Unknown Aircraft that could have been great .

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Peg Leg Pom

I'm going to nominate tne Bristol 133. If it hadn't crashed (or been crashed (I'm a cynic))just before its RAF trials it is likely it would have been ordered instead of the Gladiator. With engine upgrades and eventually a redisigned undercarriage it could have been competitive upto 41 - 42 at least against the Italians.

If it had been ordered then when the Navy otl bought the Sea Gladiator as a stopgap until the Fulmar it would have been arguably the best naval fighter in the world. It's competitian at that time (1939) would have been the Grumman F3F and the Mitsubishi A5 Claude, with the disasterous Brewster Buffalo months away from entering service.
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Shurik

Shurik

PhilKearny said:
A good but overrated plane according to the definitive volume, on the plane The Boeing XF8B-1 Fighter: Last of the Line. It would have been useful, but because of Boeing's insistence on an internal bombay, the plane was overly complex and its performance--other than range--was no advancement over the latest two versions of the Corsair. Further, it took up as much deck space as a twin-engined Tigercat did. Still, an impressive exercise.
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Overly complex was an ongoing issue as aircraft became more advanced. Still, performance being equal to "the latest two versions of the Corsair" while still having a sizable internal bomb bay, and the legs that thing had... I'd say that's more than just "...good but overrated...".
;)
 
Driftless

Driftless

Donor
Simon said:
Aside from performance figures my main problem with the XF5F is aesthetic, the fuselage looks as though it's losing its grip and slowing slipping off the wings as the engines drag them forward. :)
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You might like one of the several altenative configurations that plane went through. The base design got stuck in a terminal development loop and couldn't escape. The USAAC XP-50 version had a very similar outward look, but for the tricylce landing gear.

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173rd LRRP

Every time I see a photo of the XF5F, I think of those neo-Nazi uniformed Blackhawk characters from the 1940 comic strips. Loved them when I was 7 years old but find the concept disturbing now

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Peg Leg Pom

I think the Westland Whirlwind deserves a mention. It had 2 problems that could have been solved. It's engines were under developed, obtaining a licence for the Hispano Suizer 12 Y wohld have avoided that. It also had a limited range.
 

riggerrob

Blob und Voss 141, as symmetrical observation plane. Great visibility (up, down, forwards, backwards and to the right) for the three crew members sitting a Plexiglas gondola. It's assymetric configuration handled gracefully said RN Captain Eric "Winkle" Brown. About 40 were built until nazis realized that its BMW 801 radial engines were more valuable in Dornier bombers and FW-190 fighters.
Instead, the LW ordered hundreds of FW-189observation planes with similar crew nacelles. The FWs were powered by a pair of smaller Argus engines mounted on the front of far more conventional twin-booms.
 

Just Leo

yulzari said:
They used to drop into the sea near my old home. No one has managed to plausibly explain to me why Defiants could drag the same drogue about at the same speed without problems.
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The Henley was powered by early Merlin engines cooled on pure glycol, and had a radiator without surplus cooling capability, so it had just enough for intended use, which was not towing a sock. Later engines ran 70/30 water glycol, which allowed for higher temps and pressure. A Griffon test bed Henley had a nice huge rad, and glycol mix coolant, perfect for towing targets, so was not used for such.

The real mystery is why the Henley was ordered in the first place if they didn't want it. If only the Air Ministry had an Ernst Udet.

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Just Leo

Peg Leg Pom said:
I'm going to nominate tne Bristol 133. If it hadn't crashed (or been crashed (I'm a cynic))just before its RAF trials it is likely it would have been ordered instead of the Gladiator.
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So you're saying the Air Ministry should have ordered an aircraft that goes into an unrecoverable flat spin. Bristol also offered the Bristol 123, a biplane with truncated rear fuselage that looks too short and flew like it too. They should have done their homework.
 

Peg Leg Pom

That was deliberately put ina spin after the pilot somebow forgot tbat he hadn't pumped the hydraulics god knows hoow many times to raise the wheels. Any aircraft will bite you if you make stupid mistakes like that and fighters are ment to be unstable.
 

Just Leo

Peg Leg Pom said:
That was deliberately put ina spin after the pilot somebow forgot tbat he hadn't pumped the hydraulics god knows hoow many times to raise the wheels. Any aircraft will bite you if you make stupid mistakes like that and fighters are ment to be unstable.
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The test pilot was W.T. Campbell. You'll remember him as... no you won't. He disappeared from Uwins' family. A wise man once told me "Ye can nee troost a Campbell." I don't know what language that is, but that's his wife's maiden name. I don't know who taxied the Bristol 146 into a display at Farnborough. Good test pilots aren't that common. The ventral appendage added to Hurricanes, and the loss of the retractable tailwheel was due to the requirement of getting out of a spin. The Bristol was the hottest aircraft in F.7/30, and could have been the British Corsair, if it wasn't so butt ugly. It does look nicer in quarter view.
 

Matt Wiser

The F11F-1F would've been perfect for the NATO role. Problem was that Lockheed was pretty generous with its bribes, and allowing license production of the F-104. Grumman wasn't willing to do either.
 

KACKO

ennobee said:
Hope you didn't pay too much for the kit. I got that queezy feeling that the model company just gave you the wings of a spitfire and the fuselage of an early Yak1 and then said: "If you fit these two together, you'll have a little-known Czech fighter everyone at the next convention will envy you for...
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2 bucks + shipment for old Czech KP. :) There is new Czech model bit more though. Some 15 to 20.
 

Matt Wiser

Here's another one: the NAA F-108 Rapier. Long-range interceptor and potential escort fighter for the B-70A Valkyrie bomber.

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Flying Sorcerer

One of my favourites is the Fleet 50 Freighter, a small STOL transport built in Canada in 1938. It had a fairly wide fuselage for its size and a cargo loading hatch in the nose so it could take bulky, indivisible loads. Fleet only turned out five; the type was under powered and one was lost in a spectacular ground fire during a delivery flight. With better engines perhaps it could have survived in production long enough to become a widely used military utility transport like the Norseman.

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PhilKearny

PhilKearny

The F-104 was only a widowmaker for the Germans. Air forces with more skillful pilots, such as the Italy and Canada, didn't have the same problems with the F-104.
wietze said:
how about the Grumman F11F-1F Super Tiger?

i think it would have been better than the widowmaker F104
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joeferrito

PhilKearny said:
The F-104 was only a widowmaker for the Germans. Air forces with more skillful pilots, such as the Italy and Canada, did have the same problems with the F-104.
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I've never really blamed it on the Luftwaffe's pilots. Just more of what they tried to make the aircraft do. I love the -104 but even I'll gladly admit it's a piss poor candidate for an all-weather, low altitude strike fighter.
 
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