Wonder how many of the post war elections *wouldn't* flip if New York went to the other party...
Sequel de Mayo (Cinco de Mayo, Vol. II)
- Thread starter KingSweden24
- Start date
Another thing I am wondering is if there will be another franchise expansion in Hungary as was explained in one of 1914's updates. Historically around this time only 6-8% of the Hungarian population can vote, which is 17% TTL, so a more reformist leadership is in place who may be willing to expand it further.
Hoke Smith may be the most at fault out of anyone
That’s earlier than I thought, actually!
The Senate did have a substantial filibuster at this point though, yes. One reason why Hearst’s program was so successful was Congressional supermajorities, even if the filibuster was used way less back then
While this is true, it does take on an ideological component of rural “purity” in a lot of societies to justify continued disproportionate representation
Sort of/probably? I’d probably want to find a different name for it then rather than “Catholic integralism” and “Protestant integralism”
I’ll be using this soon! Looks great!
New York’s dominance is so absurd on this map that, yeah, the Electoral College starts being redundant
Dev getting elected in 1924ish to the Senate would get him close, in that case. Maybe he’s a state-level official in NJ (@Couperin suggested he be tied in with Frank Hague) for a bit before making the plunge in the early 1920s?
That, and it’s just inefficient and archaic even by the 1920s (to say nothing of present day). It’s already essentially just “whoever wins New York wins” and the Liberals could credibly have lost a severe EV/PV split in 1912, a narrow split nearly occurred in 1900 had 0.8% of Iowa’s vote gone differently, and we had one in 1880 already.
We’ll have to do that math when the time comes!
Hold that thought…
(My Hungarian updates are based on conversations I’ve had with @Rion_marcus who pointed out to me that by the OTL mid-1910s the Hungarian franchise was more like 12-13%, so here it’s only marginally more)
Okay, my suggestion is that Dev starts in Hudson County, as most of the Democratic Irish politicians did. It's important to note that before suburbanization started in earnest, NJ's population, especially its immigrant population, was heavily concentrated in the urban northern counties of Hudson and Essex, and Hudson in particular was the center of the NJ Dems from the Civil War (same reason as the Irish draft rioters in NYC) up through WW2. De Valera would be a massive move - an open supporter of Irish independence from the UK and a proud Catholic would be quite the sea change. Maybe have him become Mayor of Union City or maybe win a Hudson-based congressional district, then have him win whenever you want him to win?
That’s a terrible take. For at least the last century rural regions have been as completely dependent on the industry of unban and suburban ones as the latter have been on their agriculture.
dcharles
Banned
Everyone in society is dependent on everyone else (although food is more important than widgets). But the OP didn't seem to understand why rural regions have and want disproportionate influence. In my (apparently terrible) opinion, that is why.
dcharles
Banned
Sure. I think you may be confusing my explanation of a phenomenon with me saying that phenomenon is right and good. Like I said, all of society is reliant on all the other parts of society. But that doesn't mean that society's component parts agree on their relative importance, or even understand how they are interrelated.
Slight detour:
Is the Mexican nobility basically a mixture of French, austro-hungarian/German and Spanish? And whatever Mexican landowners there are?
Is the Mexican nobility basically a mixture of French, austro-hungarian/German and Spanish? And whatever Mexican landowners there are?
I like that - it'd take him a while to really work his way up the ladder, after all.
Correct. Lots of extant landowners were ennobled and then some foreigners, too. Hungarian nobility is disproportionately represented there, as typified by the Crown Princess Margarita Clementina
Second Wave: The Progressive Revolution of the 1920s
"...architecture of much of what would come to be proposed can be seen as early as the 1916 election; despite being regarded as a conservative Democrat, George McClellan, Jr., full-throatedly endorsed amendments to the United States Constitution banning child-labor and guaranteeing women the vote, making him the first Democrat do not just one but both, while in the LaFollette Report that was released in late October, the contours of good government measures could be seen in his investigations of not just his immediate remit of price-fixing and corruption in procurement contracts (though nothing as politically explosive as the affair that took down Naval Secretary Richard Ballinger the year before) but also recommendations drafted by his committee co-chair, "Honest" John Shafroth of Colorado, which went into logistics issues that were related not to graft but to inefficiencies, poor planning, and simple human errors that were thought to be correctable with better redundancies and foresight.
Demobilization overshadowed the Army's efforts to implement some of the report's suggestions - War Secretary Stimson was one of the few Liberal officials sympathetic to LaFollette's aims, with some going so far as to blame his report for their perceived underperformance in the 1916 elections mere weeks after its publication and the full presentation of its findings by newspapers. Nonetheless, it was an important hour, as it was one of the first times in American history that progressive thinking took a look at the structures which had been born in the First Progressive Era and interrogated whether and how well they were doing what they were intended, and also which sought to challenge graft in the military, especially the Army, which had always been ignored for the flashier, more obvious procurement challenges of the Navy. Though long-forgotten today, the LaFollette Committee's work in 1915-16 was hugely important in reinvigorating in particular its Democratic members' interest in the issues at hand and refining Congress' duty of oversight, a key legacy of the years to come..."
- Second Wave: The Progressive Revolution of the 1920s
Demobilization overshadowed the Army's efforts to implement some of the report's suggestions - War Secretary Stimson was one of the few Liberal officials sympathetic to LaFollette's aims, with some going so far as to blame his report for their perceived underperformance in the 1916 elections mere weeks after its publication and the full presentation of its findings by newspapers. Nonetheless, it was an important hour, as it was one of the first times in American history that progressive thinking took a look at the structures which had been born in the First Progressive Era and interrogated whether and how well they were doing what they were intended, and also which sought to challenge graft in the military, especially the Army, which had always been ignored for the flashier, more obvious procurement challenges of the Navy. Though long-forgotten today, the LaFollette Committee's work in 1915-16 was hugely important in reinvigorating in particular its Democratic members' interest in the issues at hand and refining Congress' duty of oversight, a key legacy of the years to come..."
- Second Wave: The Progressive Revolution of the 1920s
1916 United States Presidential election (Wikibox)
The 1916 United States Presidential election was the 33rd quadrennial United States Presidential election, held on November 7, 1916 to elect the electors to choose the President of the United States. The incumbent President, Charles Evans Hughes of the Liberal Party, did not seek a second term; the Secretary of State in his Cabinet, Elihu Root, defeated the Democratic nominee, former Senator George McClellan Jr. It was the second consecutive election in which both nominees were New Yorkers and the fourth straight election in which the Democrats nominated a New Yorker as their candidate; it was also the first election since 1880 in which an incumbent President elected not to seek reelection after being elected to a single term of their own right, an the first time since 1876 that in such a situation the party holding the Presidency retained it.
The previous three years had been defined by the Great American War, which began in September of 1913 with the invasion of Maryland by the Confederate States and the evacuation of the federal government to Philadelphia after six months of deteriorating negotiations; as such, Hughes had served almost exclusively as a war President for his entire term. After the Confederacy achieved its high-water mark in early 1914, the rest of the war was a steady advance by the United States and her allies against the Confederacy and her allies in Mexico and South America, punctuated by disastrous defeats on land at Nashville and at sea at Hilton Head by the CSA in May of 1915. Shortly before the conventions for both parties began in July 1916, the Confederate capital of Richmond and its chief logistics node at Atlanta both fell, and Hughes - exhausted mentally and physically from three years of war - was confident enough in ensuing victory to elect to not seek another term.
While Liberals expected that the pending victory would deliver them a historic landslide, as would the solid public reputation of their compromise candidate in Root - who had served in four Cabinet offices over the previous twenty-four years - McClellan ran a spirited campaign while Root, at 71 the oldest nominee in American history, preferred a laid-back operation reminiscent of the "front-porch campaigns" of the 19th century from his townhome in Philadelphia as he continued in his diplomatic duties there, and with turnout relatively low due to the war, his popular vote margin was much narrower than expected even as he more or less mirrored Hughes' comfortable, but not overwhelming, electoral vote margin of four years prior. The result, in which New York was once again the decisive state and which Root won by less than his national margin, once again raised concerns about the criticality of that state in national elections as effectively forcing New Yorkers upon both parties (and, to a lesser extent, Ohioans as running mates), and the 1916 elections were the penultimate contest to use the electoral college rather than a pure popular vote system. Despite rumors [1] that Hughes would resign to allow Root to take the Presidency early to avoid a wartime transition, the Confederacy sued for peace four days later - November 11, now celebrated as Victory Day - and Root would preside over the peace negotiations as his inauguration approached, at which point, at 72 years old, he became the oldest President at the time of his inauguration, a record that would stand for sixteen years.
Wikibox Credit: @GDIS Pathe
[1] There's a rumor that Wilson pondered doing this in the event that Hughes beat him in 1916; since Hughes and Root are co-partisans, there's even less reason Hughes would do this than Wilson, and the reasons why Wilson wouldn't have done this are plentiful, too.
The previous three years had been defined by the Great American War, which began in September of 1913 with the invasion of Maryland by the Confederate States and the evacuation of the federal government to Philadelphia after six months of deteriorating negotiations; as such, Hughes had served almost exclusively as a war President for his entire term. After the Confederacy achieved its high-water mark in early 1914, the rest of the war was a steady advance by the United States and her allies against the Confederacy and her allies in Mexico and South America, punctuated by disastrous defeats on land at Nashville and at sea at Hilton Head by the CSA in May of 1915. Shortly before the conventions for both parties began in July 1916, the Confederate capital of Richmond and its chief logistics node at Atlanta both fell, and Hughes - exhausted mentally and physically from three years of war - was confident enough in ensuing victory to elect to not seek another term.
While Liberals expected that the pending victory would deliver them a historic landslide, as would the solid public reputation of their compromise candidate in Root - who had served in four Cabinet offices over the previous twenty-four years - McClellan ran a spirited campaign while Root, at 71 the oldest nominee in American history, preferred a laid-back operation reminiscent of the "front-porch campaigns" of the 19th century from his townhome in Philadelphia as he continued in his diplomatic duties there, and with turnout relatively low due to the war, his popular vote margin was much narrower than expected even as he more or less mirrored Hughes' comfortable, but not overwhelming, electoral vote margin of four years prior. The result, in which New York was once again the decisive state and which Root won by less than his national margin, once again raised concerns about the criticality of that state in national elections as effectively forcing New Yorkers upon both parties (and, to a lesser extent, Ohioans as running mates), and the 1916 elections were the penultimate contest to use the electoral college rather than a pure popular vote system. Despite rumors [1] that Hughes would resign to allow Root to take the Presidency early to avoid a wartime transition, the Confederacy sued for peace four days later - November 11, now celebrated as Victory Day - and Root would preside over the peace negotiations as his inauguration approached, at which point, at 72 years old, he became the oldest President at the time of his inauguration, a record that would stand for sixteen years.
Wikibox Credit: @GDIS Pathe
[1] There's a rumor that Wilson pondered doing this in the event that Hughes beat him in 1916; since Hughes and Root are co-partisans, there's even less reason Hughes would do this than Wilson, and the reasons why Wilson wouldn't have done this are plentiful, too.
Nice, no "return to normalcy" (ie, conservatism) in this USA's Roaring Twenties. Cool change of pace you have planned.
Congrats to @LordVorKon for picking 11/11 in our mini-contest back in the day!
John Pershing turns 73 in 1933. 👀👀
Is this going to be the peak of Liberal "Meritocracy is King" sentiment?
Also, who could it be? They'd be born 1860 at the latest.
Is Pershing a Liberal or a Democrat?
Liberal. Or at least "not a Democrat." Would be hilarious if he ran and won as a Socialist but he seems like a Liberal here.
Better yet, the independent candidate elected on a platform of paying the troops their damn bonus some idiot in the government decided to delay!
I'm only half-joking.
Thanks! The idea of the flappers AND New Deal style reforms being paired was hard to resist haha
And indeed he does
Yes, though as we’ll see later on the elite cliquish-ness around Cabinet offices never quite goes away fully. But the Root era is where this sentiment’s flaws are laid bare
More like Red Jack amirite?!
I did not make this one - @GDIS Pathe made it
Beautiful infobox. There is one thing I should comment on however. Aesthetically speaking, the arrangement of the 32 stars on the flag could really use some work. I realize this is the OTL flag from that time, but perhaps this can serve as incentive to add more states after all is said and done.
We’ve still got several states to go, fear not! (I agree on your aesthetic argument re: the flag irregardless haha)