The Kingdom of Poland and the Fall of Communism in Eastern Europe

[Landshark]

In another thread I caught a reference to one of the causes of WW2 being the refusal of the King of Poland to negotiate over Danzig. Now of course we know that that's wrong as Poland has been a republic since 1918, but the idea does make me wonder just what would have happened if Poland had been created as a kingdom in 1918 and what would have occurred at the fall of the People's Republic in the 1990's?

So suppose the Poles get themselves a king or queen in the immediate aftermath of WW1, now this probably won't effect much of what happens between then and 1939 so whoever it is will most likely end up with the government in exile in London. After 1945 the Soviets will establish their control over Eastern Europe and like the kings of Romania and Bulgaria the Polish monarch will stay living in the West, with the fall of the Berlin Wall and the collapse of communism though things change. Unlike the kings of the other two countries a Polish king or queen wouldn't have to contend with the stigma of being part of governments allied to Nazi Germany so would there be a restoration?

 

[Danth]

In another thread I caught a reference to one of the causes of WW2 being the refusal of the King of Poland to negotiate over Danzig. Now of course we know that that's wrong as Poland has been a republic since 1918, but the idea does make me wonder just what would have happened if Poland had been created as a kingdom in 1918 and what would have occurred at the fall of the People's Republic in the 1990's?

So suppose the Poles get themselves a king or queen in the immediate aftermath of WW1, now this probably won't effect much of what happens between then and 1939 so whoever it is will most likely end up with the government in exile in London. After 1945 the Soviets will establish their control over Eastern Europe and like the kings of Romania and Bulgaria the Polish monarch will stay living in the West, with the fall of the Berlin Wall and the collapse of communism though things change. Unlike the kings of the other two countries a Polish king or queen wouldn't have to contend with the stigma of being part of governments allied to Nazi Germany so would there be a restoration?

Yugoslavia had a king and to be honest after so long of communism the monarchy is just to far out of touch with the people thats why it was a new government rather than the old exile one that has the legitimacy

 

[UncleDynamite]

In another thread I caught a reference to one of the causes of WW2 being the refusal of the King of Poland to negotiate over Danzig. Now of course we know that that's wrong as Poland has been a republic since 1918, but the idea does make me wonder just what would have happened if Poland had been created as a kingdom in 1918 and what would have occurred at the fall of the People's Republic in the 1990's?

So suppose the Poles get themselves a king or queen in the immediate aftermath of WW1, now this probably won't effect much of what happens between then and 1939 so whoever it is will most likely end up with the government in exile in London. After 1945 the Soviets will establish their control over Eastern Europe and like the kings of Romania and Bulgaria the Polish monarch will stay living in the West, with the fall of the Berlin Wall and the collapse of communism though things change. Unlike the kings of the other two countries a Polish king or queen wouldn't have to contend with the stigma of being part of governments allied to Nazi Germany so would there be a restoration?

The problem with this is that Poland didn't have a monarchical tradition in the same way most European countries did. The last hereditary King of Poland died in 1572(and even he had the pretenses of an election) and Polish kings were elected from then to Napoleon. To bring hereditary monarchy into Poland after that long would've been impossible.

You could bring in a popularly elected monarch, but that's basically a republican President that serves for life.

 

[Landshark]

Yugoslavia had a king and to be honest after so long of communism the monarchy is just to far out of touch with the people thats why it was a new government rather than the old exile one that has the legitimacy

I was going to mention Yugoslavia but decided not to for brevity.

Yugoslavia is a different case for two reasons. First the King of Yugoslavia was really just the King of Serbia with a new title and as such didn't maintain too much affection from the large numbers of non-Serbs that made up his kingdom. Second Yugoslavia more or less went from being a communist dictatorship to being a war zone with very little inbetween. I don't think our hypothetical King of Poland would have to deal with those problems.

 

[Pischinovski]

Not a single monarchy was restored after the fall of communism in eastern Europe in OTL. So that's a problem.
You also have to consider that the inter-war dynasty ruled only twenty years. Their claim to the throne is weak even if they descend from a former royal dynasty like Wettin.
And if a Wettin prince becomes Polish king and WW2 happens as OTL, then I dont think that the Poles want a German Prince again after 1990.

On the other hand:
If the king (lets call him Casimir) leads Poland successfully against the Soviets in the 20s and maybe dies the death of a political martyr against the Nazis during WW2, then the royal's might stay popular even under soviet rule.
Should John Paul II still become pope than King Casimir might become a saint.
The idea of reinstalling the royal house might appeal to the Poles after 1990 if the royals play their cards right.

I would say it is possible but difficult.

P.S. I am from Saxony and my ancestors are from Silesia so I always love TLs that include a restored house of Wettin

 

[Danth]

I was going to mention Yugoslavia but decided not to for brevity.

Yugoslavia is a different case for two reasons. First the King of Yugoslavia was really just the King of Serbia with a new title and as such didn't maintain too much affection from the large numbers of non-Serbs that made up his kingdom. Second Yugoslavia more or less went from being a communist dictatorship to being a war zone with very little inbetween. I don't think our hypothetical King of Poland would have to deal with those problems.

That is true on second thought, still after so long without the monarchy i doubt the majority of Polish people would want them back. When building a new state you make a republic not a monarchy its just the done thing

 

[Landshark]

The problem with this is that Poland didn't have a monarchical tradition in the same way most European countries did. The last hereditary King of Poland died in 1572(and even he had the pretenses of an election) and Polish kings were elected from then to Napoleon. To bring hereditary monarchy into Poland after that long would've been impossible.

You could bring in a popularly elected monarch, but that's basically a republican President that serves for life.

This is really more of a hypothetical examination of the idea of a King of Poland existing between 1945 and 2014 than a serious attempt to create a Kingdom of Poland post 1918. As such we can just handwave the problems of Poland's non-monarchical tradition and say "In 1918 Poland became a hereditary monarchy".

 

[Landshark]

That is true on second thought, still after so long without the monarchy i doubt the majority of Polish people would want them back. When building a new state you make a republic not a monarchy its just the done thing

Maybe, maybe not. As someone said on another thread around here during the 19th century the first thing any of the Balkan states did on achieving independence was to get themselves a king. Finland almost became a kingdom in 1918 and Spain had it's monarchy restored after the death of Franco so while new state equals republic is the most common thing it's not automatically set in stone.

 

[johnboy]

Not a single monarchy was restored after the fall of communism in eastern Europe in OTL. So that's a problem.
You also have to consider that the inter-war dynasty ruled only twenty years. Their claim to the throne is weak even if they descend from a former royal dynasty like Wettin.
And if a Wettin prince becomes Polish king and WW2 happens as OTL, then I dont think that the Poles want a German Prince again after 1990.

On the other hand:
If the king (lets call him Casimir) leads Poland successfully against the Soviets in the 20s and maybe dies the death of a political martyr against the Nazis during WW2, then the royal's might stay popular even under soviet rule.
Should John Paul II still become pope than King Casimir might become a saint.
The idea of reinstalling the royal house might appeal to the Poles after 1990 if the royals play their cards right.

I would say it is possible but difficult.

P.S. I am from Saxony and my ancestors are from Silesia so I always love TLs that include a restored house of Wettin

True but the ex Bulgarian King did become Prime Minister.

 

[abc123]

First the King of Yugoslavia was really just the King of Serbia with a new title and as such didn't maintain too much affection from the large numbers of non-Serbs that made up his kingdom.

This. The Monarchy in Yugoslavia also became a symbol for Serbian hegemony in Yugoslavia especially after King Alexander's introduction of dictatorship in January 1929.

 

[abc123]

And if a Wettin prince becomes Polish king and WW2 happens as OTL, then I dont think that the Poles want a German Prince again after 1990.

I will give you a example from my neighbourhood- Serbia. Today's pretendent of Serbian throne, allmost speaks no Serbian language. Having born and raised in London, he can be anything except attractive to Serbs. So a future king MUST speak Polish language fluently, be it in 1918 or 1990.
In short- he must be Polak, not German. So, how plausible seems that to you... IMHO, not too much, giving German ( racist- sorry guys, sad truth ) view on Poles in 1910-1920s...

Also, you must understand that Communism pretty sucessfully brainwashed people against monarchy, so having a King reinstated anywhere in Eastern Europe is EXTREMLY hard task.

 

[Uhura's Mazda]

he must be Polak, not German.

So who would be the best candidate from the Polish aristocracy? I think there was one Prince who became President or something, and there are the Czartoryskis, Zamoyskis, Poniatowskis, etc. Did any native Pole have enough money and popular support to enthrone himself in 1918?

 

[seraphim74]

IMHO, no. Money perhaps, support no. Poles were mostly pro-republican at the time although they had various ideas of a republic. Polish socialists and peasants would go ballistic, if someone tried to become a king.

 

[Imladrik]

True but the ex Bulgarian King did become Prime Minister.

And he was quickly defeated in the next election.

I don't hink it is possible as the 5 eastern monarchies (yes, Hungary was a monarchy, even if it had no ruler but a regent) that became republics after 1945 didn't switched back to a monarchy in 1990. And all of them had longer traditions of having an hereditary monarch, unlike Poland.