Perot stays out of 1992 election.

Conservative commentator and author Ann Coulter has repeatedly said only reason Bill Clinton won the 1992 election was because of Ross Perot.

A more plausible result would be a closer election like 1976 but Clinton still wins....
 
Culturally if Clinton wins in a one-on-one face off then he wouldn't get the right wing hate of being elected on a technicality that there was a spoiler in the race. That wouldn't change the hate overall, but it would remove that argument that gave some cover for the sabotage the GOP used against Clinton during his administration:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Clinton_judicial_appointment_controversies

If you arguing totally out, as end no comments, speeches, never enters, etc... President Bush likely pulls out a close but uncomfortable win (51-49, enough EVs). I wouldn't be surprised if the Repubicans take a bigger in the house.

Remember, Bush was leading Clinton (ranging from slightly to safe but tight) until the Democrat convention and Perot's Withdrawal/ Endorsement of President Clinton and the Democrats, "they've righted the ship..." (and yes, later he wouldl make other claims as to why he quit...). And the debates will go very differently (boring?) without Perot pilingon Bush and the Stockdale Event!

Of course President Clinton, by getting California is going to have a strong chance in the EV college, so maybe, this an actual no questions, divided result (BTW, it's forgotten but there were a lot of pundits, Kinsely, Al Hunt for example, predicting Bush winning the popular (by from 1 to 3%) and Clinton winning the EV in the last days before the election, they all under estimated Perot's pull from Bush.)
 
Why ask the question if you already know the answer? :p

To see if others see different outcomes as shown above....

Can't see how checking your watch during a debate would really sink your chances of re-election but still worth noting.....

The economy was starting to recover in 1992 but didn't really start booming till December or early 1993.....edge Clinton.
 
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If you arguing totally out, as end no comments, speeches, never enters, etc... President Bush likely pulls out a close but uncomfortable win (51-49, enough EVs). I wouldn't be surprised if the Repubicans take a bigger in the house.[/I]


Yes, never enters...but I see Clinton with an edge. He did much better at the debates than Bush....

Reagan vs Carter 1980 but without big quotes like "There you go again" and "Are you better off than you were 4 years ago?"
 
A 2002 post of mine from soc.history.what-if (with an URL updated):

FWIW, exit polls found that Perot voters were split fairly equally between
Bush and Clinton as their second choice, with a large percentage saying
that they would not have voted at all if Perot were not in the race.
(Indeed, 1992 represented a temporary reversal in the long-term decline in
turnout for presidential elections, and Perot was probably a major reason
for that, attracting some voters, especially young ones, who had never voted
before.)

It has to be remembered that for no-Perot to have enabled Bush to win,
the exit polls had to have been not just wrong but drastically wrong.
Clinton defeated Bush by 43.3 to 36.7 percent of the vote.
http://psephos.adam-carr.net/countries/u/usa/pres/1992.txt To have Bush ahead in the
popular vote the Perot vote would have to go for him by almost 2-1. And if
a substantial number of Perot voters had abstained, Bush would have had to
get *more* than two-thirds of the remaining ones to win. (Yes, I know
that the electoral vote is what counts, but generally one cannot get an
electoral majority unless he at least comes very *close* in the popular
vote, as Harrison did in 1888 and GW Bush did in 2000. And GHW Bush would
have had to win well over 60 percent of the Perot vote to even come
close.) I see no reason to assume Perot voters would be that
overwhelmingly in favor of Bush, not only becuase of the exit polls but
because of the following facts:

(1) Although Perot did well in "conservative" states (e.g., in the
Rockies) he also did well in "liberal" ones like Massachusetts and Rhode
Island. OTOH, he did poorly in the most socially conservative region of
the country, the South; the only southern state where he exceeded 20
percent was his own state of Texas.

(2) Perot was largely running on dissatisfaction with the economy, and a
belief that the parties were neglecting it in favor of social issues.
People who believed this were not particularly likely to vote for Bush,
and people who were satisfied with the economy or who believed it was
imprtant to outlaw abortions were unlikely to vote for Perot (who was
pro-choice).

(3) In 1996, when Perot did much worse, much of his old support in New
England and the Northeast seems to have gone to Clinton; in the South and
the Rockies it went more to Bush. This is consistent with the finding
that the Perot vote was about evenly split in 1992.

(4) Again, if the Perot vote had been overwhelmingly Republican, one would
have expected the GOP to do much better in Congress than it did. Yes, the
Democrats did lose a few seats compared with 1990. My World Almanac indicates
a 267-167 Democratic edge in the House after 1990, compared to 258-176 after
1992. So that's a grand loss of nine seats, still leaving them exactly as
many seats as they had after the 1986 midterm election. And this loss, small
as it was, can easily be explained by reference to three facts: (1) The
House had been reapportioned after the 1990 census, and some of the
Democrats' strongest states in the Northeast had lost seats. (2) The House
bank scandal, though it hurt Congressmen of both parties, probably hurt the
Democrats more because there were more of them involved (simply because there
were more Democrats in the House, period). (3) The Democrats' House margin
had long been artifically inflated by the fact that many Southern districts
that hadn't voted for a Democratic presidential candidate in many years still
continued to re-elect their old conservative Democratic Congressmen who had
first been elected in another era. As these Southerners gradually retired,
the Democrats' margin was bound to erode.

In spite of these facts, the Democrats still won the Congressional vote
easily--which would not have been possible if the Perotistas were as
heavily Republican as some people imagine.

On the whole, I agree with the analyis of the 1992 elections in Michael
Barone's and Grant Ujifusa's *Almanac of American Politics 1994*:

"But when the Perot vote is allocated as exit polls suggested it should
be, split evenly between the two candidates (with perhaps a few more
votes for Bush in the South, the Mountain States and Ohio, but that gets
us quickly into the realm of spurious precision), the result is a 53%-47%
Clinton victory, almost precisely equal to the 52%-46% by which
Democratic House candidates beat Republican candidates in preliminary
figures." p. xxix

This seems to me about right--I think that had there been no Perot it
*might* have cost Clinton the electoral votes of Georgia, Colorado,
Montana (all of which Clinton carried narrowly in 1992, and lost in 1996
when Perot's vote declined) Nevada (which Clinton carried narrowly in both
elections) and maybe even Ohio (which Clinton carried narrowly in 1992 and
by less than his national margin in 1996). But if he lost all those
states he would still have gotten 321 electoral votes--well over the 270
necessary to win.
 
this is an old conservative shibboleth.

it stems from the fact the Republicans won 5 out of the previous 6 elections (1968, 72, 80, 84, and 88),.

Its part of the myths they tell themselves that the US is a conservative populace.
 
Culturally if Clinton wins in a one-on-one face off then he wouldn't get the right wing hate of being elected on a technicality that there was a spoiler in the race. That wouldn't change the hate overall

The politico-cultural dynamic I'm fascinated by is this: did Perot genuinely prompt the Republican factions to move towards a more centralised party movement, or did his presence only slightly inform that 'unity above all' narrative that took hold from '93 (Kristol memo, budget vote)? Was Poppy's tax heresy & subsequent election defeat all that's needed for conservative GOP orthodoxy to begin taking over, making everyone fall in line?

Having No Perot shouldn't butterfly away the Gingrich revolution, but it'd be sort of wild if No Perot results in McCain beating Bush for the nom in 2000.
 
this is an old conservative shibboleth.

it stems from the fact the Republicans won 5 out of the previous 6 elections (1968, 72, 80, 84, and 88),.

Its part of the myths they tell themselves that the US is a conservative populace.

To add on to what you said they love to credit Perot for Clinton's victory in 1992. But they never give credit to George Wallace for Nixon's victory in 1968, which was a much closer election than the 1992 election.
 

Deleted member 1487

The politico-cultural dynamic I'm fascinated by is this: did Perot genuinely prompt the Republican factions to move towards a more centralised party movement, or did his presence only slightly inform that 'unity above all' narrative that took hold from '93 (Kristol memo, budget vote)? Was Poppy's tax heresy & subsequent election defeat all that's needed for conservative GOP orthodoxy to begin taking over, making everyone fall in line?

Having No Perot shouldn't butterfly away the Gingrich revolution, but it'd be sort of wild if No Perot results in McCain beating Bush for the nom in 2000.

I'd almost be comfortable with that above a Gore presidency.
 
Wallace wasn't a liberal, like Humphrey. HENRY Wallace could be credited with Truman's win, as Wallace was more vilified, thus shifting away criticism of Truman.

Some have suggested that Perot was the inspiration for the Contract With America. Without him, Republicans might not retake the House and Senate.

Also, one Republican can claim credit for Clinton's win- Lawrence Walsh, who indicted several Iran-Contra figures not long before the election. (Of course, Clinton did nothing for him, and Lanny Davis, a Clinton crony, even wrote a book attacking Walsh as well as Ken Starr.)
 
Wallace wasn't a liberal, like Humphrey. HENRY Wallace could be credited with Truman's win, as Wallace was more vilified, thus shifting away criticism of Truman.

Some have suggested that Perot was the inspiration for the Contract With America. Without him, Republicans might not retake the House and Senate.


Not every Democrat is a liberal, especially in 1968. George Wallace took a lot of white blue collar, working class voters from Humphrey in the Midwest. Voters who had voted for Kennedy and Johnson and even FDR. The south was also not as red then as they are now. Those voters voted for Wallace for a reason. They still considered themselves Democrats and liked the New Deal and Great Society programs. But did not like the Democratic party's continued support and enforcement of civil rights laws. Racial tension was high all over the country at that time and Wallace appealed to that element of the electorate that thought they were "losing their country". Wallace gave them that option of still supporting the Democratic populist programs that Nixon opposed, but oppose the civil rights laws that Humphrey supported.''

Also, one Republican can claim credit for Clinton's win- Lawrence Walsh, who indicted several Iran-Contra figures not long before the election. (Of course, Clinton did nothing for him, and Lanny Davis, a Clinton crony, even wrote a book attacking Walsh as well as Ken Starr.)

That is a big stretch. The polls before and after the 92 election said that most voters voted based on economic reasons. I doubt most voters had Iran-Contra on their minds when they went to the polls in 1992.
 
(1) Although Perot did well in "conservative" states (e.g., in the
Rockies) he also did well in "liberal" ones like Massachusetts and Rhode
Island.

Perot's best showing was in Maine, where he finished second with 30.4 percent of the vote. Maine has an independent streak: one of its U.S. Senators, Angus King, ran as an (I) and it has elected at least two (I) governors in the last few decades. His second-best showing (28.4 percent) was in Alaska, which also has an (I) Senator.
 
Best guess....
genusmap.php

Clinton 302 ev
Bush 236 ev
 
Perot's best showing was in Maine, where he finished second with 30.4 percent of the vote. Maine has an independent streak: one of its U.S. Senators, Angus King, ran as an (I) and it has elected at least two (I) governors in the last few decades. His second-best showing (28.4 percent) was in Alaska, which also has an (I) Senator.

Murkowski ran as a write in, but she is still a member of the Republican party. You do make a good point about Alaskans being more independently minded than most other states. Alaska elected a "member" of the Alaskan Independence Party for governor in the late 80's or early 90's. This could also be symptomatic of a Republican Party that is out of line with independents.
 
Conservative commentator and author Ann Coulter has repeatedly said only reason Bill Clinton won the 1992 election was because of Ross Perot.

A more plausible result would be a closer election like 1976 but Clinton still wins....

Yeah, probably. People were TIRED of the Republicans at that point. Bush, Sr., was alright, but the likelihood of him winning a second term was pretty low. In fact, even a darkhorse Democrat probably could have won! Clinton was just one of the best choices, IMO.
 
Yeah, probably. People were TIRED of the Republicans at that point. Bush, Sr., was alright, but the likelihood of him winning a second term was pretty low. In fact, even a darkhorse Democrat probably could have won! Clinton was just one of the best choices, IMO.

In 1992? Clinton WAS the darkhorse candidate.
 
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