Tech Plausability Check: Crusader based APC

[trekchu]

I've seen it suggest elsewhere that it would be possible to design an APC around the chassis of the Crusader Tank. Now in my AAR, I have loads of obsolete Crusaders sitting around in Britain and North Africa, and a need for APCs, and so I was of course interested. My question for the more tech savvy than me is: Can it be done? Time and money isn't important, since it isn't that urgent.


EDIT: Here's a picture of a Crusader-based Gun tractor, the closest I could find to what I had in mind for the idea.

 

[FlyingDutchman]

Trekchu;

did you see the picture on the wiki for the Crusader of Argentine SP-Crusaders? Those had a slightly bigger (and higher) and seemingly entirely enclosed box?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:EA_SP_Crusader_1940s.jpg

The Crusader was relatively well motorised with apparently a slightly higher hp/tonne then the M4. Assumedly that means you can add relatively a lot of weight for a boxy, armoured superstructure without overstraining the engine.
(although it's ofcourse only armed with a 2-pounder; so removing the gun+turret will gain you a lot less weight reduction then removing most of the other tankgun+turret)

Still, it's basically less armoured to start with then an M4, so I don't know how good a result you'll be getting.
Ofcourse it'll still be much better protected then a purpose-built personnel carrier like a M3 halftrack or a Sd.Kfz.251.

 

[Wanderlust]

Hm, I see no reason why not. Many other tanks were Kangarooed in the same fashion. I think you just need someone with the right instance of lateral thinking...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kangaroo_(armoured_personnel_carrier)

 

[trekchu]

This looks fine... In the beginning when I was contemplating partial mechanization of British and later Allied Infantry I was thinking of having the Brits copy either the German or American APCs, but with literally hundreds of Crusaders sitting around and waiting to be scrapped...


Wanderlust: *facepalm* I can't believe I missed that one...

FlyingDutchman: Hmmm... That reminds me... I was going to introduce some sort of Self-propelled Artillery anyway. *strokes chin in evil genius fashion*

Too bad there's so few pictures of them out there.

 

[Some Bloke]

Well the good people at France Fights On think this is possible. By the beginning of 1943 if memory serves the Nuffield run of Crusaders has been converted into a fully enclosed APC with a twin 15mm BESA turret and it is decided that all subsequent Crusaders are modified accordingly.

 

[trekchu]

Admittedly I got the idea from a recently posted piece on the Naval Fiction Board, where the APOD (the relaunched FFO-project now that FFO itself is being published for real) people did something similar.

 

[Hades]

for a minute there i thought you were talking about the cancelled crusader artillery.

 

[Bernard Woolley]

It's perfectly plausible. Btw Mark L. Bailey has used them in APOD on NavWeaps. It wouldn't be too different from the Ram Kangaroo.

 

[trekchu]

It's perfectly plausible. Btw Mark L. Bailey has used them in APOD on NavWeaps. It wouldn't be too different from the Ram Kangaroo.

TBH, that post was what gave me the idea.

 

[Bernard Woolley]

I'd say that if Mark and Shane have suggested it than it is technically possible. They'll have looked into the issue in some detail.

 

[FlyingDutchman]

It's perfectly plausible. Btw Mark L. Bailey has used them in APOD on NavWeaps. It wouldn't be too different from the Ram Kangaroo.

If I understand the Kangaroo correctly it would be very different and the two wouldn't be very comparable;
The later Kangaroo was a Canadian M3 tank without it's turret (the early ones were redundant M7's with the firing port welded shut) and presto!
The personnel were pretty much sitting in the open turretring.

This Crusader personnel carrier would be a Crusader with a rebuilt; a boxy superstructure added. This would be a slighty more extensive modification while using mostly just the chassis of the Crusader.

 

[Cockroach]

EDIT: Here's a picture of a Crusader-based Gun tractor, the closest I could find to what I had in mind for the idea.

Methinks your pic answeres your own question. Yep, a simple APC conversion (build armoured box on top of chassis) is doable, not so sure about the more ambitious proto-M113 type design APOD has pulled out though.

Then there is also the question of is it the best use for 'em... I haven't been following your AAR but it might be worthwhile asking if using the hulls for SP-artillary or Tank Destroyers may be of more immediate use.

 

[trekchu]

Methinks your pic answeres your own question. Yep, a simple APC conversion (build armoured box on top of chassis) is doable, not so sure about the more ambitious proto-M113 type design APOD has pulled out though.

Then there is also the question of is it the best use for 'em... I haven't been following your AAR but it might be worthwhile asking if using the hulls for SP-artillary or Tank Destroyers may be of more immediate use.

Tank Destroyers are not needed because the Allies are using the 17pdr as their main tank armament, and SP artillery isn't (yet) needed because for most of the war the front moved slow enough for normal towed Artillery to keep up.