Russia and Germany invade England

[bobthechicken]

What would happen if instead of simply Germany, Germany and Russia both attacked England in 1940?

Would the sheer power of numbers overwhelm the British, or would they fight back? Germany would have a better chance to launch a ground attack earlier and possibly establish a presence in southern England.
What do you think would have happened?

 

[Emperor Norton I]

The Soviet navy wasn't great.

 

[bobthechicken]

The Soviet navy wasn't great.

True, yet the German's was pretty good.

 

[Matteo]

The german navy was not a match for the Royal Navy.

 

[Bad@logic]

In short? No.

In detail? Very very much no. The Russians have no modern battleships, *2* modern cruisers, and an admittedly large sum of destroyers and submarines - although these are split into multiple fleets which cannot easily join together. Their addition of strength to the Germans is negligible, especially when one takes into account purges, inter-"allied" distrust, and Soviet inexperience. Against the world's largest navy, and a rather competent one, this is not going to cut it.

Politically the effects are huge, but militarily the effects are of little consequence - in the short term.

 

[bobthechicken]

In short? No.

In detail? Very very much no. The Russians have no modern battleships, *2* modern cruisers, and an admittedly large sum of destroyers and submarines - although these are split into multiple fleets which cannot easily join together. Their addition of strength to the Germans is negligible, especially when one takes into account purges, inter-"allied" distrust, and Soviet inexperience. Against the world's largest navy, and a rather competent one, this is not going to cut it.

Politically the effects are huge, but militarily the effects are of little consequence - in the short term.

True, since Russia didn't have much of an air force at that time either, the only way they could really assist the Germans would be with ground forces, and therefore the Germans would still have to establish air superiority, so really, nothing could really happen. Unless...

 

[Mike D]

What would happen if instead of simply Germany, Germany and Russia both attacked England in 1940?

Would the sheer power of numbers overwhelm the British, or would they fight back? Germany would have a better chance to launch a ground attack earlier and possibly establish a presence in southern England.
What do you think would have happened?

The Royal Navy and Royal Air Force between them kill even more soldiers and Axis sailors in the Channel than they would have if it had been a purely German operation.

The Royal Navy can slaughter the entire naval forces of both nations without breaking a sweat.

 

[MattII]

What did the Russians have in the way of landing-craft analogues?

 

[bobthechicken]

What did the Russians have in the way of landing-craft analogues?

I don't think they had any.

 

[sharlin]

Ships boats and that was about it. Basically lifeboats.

 

[bobthechicken]

Ships boats and that was about it. Basically lifeboats.

If they had used those it would just be mass slaughter if a landing was attempted.

 

[bobthechicken]

Still, if Hitler had launched a ground attack immediately after the fall of France with Russian troops, could they have succeeded?

 

[MattII]

I don't think they had any.

Ships boats and that was about it. Basically lifeboats.

So not even canal barges then? Still I can imagine their T-37/38s would have been of some minor use in the initial landing, their being amphibious after all, even if they are just tracked armoured cars.

Still, if Hitler had launched a ground attack immediately after the fall of France with Russian troops, could they have succeeded?

No.

 

[sharlin]

If they had used those it would just be mass slaughter if a landing was attempted.

True but it would require them to get near any place for a landing for said landing to begin. The Soviet fleet in WW2 was a joke, a few obsolete BB's from WW1 that had barely recived any modernisation, 3 older cruisers, 2 modern heavy cruisers based on Italian designs (Read VERY fragile) and a mixbag of destroyers, again most of them old.

 

[MattII]

Plus submarines, which might tip the balance in the Atlantic.

 

[Emperor Norton I]

I don't know the interest the Soviets could ever have in invading Britain. It's far away from the Soviets and it would be all too difficult to invade and subjugate.

What did the Russians have in the way of landing-craft analogues?

The floating bodies of the first wave.

 

[bobthechicken]

Plus submarines, which might tip the balance in the Atlantic.

It might have actually stopped all convoys to britain, with the u-boats as well.

 

[Mike D]

Still, if Hitler had launched a ground attack immediately after the fall of France with Russian troops, could they have succeeded?

They'd have got a bit wet just north of Calais...

 

[sharlin]

It might have actually stopped all convoys to britain, with the u-boats as well.

Almost all the Soviet boats were costal types without the range for work in the Atlantic, there's also the yawing chasam in training difference.

 

[Cymraeg]

It might have actually stopped all convoys to britain, with the u-boats as well.

I don't think that the Soviet submarine fleet - which wasn't really built for Atlantic conditions and which would have been operating a thousand miles away from home - would have had much of an impact, other than to provide ASDIC practice for the Royal Navy.