The New Order: A Successful Selim III

[Idzni_Hezrin05]

Yahuu a new update. Wait so Congress of Vienna is earlier by three years? Holy butterfly. Really like seeing the road get improved, would anatolia road also get improvement?? Since it would easier to maneuver and defend the state from imperialistic power. Could Muhammad Ali promulgate a consitutiobal monarchy like constitution??? This would be interesting to see the least. Good update as always.

 

[Kriss]

I'd imagine they would gain their old polish territories back as well as some other territories in North Germany like Saxony, but probably no Rhineland like OTL given that the Russians would realize the effect of having a strong France(without a Napoleon mind you) around to put pressure in both Austria and Prussia from another side of Europe if Russia needs them to do so and even then the Russians will probably walk away with their partition territories alongside getting claims on Finland or if it's already invaded and conquered it, acceptance of it's ownership because simply put, there's no power so far who could actually invade Russia to put a demanding peace deal on them and they know it, so essentially they have all the cards and are gonna put them in a way that benefits them better.

I don't think that Prussia will get Saxony as Austria would oppose that, not even the part of it like otl . I believe they will more, or less get back their Polish territories , also given that we are speaking about Frankfurt Congress that probably means Napoleon accepted Frankfurt Proposal and given Russian marriage and potentially better communication with Tsar, plus the fact that Austria was open about French natural borders (out of quite different reasons as they hoped to have France as counterbalance to Russia, but without Russia they can't really continue the war, especially not when they have already secured everything they possibly could).

This also means that Prussia doesn't get the Rhine and given that Russia had lesser role to play in defeating Napoleon and was even supporting him its quite likely that Prussia gets its Polish territories together with Austria, plus Westphalia region as Matternich and Austria would still want Prussia to have border with France , plus otl there was also deal with France on this one during Napoleonic wars.

Russia probably comes out with claim over Finland.

Otherwise im surprised that Ottomans didn't seek abolition of Russian rights to Protect Christians in Ottoman Empire? I would imagine the congress being a good chance for it.

 

[Vinization]

Yahuu a new update. Wait so Congress of Vienna is earlier by three years? Holy butterfly. Really like seeing the road get improved, would anatolia road also get improvement?? Since it would easier to maneuver and defend the state from imperialistic power. Could Muhammad Ali promulgate a consitutiobal monarchy like constitution??? This would be interesting to see the least. Good update as always.

Anatolia is somewhat neglected compared to Rumelia and Egypt, and this will cause issues in the future.

As for stuff like a constitution, Muhammad Ali's takeover of the state will have consequences.

 

[Vinization]

Otherwise im surprised that Ottomans didn't seek abolition of Russian rights to Protect Christians in Ottoman Empire? I would imagine it being congress being a good chance for it.

Oops, I forgot about that.

Well, that question will be addressed eventually.

 

[Kurd Gossemer]

I don't think that Prussia will get Saxony as Austria would oppose that, not even the part of it like otl . I believe they will more, or less get back their Polish territories , also given that we are speaking about Frankfurt Congress that probably means Napoleon accepted Frankfurt Proposal and given Russian marriage and potentially better communication with Tsar, plus the fact that Austria was open about French natural borders (out of quite different reasons as they hoped to have France as counterbalance to Russia, but without Russia they can't really continue the war, especially not when they have already secured everything they possibly could).

This also means that Prussia doesn't get the Rhine and given that Russia had lesser role to play in defeating Napoleon and was even supporting him its quite likely that Prussia gets its Polish territories together with Austria, plus Westphalia region as Matternich and Austria would still want Prussia to have border with France , plus otl there was also deal with France on this one during Napoleonic wars.

Russia probably comes out with claim over Finland.

Otherwise im surprised that Ottomans didn't seek abolition of Russian rights to Protect Christians in Ottoman Empire? I would imagine the congress being a good chance for it.

Honestly a Prussia that has to deal with "digesting" poles in their areas instead of being focused too much on Germany does sound like a interesting thing to see

 

[Kriss]

Oops, I forgot about that.

Well, that question will be addressed eventually.

Technically it could be addressed via new war, but that's really a costly affair for little gain, so i imagine some sort of security deal regarding Straits and potentially Persia.

Generally deal with Russia that guarantees closed Straits to forgein Warships in exchange for Russia conceding its rights towards Ottoman Christians could be a good idea , it also happened otl as part of Treaty of Hünkâr İskelesi during Ottoman - Egyptian war. This deal would also be advantageous to Ottomans as opposed to Russia which has to divide its fleets to Baltic and Black Sea Ottomans with control over Straits and better economy can bear its full naval might on Russia. So this would be more of a reassurance treaty with Russia that confirms existing state in Black Sea aimed at keeping other actors out than some sort of alliance.

 

[Vinization]

Technically it could be addressed via new war, but that's really a costly affair for little gain, so i imagine some sort of security deal regarding Straits and potentially Persia.

Generally deal with Russia that guarantees closed Straits to forgein Warships in exchange for Russia conceding its rights towards Ottoman Christians could be a good idea , it also happened otl as part of Treaty of Hünkâr İskelesi during Ottoman - Egyptian war. This deal would also be advantageous to Ottomans as opposed to Russia which has to divide its fleets to Baltic and Black Sea Ottomans with control over Straits and better economy can bear its full naval might on Russia. So this would be more of a reassurance treaty with Russia that confirms existing state in Black Sea aimed at keeping other actors out than some sort of alliance.

I have plans for one last Russo-Turkish war to settle things between the two empires once and for all, so I'll use it to finally end the issue. Or maybe I'll just have relations between St. Petersburg and Constantinople slowly improve over the course of the century, to the point of it no longer mattering.

 

[Kurd Gossemer]

I have plans for one last Russo-Turkish war to settle things between the two empires once and for all, so I'll use it to finally end the issue. Or maybe I'll just have relations between St. Petersburg and Constantinople slowly improve over the course of the century, to the point of it no longer mattering.

The latter could work, especially if Russia indeed get Finland and their parts of Poland back and start expanding in Central Asia, although it makes me wonder if the latter wouldn't ignite some sort of war with Persia

 

[Polat32]

Would it feasible for the ottoman exchange their suzurainty of moldovia/ Wallachia for Southern caucuses. I feel like this would be a win win situation for both parties. The ottomans would gain Azeri population. While the Russian could exchange some of their turkic population for European ones.

 

[Vinization]

Would it feasible for the ottoman exchange their suzurainty of moldovia/ Wallachia for Southern caucuses. I feel like this would be a win win situation for both parties. The ottomans would gain Azeri population. While the Russian could exchange some of their turkic population for European ones.

You just reminded me I still need to write an update or two on the Qajars.

 

[Kriss]

The latter could work, especially if Russia indeed get Finland and their parts of Poland back and start expanding in Central Asia, although it makes me wonder if the latter wouldn't ignite some sort of war with Persia

I don't really think that Russia lost any part of Poland as Congress Poland was made mostly from Prussian and Austrian partition.

Though it could work since Russia is basically isolated if Frankfurt Proposal passed in current geopolitical climate, while one could say that it has alliance with France Napoleon didn't really prove himself as faithful ally, on other hand closeness with France probably means no holy league and alliance with Austria/Prussia (blessing in disguise really). On other hand...

I have plans for one last Russo-Turkish war to settle things between the two empires once and for all, so I'll use it to finally end the issue. Or maybe I'll just have relations between St. Petersburg and Constantinople slowly improve over the course of the century, to the point of it no longer mattering.

While costly it would be realistic and cement Ottoman ascendancy while putting any Russian aspirations to rest. You could technically do combination of both, a war followed with gradual improvement of relations as both powers realize that they don't have lot to gain from the war.

Would it feasible for the ottoman exchange their suzurainty of moldovia/ Wallachia for Southern caucuses. I feel like this would be a win win situation for both parties. The ottomans would gain Azeri population. While the Russian could exchange some of their turkic population for European ones.

That really doesn't solve the problem as Russia basically gets deeper into the Balkans, potentially a war followed with direct annexation of Wallachia/Moldova could do a lot to cement Sultans rule in Europe.

 

[MagicalPhantom345]

Surviving and rolling back colonialism? Yeah. A second Golden age of Islam? No. Because if we want that we'd have to screw Europe hard enough or wank Islam enough starting from a pod of 14th century. Even then it might be roughly equal civilization conflict between the two.

Unless the Ottomans start building up an anti colonial alliance with native states like the Omani Empire and the Sultanates that make up the Sahelian region of Northern Africa.

 

[MagicalPhantom345]

As for stuff like a constitution, Muhammad Ali's takeover of the state will have consequences.

You mean like the Government bearing a strong resemblance to the Shogunate of Japan?

 

[MagicalPhantom345]

You just reminded me I still need to write an update or two on the Qajars.

How will the Omani Empire fair now that it has a modernizing and centralizing neighbor?

 

[MagicalPhantom345]

While costly it would be realistic and cement Ottoman ascendancy while putting any Russian aspirations to rest. You could technically do combination of both, a war followed with gradual improvement of relations as both powers realize that they don't have lot to gain from the war.

Why not have Crimea stripped from Russia, thus making the need for a Black Sea fleet pointless?

 

[Vinization]

Unless the Ottomans start building up an anti colonial alliance with native states like the Omani Empire and the Sultanates that make up the Sahelian region of Northern Africa.

They are logical allies, as is Aceh.

You mean like the Government bearing a strong resemblance to the Shogunate of Japan?

Or the eventual creation of a system that clearly defines who should be in charge of what, so nobody becomes too big for their britches.

How will the Omani Empire fair now that it has a modernizing and centralizing neighbor?

Don't know, haven't researched them enough.

Why not have Crimea stripped from Russia, thus making the need for a Black Sea fleet pointless?

That would make Russia hate the OE forever, and they would not stop trying to get it back they succeed or fall apart.

 

[Red Angel]

Or the eventual creation of a system that clearly defines who should be in charge of what, so nobody becomes too big for their britches.

Honestly, I think that may be better for them if the Ottomans wants to deal with corruptions. (Emphasis on "may" thought)

 

[Ursogulos]

Muhammad Ali promulgate a consitutiobal monarchy like constitution???

Whoops, sorry was that your monarchial power? Don't cry, you are still a monarch, of sorts.

Honestly a Prussia that has to deal with "digesting" poles in their areas instead of being focused too much on Germany does sound like a interesting thing to see

No Prussian unification of Germany, or no Germany at all.

Anatolia is somewhat neglected compared to Rumelia and Egypt, and this will cause issues in the future.

As for stuff like a constitution, Muhammad Ali's takeover of the state will have consequences

Oh no, not another revolt in Anatolia.

Unless the Ottomans start building up an anti colonial alliance with native states like the Omani Empire and the Sultanates that make up the Sahelian region of Northern Africa.

An Ottoman sphere extending from Somali coast to trucial states is likely given the Pod. I'm optimistic but how would Ottomans deal with European encroachment on swahili or sahel would determine the outcome. If scramble for Africa still happens, it would depend on which European power stakes claim to the region. If It's big ones like Uk or France then Ottomans can do little outside protesting. If it's smaller powers, Ottoman can do better

 

[Cregan]

An Ottoman sphere extending from Somali coast to trucial states is likely given the Pod. I'm optimistic but how would Ottomans deal with European encroachment on swahili or sahel would determine the outcome. If scramble for Africa still happens, it would depend on which European power stakes claim to the region. If It's big ones like Uk or France then Ottomans can do little outside protesting. If it's smaller powers, Ottoman can do better

Can the Ottomans hold onto Libya, Tunisia and Algeria?

 

[haider najib]

Can the Ottomans hold onto Libya, Tunisia and Algeria?

Yes, surprised ottomans didn't ask to re-confirm their rule over North Africa at the Congress.