axis. The invasion force is mostly killed, and the rest taken as prisoners. The paratroopers that landed the night before are rooted out and captured. D-Day is a massive failure. The following day, German officials contact Britian offering peace, basically an "honorable" cease-fire. Winston Churchill vehemently declines the offer. Word leaks to the press, and the citizens of Britain are outraged. Churchill is almost forced to resign over this, until he finally excepts Hitler`s offer. A meeting is set up in England with German, English, and American officials to discuss terms of a truce. After a day or so of negotiations, the war in Europe is over. Germany is allowed to annex Poland and a portion of France. Austria remains a part of Germany.
Even though the war was technically a stalemate, Hitler and his Nazis are viewed as heroes who have restored Germany`s honor. Hitler reminds the people of Germany that the USSR still threatens the Reich. Hitler reassigns thousands of troops from France and the western fronts to fight Russia. After weeks of bloody fighting, the Russo-German war drags on into a stalemate. German officials take a similar route with Russia, offering a truce. Stalin, like Churchill, declines. Head Party officials contest this move vehemently, and a political coup almost takes place. Stalin, seeing how many thousands of troops had died in the war, reluctantly makes a similar peace with Nazi Germany. Russia cedes a portion of the Ukraine to the Riech.
The war in Japan travels pretty much the same route it did in OTL. Hiroshima and Nagasaki are nuked. After World War II comes to close, Nazi Germany begins to slowly recover from the fighting. German citizens everywhere hail Hitler as a hero, pummeling all of the Allied Powers into a stalemate. Even though the war was not technically a victory, Germany`s honor is restored. (Most Germans realize that complete and total victory over the United States, England, and the USSR was not really feasible.)
In the USA, attitudes toward Germany plummet even further than they had during the war. Truman is critisized for his "failure in Europe". (Comparable to the general American populace`s feelings during and after the Vietnam War.) The US and English governments are desperatly searching for an ally against Nazi Germany. The USSR, humiliated by Germany, steps up to the plate. Strangely, during the negotiations between the USA and Russia, Stalin suffers a stroke in early 1946. Nikita Kruschev, a Russian commander during the Battle of Stalingrad, succeeds him. Kruschev immediatly alligns his country with the USA.
Russia`s nuclear program is kicked off in 1947, with help from American scientists. The USSR succesfully detonates a nuclear weapon by 1948. Nazi Germany is outraged by this. They begin to restart their nuclear program, since it faltered during the war, when funds had to go elsewhere. Now, in peace, Germany vows to have a nuclear weapon by the end of the decade. In 1949, Germany fulfills its promise. On a secret military research station near the Transantarctic Mountains in Antarctica, a German nuclear weapon is detonated. The Cold War has begun.
The `50s show immense nuclear buildup by the Three Powers, the USA, USSR, and Nazi Germany. Germany experiments with nuclear warheads mounted on V-2 missiles. Even though levels of animosity are high, this is a relatively calm period. In 1950, the Korean War begins. A coalition of Soviet and American troops enter the country and overwhelm the North Korean troops. The war doesn`t last much longer than six months. In January, 1951, the government of North Korea is overthrown and the Republic of Korea is reunited. Korea is gracious to the USSR and USA.
In 1954, Chancellor Adolf Hitler dies of a stroke while sleeping in his summer home in Bavaria. Heinrich Himmler takes the helm of the Third Reich, vowing to propel the nation into new directions.
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end of part 1
Any comments?
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June 6th, 1944. Hitler`s generals, receiving word of the D-Day invasion force, wake the Fuhrer early that morning and send reinforecements to the beach. The Germans execute a quick and forceful counterattack to the invasion. The horrible weather poses as an advantage to the Axis. The invasion force is mostly killed, and the rest taken as prisoners. The paratroopers that landed the night before are rooted out and captured. D-Day is a massive failure. The following day, German officials contact Britian offering peace, basically an "honorable" cease-fire. Winston Churchill vehemently declines the offer. Word leaks to the press, and the citizens of Britain are outraged. Churchill is almost forced to resign over this, until he finally excepts Hitler`s offer. A meeting is set up in England with German, English, and American officials to discuss terms of a truce. After a day or so of negotiations, the war in Europe is over. Germany is allowed to annex Poland and a portion of France. Austria remains a part of Germany.
Even though the war was technically a stalemate, Hitler and his Nazis are viewed as heroes who have restored Germany`s honor. Hitler reminds the people of Germany that the USSR still threatens the Reich. Hitler reassigns thousands of troops from France and the western fronts to fight Russia. After weeks of bloody fighting, the Russo-German war drags on into a stalemate. German officials take a similar route with Russia, offering a truce. Stalin, like Churchill, declines. Head Party officials contest this move vehemently, and a political coup almost takes place. Stalin, seeing how many thousands of troops had died in the war, reluctantly makes a similar peace with Nazi Germany. Russia cedes a portion of the Ukraine to the Riech.
The war in Japan travels pretty much the same route it did in OTL. Hiroshima and Nagasaki are nuked. After World War II comes to close, Nazi Germany begins to slowly recover from the fighting. German citizens everywhere hail Hitler as a hero, pummeling all of the Allied Powers into a stalemate. Even though the war was not technically a victory, Germany`s honor is restored. (Most Germans realize that complete and total victory over the United States, England, and the USSR was not really feasible.)
In the USA, attitudes toward Germany plummet even further than they had during the war. Truman is critisized for his "failure in Europe". (Comparable to the general American populace`s feelings during and after the Vietnam War.) The US and English governments are desperatly searching for an ally against Nazi Germany. The USSR, humiliated by Germany, steps up to the plate. Strangely, during the negotiations between the USA and Russia, Stalin suffers a stroke in early 1946. Nikita Kruschev, a Russian commander during the Battle of Stalingrad, succeeds him. Kruschev immediatly alligns his country with the USA.
Russia`s nuclear program is kicked off in 1947, with help from American scientists. The USSR succesfully detonates a nuclear weapon by 1948. Nazi Germany is outraged by this. They begin to restart their nuclear program, since it faltered during the war, when funds had to go elsewhere. Now, in peace, Germany vows to have a nuclear weapon by the end of the decade. In 1949, Germany fulfills its promise. On a secret military research station near the Transantarctic Mountains in Antarctica, a German nuclear weapon is detonated. The Cold War has begun.
The `50s show immense nuclear buildup by the Three Powers, the USA, USSR, and Nazi Germany. Germany experiments with nuclear warheads mounted on V-2 missiles. Even though levels of animosity are high, this is a relatively calm period. In 1950, the Korean War begins. A coalition of Soviet and American troops enter the country and overwhelm the North Korean troops. The war doesn`t last much longer than six months. In January, 1951, the government of North Korea is overthrown and the Republic of Korea is reunited. Korea is gracious to the USSR and USA.
In 1954, Chancellor Adolf Hitler dies of a stroke while sleeping in his summer home in Bavaria. Heinrich Himmler takes the helm of the Third Reich, vowing to propel the nation into new directions.
---------------
end of part 1
Any comments?
If USA and USSR are allies, their likeliest common big enemy is an Islamic bloc.
The idea of an Islamic enemy of the USSR and United States is a good one, and perhaps I`ll incorporate it later in the timeline, but my timeline is dependent on the (if at the very least, limited) surivival of Nazi Germany. Keep in mind that if the war was ended in a truce (honorable peace for both sides), the Allies would have been mostly ignorant of the extent of the Holocaust, therefore there wouldn`t be a large push for the creation of Israel. A lack of Israel means a more peaceful Middle East, at least in my opinion.
Another facet of the timeline I haven`t really gotten much in to yet is the evolution of a more open, less command-economy driven USSR, in other word, it`s a much less Stalinist Russia.
Another facet of the timeline I haven`t really gotten much in to yet is the evolution of a more open, less command-economy driven USSR, in other word, it`s a much less Stalinist Russia.
After the peace treaty with the other Allies, Hitler has thousands of troops freed up on the western fronts; troops he fling at the Soviet assault. These troops, and a few Soviet losses here and there force the war into a stalemate. Something I also haven`t mentioned is the Nazi air superiority; the German jets have started to show up in combat (although it won`t be until `46 that they will come into mass-production).
Stalin is also faced with a possible political coup. Even the other allies urge Stalin find peace with Germany (if for no other reason than the other Allies don`t want the Commies to succeed in defeating Hitler`s Menace when they could not). Stalin is losing thousands of troops. He doesn`t want to make peace with Germany, but he is essentially forced to.
Stalin is also faced with a possible political coup. Even the other allies urge Stalin find peace with Germany (if for no other reason than the other Allies don`t want the Commies to succeed in defeating Hitler`s Menace when they could not). Stalin is losing thousands of troops. He doesn`t want to make peace with Germany, but he is essentially forced to.
"After the peace treaty with the other Allies, Hitler has thousands of troops freed up on the western fronts; troops he fling at the Soviet assault. These troops, and a few Soviet losses here and there force the war into a stalemate. Something I also haven`t mentioned is the Nazi air superiority; the German jets have started to show up in combat (although it won`t be until `46 that they will come into mass-production).
Stalin is also faced with a possible political coup. Even the other allies urge Stalin find peace with Germany (if for no other reason than the other Allies don`t want the Commies to succeed in defeating Hitler`s Menace when they could not). Stalin is losing thousands of troops. He doesn`t want to make peace with Germany, but he is essentially forced to."
Nonsense. Stalin could have afforded to lose an extra million or so (far more than the Germans could kill by that point anyway) before he really had to stop. And if he isn't racing the allies for central Europe, he can afford to slow the advance to make optimal attacks, as opposed to the blind rush of OTL that killed so many more of his troops.
Stalin is also faced with a possible political coup. Even the other allies urge Stalin find peace with Germany (if for no other reason than the other Allies don`t want the Commies to succeed in defeating Hitler`s Menace when they could not). Stalin is losing thousands of troops. He doesn`t want to make peace with Germany, but he is essentially forced to."
Nonsense. Stalin could have afforded to lose an extra million or so (far more than the Germans could kill by that point anyway) before he really had to stop. And if he isn't racing the allies for central Europe, he can afford to slow the advance to make optimal attacks, as opposed to the blind rush of OTL that killed so many more of his troops.