Rumsfeldia: Fear and Loathing in the Decade of Tears

[teg]

I kinda get the impression South Africa's going to kill any attempt at redeeming the Confederacy if only because of the fact that Malan is effectively going to nuke the bejeezus out of Africa. That, and because of the US government supporting Malan's regime, you might see questions arise as to whether or not a theoretical surviving Confederacy would've gone down the same path as Malan.

Or we could see a more libertarian version of Lost Causism which argues that while the CSA was a bit racist, it was the last bastion of resistance to the industrial tyranny the United States became and wasn't really a threat to anyone (and maybe would have reformed at a latter date). Not really more honest historically or morally but at least defensible given the events of this timeline.

teg

 

[Kung Fucious]

It occurs to me that the Lost Cause will end up a lot stronger ITTL- with the actual example of a tyrannical federal government, there will be those who argue that the CSA was a (sadly racist, but 'not as bad as some liberals say') attempt to deal with the fundamental rot in the constitution, et cetera.

Nasty thought.

Yeah, post-Rumsfeld historiography is gonna be weird. I don't think the Confederacy is gonna get rehabilitated (since Rumsfeld's also hitched his wagon to emphasizing racial divisions and racist leanings to keep the opposition divided), but you'd probably see the earlier proto-CSA movements (like the Nullification crisis) get reconfigured to fit the "Strong Federal Government Bad" consensus that's certainly going to develop once Rumsfeld finally gets that 9mm headache he's been working towards.

On the bright side, this means that Andrew Jackson is almost certainly going to be seen as one of the worst historical Presidents.

 

[Landshark]

Yeah, post-Rumsfeld historiography is gonna be weird. I don't think the Confederacy is gonna get rehabilitated (since Rumsfeld's also hitched his wagon to emphasizing racial divisions and racist leanings to keep the opposition divided), but you'd probably see the earlier proto-CSA movements (like the Nullification crisis) get reconfigured to fit the "Strong Federal Government Bad" consensus that's certainly going to develop once Rumsfeld finally gets that 9mm headache he's been working towards.

Given the amount of out-sourcing to private companies that the Rumsfeld administration has done will there be a feeling of "Strong Federal Government Bad"? Perhaps it will create a feeling of "Strong Federal Government Not Properly Controlled By The Public Bad" will arise instead.

On a side note would it be a 9mm headache? The US military made the switch from the .45 M1911 to the 9 mm M9 in the mid 80's. The M9 is of course a European design, by Beretta in Italy, and the switch was made at least in part to bring things in line with the US's European NATO allies. I wonder just what weapons the US is using in TTL, other than the fact that they're rubbish we don't know much about them.

 

[wilji1090]

Given the amount of out-sourcing to private companies that the Rumsfeld administration has done will there be a feeling of "Strong Federal Government Bad"? Perhaps it will create a feeling of "Strong Federal Government Not Properly Controlled By The Public Bad" will arise instead.

Do you think the United States, in whatever capacity it survives in, would become one of the most staunch defenders of democracy and human rights Post-Rumsfeldia in the same way that Germany did after Hitler?

 

[David Ritz]

Do you think the United States, in whatever capacity it survives in, would become one of the most staunch defenders of democracy and human rights Post-Rumsfeldia in the same way that Germany did after Hitler?

Not immediately afterwards anyway. The Christian Voice people are open in the fact that they will simply use Rumsfeld's authoritarian apparatus for their own political purposes when they seize power. In fact, if they declare martial law, it will be even worse than Rumsfeldia. Constitutional government will likely not return until sometime in the early 1990s. At that time, the United States' superpower status will be over (although it may maintain great power status). Therefore, the military-industrial complex that drove the United States to engage in some many un-democratic foreign policy (and eventually domestic policy) decisions during the Cold War will be obsolete. This will especially be true if We The People takes control. My only fear is that the really radical left takes over after the end of the unconstitutional period.

 

[Blair]

Do you think the United States, in whatever capacity it survives in, would become one of the most staunch defenders of democracy and human rights Post-Rumsfeldia in the same way that Germany did after Hitler?

It's certainly plausible, but much like Germany the new US will be extremely wary of having any military commitment abroad to back up any pro human rights rhetoric.

 

[wilji1090]

It's certainly plausible, but much like Germany the new US will be extremely wary of having any military commitment abroad to back up any pro human rights rhetoric.

Why do I get the feeling a Post-Rumsfeldia USA will have a secret police called "The Federal Office for the Protection of the Constitution"?

 

[Kevin R.]

Or we could see a more libertarian version of Lost Causism which argues that while the CSA was a bit racist, it was the last bastion of resistance to the industrial tyranny the United States became and wasn't really a threat to anyone (and maybe would have reformed at a latter date). Not really more honest historically or morally but at least defensible given the events of this timeline.

teg

I could see this dovetailing with some of the ideology of Ted Kaczynski, the Unabomber. Maybe some of the libertarian communities out west decide that Rumsfeld-style corporate tyranny on the right and Soviet-style communist tyranny on the left are the natural endpoints of industrial civilization, and that modern technology and industry are fundamentally incompatible with liberty. One consequence of Rumsfeldia could be the emergence of neo-Luddism among these and other anti-authority types, with Kaczynski (or a similar figure) becoming a leading light in such a movement. They'd need guns to fight tyranny, of course, but they'd likely build them in small machine/smithing shops rather than factories, taking a very fetishized view of the local craftsman and businessman against the twin devils of Big Business and Big Government.

 

[oreocruncher]

Why do I get the feeling a Post-Rumsfeldia USA will have a secret police called "The Federal Office for the Protection of the Constitution"?

Though they're known for being somewhat incompetent, rather than threatening...
Also, they monitor Scientology for some reason...

 

[Miss Teri]

I could see this dovetailing with some of the ideology of Ted Kaczynski, the Unabomber. Maybe some of the libertarian communities out west decide that Rumsfeld-style corporate tyranny on the right and Soviet-style communist tyranny on the left are the natural endpoints of industrial civilization, and that modern technology and industry are fundamentally incompatible with liberty. One consequence of Rumsfeldia could be the emergence of neo-Luddism among these and other anti-authority types, with Kaczynski (or a similar figure) becoming a leading light in such a movement. They'd need guns to fight tyranny, of course, but they'd likely build them in small machine/smithing shops rather than factories, taking a very fetishized view of the local craftsman and businessman against the twin devils of Big Business and Big Government.

I felt the reason Drew brought him up earlier was that Kaczynski was going to play a large role later on. Maybe taking vigilante justice on the people who carried out Rumfeld's environmental policies.

 

[Kammada]

Also, they monitor Scientology for some reason...

As if there was something wrong with this

 

[Alpha-King98760]

I can say one thing absolute certainty. As Rumsfeld stays in power, and organised armed resistance mounts against his rule, the more paranoid he becomes lashing out at enemies (real or imagined).

 

[oreocruncher]

As if there was something wrong with this

I don't see it as a bad thing myself, but there has been some Americans who do...

 

[Cylon_Number_14]

I could see this dovetailing with some of the ideology of Ted Kaczynski, the Unabomber. Maybe some of the libertarian communities out west decide that Rumsfeld-style corporate tyranny on the right and Soviet-style communist tyranny on the left are the natural endpoints of industrial civilization, and that modern technology and industry are fundamentally incompatible with liberty. One consequence of Rumsfeldia could be the emergence of neo-Luddism among these and other anti-authority types, with Kaczynski (or a similar figure) becoming a leading light in such a movement. They'd need guns to fight tyranny, of course, but they'd likely build them in small machine/smithing shops rather than factories, taking a very fetishized view of the local craftsman and businessman against the twin devils of Big Business and Big Government.

This in turn sounds like one end of Rumsfeldia would be like the back story to the (novel version at least) of The Postman.

 

[Spengler]

Sounds to me like distributism could become very popular in post rumsfeldian America. PLus being that the catholic church will likely have a reaction to its current pope but tat the same time see what fundamentalist Christianity and extreme capitalism has done, so it will offer a third way.

 

[Whumbly]

You know what I'd like to see, the Rumsfeldia version of 'They Live'. Plays of the paranoia that all of America's enemies, no matter how disconnected they may seem, are united in their plot to 'destroy freedom'.

These aliens, supported by human collaborators (depicted as union leaders, non-Republican politicians and as a surprise twist an aged Veteran of the China Campaign who was believed to simply be a nervous wreck, only to discover that he was faking it to avoid doing his duty. Showcasing that no one is above suspicion) plan to turn the world into a colony and exploit it's resources for their Imperialist goals. Only an All-American handyman with the aid of his local church can reveal their evil plot through the power of Rumsfeld.

 

[Wayside]

You know what I'd like to see, the Rumsfeldia version of 'They Live'. Plays of the paranoia that all of America's enemies, no matter how disconnected they may seem, are united in their plot to 'destroy freedom'.

These aliens, supported by human collaborators (depicted as union leaders, non-Republican politicians and as a surprise twist an aged Veteran of the China Campaign who was believed to simply be a nervous wreck, only to discover that he was faking it to avoid doing his duty. Showcasing that no one is above suspicion) plan to turn the world into a colony and exploit it's resources for their Imperialist goals. Only an All-American handyman with the aid of his local church can reveal their evil plot through the power of Rumsfeld.

That sounds like an excellent example of Rumsfeldian cinema, although I don't think they'd bring up imperialism. That reminds me: what would this TL's version of The Warriors be like? Less outlandish outfits and more focus on the police, perhaps?

 

[Spengler]

You know what I'd like to see, the Rumsfeldia version of 'They Live'. Plays of the paranoia that all of America's enemies, no matter how disconnected they may seem, are united in their plot to 'destroy freedom'.

These aliens, supported by human collaborators (depicted as union leaders, non-Republican politicians and as a surprise twist an aged Veteran of the China Campaign who was believed to simply be a nervous wreck, only to discover that he was faking it to avoid doing his duty. Showcasing that no one is above suspicion) plan to turn the world into a colony and exploit it's resources for their Imperialist goals. Only an All-American handyman with the aid of his local church can reveal their evil plot through the power of Rumsfeld.

Carpenter is a very left wing Canadian. He just makes the movie in Canada, makes it even more political, and have the head alien be an obvious Rumsfeld stand in.

 

[Kevin R.]

You know what I'd like to see, the Rumsfeldia version of 'They Live'. Plays of the paranoia that all of America's enemies, no matter how disconnected they may seem, are united in their plot to 'destroy freedom'.

These aliens, supported by human collaborators (depicted as union leaders, non-Republican politicians and as a surprise twist an aged Veteran of the China Campaign who was believed to simply be a nervous wreck, only to discover that he was faking it to avoid doing his duty. Showcasing that no one is above suspicion) plan to turn the world into a colony and exploit it's resources for their Imperialist goals. Only an All-American handyman with the aid of his local church can reveal their evil plot through the power of Rumsfeld.

That's definitely an interesting idea. It probably wouldn't be made by John Carpenter, though, given the themes of OTL's They Live and many of his other films (particularly Escape from New York -- now that movie would fit right into Rumsfeldia). I wonder what happened to Carpenter -- he may have fled to the UK like many other filmmakers with suspect politics, or his career may have simply fizzled in the increasingly corporate Hollywood environment given that his '80s films were usually cult hits at best. Many of his films during that time only became hits on home video, and with TTL's Supreme Court having upheld the ban on videocassettes at the urging of the film and TV companies, that avenue is gone, at least in the US.

I also wonder how history is gonna treat the pop culture of '80s America. We've seen that Hollywood's basically either gung-ho propaganda or dripping Hallmark sentimentalism on the level of Christian films, with the Oscars having lost all credibility after being thoroughly politicized. Pop music is probably the same way, with manufactured, squeaky-clean idol singers for the kids and teens, heartland/arena rock for the grownups (albeit very sanitized; I imagine folks like Bruce Springsteen and Tom Petty are very much blacklisted for various reasons), and R&B still ghettoized as "black music" rather than enjoying crossover success like Prince, Michael, and Janet did. Something tells me that just about everyone, save for a few diehard, far-right nostalgics, is gonna utterly cringe at the memory of '80s movies and music, save for the underground stuff that managed to slip past the censors' notice, and not just because of its political associations.

 

[David Ritz]

That's definitely an interesting idea. It probably wouldn't be made by John Carpenter, though, given the themes of OTL's They Live and many of his other films (particularly Escape from New York -- now that movie would fit right into Rumsfeldia). I wonder what happened to Carpenter -- he may have fled to the UK like many other filmmakers with suspect politics, or his career may have simply fizzled in the increasingly corporate Hollywood environment given that his '80s films were usually cult hits at best. Many of his films during that time only became hits on home video, and with TTL's Supreme Court having upheld the ban on videocassettes at the urging of the film and TV companies, that avenue is gone, at least in the US.

I also wonder how history is gonna treat the pop culture of '80s America. We've seen that Hollywood's basically either gung-ho propaganda or dripping Hallmark sentimentalism on the level of Christian films, with the Oscars having lost all credibility after being thoroughly politicized. Pop music is probably the same way, with manufactured, squeaky-clean idol singers for the kids and teens, heartland/arena rock for the grownups (albeit very sanitized; I imagine folks like Bruce Springsteen and Tom Petty are very much blacklisted for various reasons), and R&B still ghettoized as "black music" rather than enjoying crossover success like Prince, Michael, and Janet did. Something tells me that just about everyone, save for a few diehard, far-right nostalgics, is gonna utterly cringe at the memory of '80s movies and music, save for the underground stuff that managed to slip past the censors' notice, and not just because of its political associations.

Don't forget from the last major update that the Old World is currently undergoing a cultural renaissance from the influx of expatriates forced out of the States by Rumsfeld. It is a lot like a mirror of the brain drain of Europe of the 1930s, when a flood of scientists, artists, politicians, etc fled to the New World for their own safety. Come to think of it, perhaps the USSR will become a major outlet for popular culture with the breakdown of Hollywood's international markets. If fact the Soviet Union was a major centre for "Eastern Animation" during its existence. Japan will certainly become a major market for popular culture. In addition, British pop culture is liking enjoying a similar prestige that it did in OTL.

Although the USSR is ironically more sane than the US in this alternate reality, the idea of the USSR as the world's sole superpower in the 1990s chills me. Based on its response to the Chinese Caliphatists, it seems that the USSR is already starting to take on a "World's Policeman" role similar to the US in the dying days of the OTL Cold War with the Invasion of Panama and the Gulf War. Given that the TTL "World's Policeman" will certainly not be a democracy, the results will be as fascinating as they are frightening!

I understand why Ryzhkov is starting to adopt Stalinesque techniques; he sees a golden opportunity for the USSR to be on top of the world. As more and more nations disintegrate and balkanize and a powerful United States becomes a memory, the remaining nations will frequently be forced to kneel before the Kremlin gates in a way that Lenin could have only dreamed of. It is like one of those OTL 1980s movies where the previously popular kid gains to much pride and becomes a total a**hole so all of his old friends all flock to the awkward, nerdy kid that they always ostracized previously! Therefore, the last thing that Ryzhkov wants is for a bunch of incompetents (from his point of view) to seize power, screw everything up and cheat the Soviets out of this golden opportunity.