Recolonization of Latin America
- Thread starter Super_Cool
- Start date
If you can find a way to make the U.S. more imperialist or less racist (ie more willing to incorporate Catholics and non-whites), I'd say it's not onlt possible but likely.
I was thinking more about European colonization.
I don't consider the US a "colonizer" in this sense, because after all, the main territory of the United States of America is in America.
Last edited:
AmIndHistoryAuthor
Banned
But it's not in Latin America. Just sharing part of the name of the region means little.
And many Cubans, Dominicans, and Puerto Ricans would disagree with you.
The most likely prospects involve a victorious Confederacy. A winning CSA might enable Napoleon III to defeat Juarez. An expansionist CSA might seek Cuba or the Dominican Rep for new slave territories.
Whether either would succeed for more than a decade or two is a different question.
And many Cubans, Dominicans, and Puerto Ricans would disagree with you.
The most likely prospects involve a victorious Confederacy. A winning CSA might enable Napoleon III to defeat Juarez. An expansionist CSA might seek Cuba or the Dominican Rep for new slave territories.
Whether either would succeed for more than a decade or two is a different question.
The US never really went for colonization in a big way; we preferred to take thinly populated areas, settle them, and make them into states. Latin America doesn't really fit the bill. And actually, if you want Latin America to fall prey to European colonization, it's the attitude of the British that counts, not the USA... it was the RN who really put the teeth into the Monroe Doctrine and prevented any further colonization of the Americas. So, to get to the POD here, you have to change British attitudes on the subject...
Cuāuhtemōc
Banned
It's pretty easy once you come down to it.
Cuba, Puerto Rico and Hispanola go under Spanish dominion
Cuba, Puerto Rico and Hispanola go under Spanish dominion
NothingNow
Banned
Yeah, with the RN preferring the Status Quo in territorial affairs while being the Guardian of the Seas and having a few major stations right there you really couldn't do anything with out the UK's say-so or a Serious Fleet.
Now besides France and Austria-Hungary, who really just wanted to be paid back and were hell-bent on Collecting it from Mexico, Did anyone even want to Recolonize the Americas?
Now If Britain were to become Involved as well, the title of "King (or Queen) of Spain" might be added to Queen Vicky's Style.
Now besides France and Austria-Hungary, who really just wanted to be paid back and were hell-bent on Collecting it from Mexico, Did anyone even want to Recolonize the Americas?
No. It's not, since they were already Spanish. at one point or another, with Haiti and Dominica becoming Independent first and then the Spanish American war of 1898, made Puerto Rico a Territory and Cuba an American Puppet more or less. To Do that you'd have to Mess with the US, starting a Major war which would Ruin Spain to an absurd degree. That's Just if the US was involved.
Now If Britain were to become Involved as well, the title of "King (or Queen) of Spain" might be added to Queen Vicky's Style.
Spain did recolonise the Dominican Republic from 1861 to 1865.
In the run-up to WW1, the Germans toyed with the idea of establishing colonies in South America. A decisive German win in WW1, could be enough maybe?
In the run-up to WW1, the Germans toyed with the idea of establishing colonies in South America. A decisive German win in WW1, could be enough maybe?
How decisive? If its after '17, they will have an American war machine to deal with. I think anytime after the 1870s is not likely unless you have British support, either obvious support or below the table with a "we will not interfere agreement." But what does England gain? I think nothing.
Yes they got all the benefits of a colony and none of the hassle of actually having to run the place - why on earth would they want to go and de jure colonize it?
I think the period where Germany was most interested in American colonies was about 1900-1913. The articles I've seen talked about wanting to eventually establish something like a British Dominion somewhere in South America, but of course full of Germans - and taking up to 50 years to build up a significant German population... but some Germans were in more of a rush.
So:
SCENARIO 1: Suppose, that US implodes (an anarchist or communist uprising?) in early 20th, the Germans manage to not piss off Britain (smaller navy?), and then finds some plausible justification (debts, citizens in danger, etc.) to bring some lump of S. America under their control. Is that feasible?
SCENARIO 2: US implodes (an anarchist or communist uprising?) in early 20th. Germany wins WW1 decisively, say smashing British fleet at Jutland. At the peace Germany gets some Caribbean bases, and is then ready to go on a colonizing drive in South America?
They are both feasible. The next question is why? They have German SW Africa, Cameroon (small I know) German SE Africa. Basically you already have large relatively thinly populated parts of Africa why not increase your hold and encourage emmigration there instead of waste Blood and Treasure on an imperial adventure.
Yes, Wilhelm II was nuts so anything is possible; but one your scenarios has England and Germany having a good relationship which implies two things, 1. Wilhelm got along with his English Cousins or 2. Wilhelm is not the Kasier in this period.
Obviously in scenario two it doesn't matter.
Yes, Wilhelm II was nuts so anything is possible; but one your scenarios has England and Germany having a good relationship which implies two things, 1. Wilhelm got along with his English Cousins or 2. Wilhelm is not the Kasier in this period.
Obviously in scenario two it doesn't matter.
You don't really get much out of Africa as a White colonial, nasty diseases, nasty natives and often poor soil to farm. Where as the likes of Argentina, Paraguay etc have large stretches of wonderful land with much potential for farming. Also the Germans might like the fact that there is already a large white population to assimilate over time.
You have same things in South America. Malaria is nasty, the locals are still going to fit you but in this case they will have better access to guns. As for farming. German SE Africa (Mozambique??) is in the fertile stretch as Zimbabwe and South Africa with plenty of good farm land, while Tanzania is drier it still has fertile stretches by the coast. While the two you cite, Paraguay and Argentina are pretty dry and quite mountainous. I know why Wilhelm would do it but why would another Kaiser (or anyone who listened to Bismarck). I just don't see the gain, especially in terms of prestige. Fine if you win a smashing a victory but more likely you will end up with a Boer type conflict that is hard on the soldiers, hard on the natives, and hard on the perception of your nation.
Even if we accept your arguments as true (I'm not sure I do), you're still assuming the Imperial Germans have a rational policy about gaining colonies.
The Germans definitely knew that the colonies they actually had were not much if any benefit, maybe even a net loss - but their line of thinking was definitely: we need more and bigger and better colonies.
Not: Let's improve what we've got. (And Neither: Let's cut our losses).
When you look at the reasons for Colonialism the whole idea is irrational. We invest lots of money, men and material in something that doesn't pay for itself even in the good years? Colonialism is an exercise in ego and thats all. THe only rational argument ever made for Colonialism was not to do it and that was by Bismarck. He actively encourage French Africa because he knew it would take their minds and their money off of the Germany he was consolidating.
I guess we agree to disagree. As for getting the Germans into Colonies in S. America than your stated Scenarios a few posts back are as good as any.
David S Poepoe
Banned
Both are infeasible and entirely unlikely. Anyone suggesting otherwise is delirious.
Besides we are not talking about the recolonization of Latin America, since no colonies or nations are being destroyed in the sense of, say, the Roanoke colony. The correct term would be reconquest, if done by Spain or even in a general sense any European power.
You're absolutely right considering African, Caribean and Asian colonies. But I think what the Germans wanted in South America is something like a British Dominion. Or more precisely: something like Canada. Pre-WWI around 100.000 Germans emigrated. These were "lost" for the "Fatherland". I think the German leadership thought that if they built a colony in southern Brasil, Uruguay or Argentina, places without diseases like their african colonies and with more fertile land ready for white settlers, these emigrants could go to their "Dominion". Within some years, this German-South-America would be a viable asset as Canada, buying German goods, providing raw materials, food, soldiers and industrial capacity.