Union and Liberty: An American TL
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How is California deveoping? Any hope of seeing the USA incorperate it in the future?
I went and looked back at the update I did a while ago on California. (here it is in case anyone missed it) I have California getting better relations with the US in the late 1880s and early 1890s, but now they're probably beginning to slide back toward the British. I'm actually surprised at how well it lined up with what I wrote all the way back then, with Cali being friendlier with the US during Cleveland's term but moving away probably starting after the First Mexican War showing that the US is willing to interfere with its neighbors.
Integration into the USA is inevitable
Not necessarily so. We are still campaigning against that.
Plus it makes no sense. The US is better off just establishing a friendly government that pays its debts, you annex it and you also annex quite an economic burden.
Integration into the USA is inevitable
Why is that anything to smile about? California getting annexed into the USA creates nothing but another Ameriwank. The way wilcox has it now is really quite original and entertaining. The obsession with mega-America is boring.
What can I say, I like a good old fashioned Ameri-wank
don't we all kind of already live in one?
alternate histories should be alternate. Let's not just all end up at invertible American imperiums just because we already live there.
There are tons and tons of ameriwanks out there that do exactly what you seem to enjoy; this one doesn't and other people like myself enjoy it for that reason. If you want hegemonic western fantasies, go to one of the dozens of ameriwanks here on this board, or, hell, just turn on fox news.
My thoughts exactly.
Although I am not against the US expanding more in TTL, just not in the usual Ameri-wank style. If it is going against Britain in the war and annexing anything afterwards, I would say Hudson, and Deseret make the most sense. They are lightly populated, one is basically private property of a corporation and the other already has a US friendly and dependent population.
California, on the other hand makes no sense. Its population is quite different from the US (Even if it is 25% anglo or so; they are probably well accustomed to their position in Cali). So annexing it means annexing about 2 million unfriendly residents, it means inheriting some of California's foreign policy regarding Hawaii, Japan, Sonora, and the Mexican states. This would be too much trouble for it to be practical.
I wouldn't call OTL an Ameriwank by any means, at least not any more than it is a Britwank, Russowank or recently a Sinowank.
I just kind of find the idea that the USA is letting a resource rich land filled with less than 2 million people, a good portion of whom are American themselves, stay independant. Plus, something about a US so little acess to the Pacific seems... odd I suppose.
I'n just nitpicking though. My feelings about California aside, this is a superb TL, and I wait eagerly to see its future.
I just kind of find the idea that the USA is letting a resource rich land filled with less than 2 million people, a good portion of whom are American themselves, stay independant. Plus, something about a US so little acess to the Pacific seems... odd I suppose.
I'n just nitpicking though. My feelings about California aside, this is a superb TL, and I wait eagerly to see its future.
Where is your California pride? Partially I want to keep it independent for the same reason.
OTL, is far from a Sino or Russo-wank (Britwank in the 1800s maybe). China is doing OK economically at the moment. But a Sino-wank would have HK Macau Taiwan and Mongolia under its control, plus a puppet in Korea, and a few others in South East Asia. Perhaps by the end of this century it might resemble a Sinowank but not yet.
And while Russia controls vast amounts of land, it is mostly empty. Russia's population does not match this. A Russo wank would result in two times the number of Russians. And while the USSR was powerful, that did not last.
What makes Ameriwanks boring is their "things would be better if all North America were the USA" attitude. It normalizes problems, and writes away stuff that would otherwise be quite interesting, like a free-California with its own ethnic and religious problems. Having a free California also gives TTL some dramatic tension in the continent that it would otherwise not have.
By 1900 Cali should have about 2 million people, but between then and 1950 it should increase tenfold or more. Having it deal with such a population boom on its own, would be rather neat. Otherwise it just becomes US backwater.
Question: How powerful is Italy in this time period compared to OTL, both military and economically? I can see that Italy is slightly larger, containing both Savoy and Tyrol. And what is the possibility of any colonial adventures by the Italians, potentially in North Africa or elsewhere?
And props on writing an excellent timeline, I especially love the independent California and unique shape of the United States.
And props on writing an excellent timeline, I especially love the independent California and unique shape of the United States.
I disagree on one thing: California being annexed does NOT necessarily constitute an Ameriwank.
Yeah, me too.
That's definitely true about some of these Ameriwanks; although on the other extreme, we have TLs like 'Decades of Darkness'. Where's the middle ground?
TBH, though, I'd also like to point out that it seems that the bias is actually much worse with Ameriscrews(non-Civil War related that is); why is the smaller(or Royalist, like in Lord Grattan's 'The Course of Human Events') America always the nicer one?
Also, I'd love to see a surviving free California as well.
Not meaning to be rude, but perhaps we can move the general discussion of "Ameriwank" and "Ameriscrew" to another thread, so we can keep this thread focused on the excellent timeline that's being developed so far?
Here's a new thread for that purpose: https://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?p=5063888
Nope. Levi Morton was an Episcopalian & not ethnically Jewish (as far as I know).
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