You know, here's something that might pique some interest especially as this is something different for once:

The State Defense Forces until rather recently were more often than not ignored and neglected though admittedly they are still not at the strength that they could potentially be as after 9/11 some units were revitalized and became critical in local/state emergency response.

They are not like the National Guard (although they can be in conjunction and train alongside the National Guard), rather these units are as it says on the tin, organized and maintained by the states for the defense of the individual states though constitutionally they can be equipped by the Federal Government but the units are not liable to serve outside the United States (individual members, however, are not exempt from Selective Service and if the draft ever becomes necessary once again then just like anyone else who is eligible the individual State Guardsman can be drafted).

For instance, a certain famed backwoodsman named Alvin York was a commander in the Tennessee State Guard during World War Two and the Tennessee State Guard was reportedly activated during the Battle of Athens in 1946. Maryland as well as the then territory of Alaska also called out such formations upon U.S. entry into WWII.

Here is some source material to provide some context and all credits are due to the State Guard Association, Wikipedia / Wikia, the Indiana State Government, and, well, all rights are reserved to the respective owners and while some of this may be in the public domain, it is better to be safe than sorry and is in good faith.







And to use an example of regulations/ the organization of a SDF including an authorized but not currently active component (a Marine Corps Battalion in case anyone is wondering):



Anyway recently I was thinking about why they weren't used as a basis for Civil Defense in regards to Fallout Shelters and whatnot instead of creating Civil Defense from scratch on the Federal level and also figure out the feasibility of upholding the organizations instead of neglecting them.

As a matter of fact, back in 1956 OTL, Congress authorized "state defense forces" permanently under Title 32, Section 109, of the United States Code, not to mention that both President Reagan and the Department of Defense in the 1980s actively encouraged the states to maintain the SDF units as well.

Given that I'm an bit inexperienced compared to the old timers who are familiar with the historical circumstances of the 1950s and 60s, I especially welcome the opinions of those who may know why it was decided to form Civil Defense from scratch or the feasibility of using them for Civil Defense purposes due to being available such as @Emperor Norton I and @RogueBeaver

Furthermore, maintaining such units at least more than on paper theoretically could alleviate the National Guard and free them up due to not having to be much concerned with Strategic Defense role much as, for instance, the Nike batteries of OTL could be manned by servicemen of the State Guard instead.


Of course at the same time the National Guard due to the above could be folded into the Army and Air Force Reserves due to the overlap but I'll digress.

Finally, this is again speculation on my part of course but assuming that the SDFs are maintained to an level sufficient to supplement the National Guard, it isn't unlikely they could provide an pool for optional continued training after Volunteers/Draftees finished their commitment whenever it was in the Regular Military or any reserve components of the respective branches including the National Guard as the National Guard are technically reservists, not a militia and Uncle Sam could encourage servicemen who are not interested in being lifers to contribute to the SDFs as an alternative to reenlisting for another two to eight years duration overseas.

Ultimately the question isn't just a matter of if the organizations can be properly maintained but the feasibility as well, especially as until the Korean War and flexible response, most military thinkers were assuming that conventional warfare was in the past and any future conflicts was inevitably nuclear i.e. the New Look Policy.

Now how feasible is this?
 
Why not just make the NG larger? Whats the advantage of a larger set of extra separate forces that can't be mobilized by the federal government that presumably has to pay if SDF want to be significant (apart from local emergency disaster relief etc)?
 

marathag

Banned
Why not just make the NG larger? Whats the advantage of a larger set of extra separate forces that can't be mobilized by the federal government that presumably has to pay if SDF want to be significant (apart from local emergency disaster relief etc)?
That the State Guard can't be Federalized is the draw, with the Governor having the call on what they do, while getting a bid of Federal $$ to fund them
 
Why not just make the NG larger? Whats the advantage of a larger set of extra separate forces that can't be mobilized by the federal government that presumably has to pay if SDF want to be significant (apart from local emergency disaster relief etc)?
The SDF can use lower quality troops ( For instance these days they are mostly manned by veterans including those too old for the Guard) who can still provide service without eating into the NG. They can also be manned by those too busy for NG commitments in peacetime. And in the early b Cold War in the event of a prolonged conventional war they could draw upon manpower resources unavailable to the regular military ( say workers at defense plants).
 
That the State Guard can't be Federalized is the draw, with the Governor having the call on what they do, while getting a bid of Federal $$ to fund them
But that makes no sense from the part of the federal government. They are paying for something they can’t control while providing an military for the exclusive use of state governments. And what use would a state government have for a military which is basically indistinguishable from the NG other than it is 100% obedient to them and NOT to DC?
What you are describing is basically the NG but much less useful for National emergencies and only more useful for the very specific circumstance of disobeying the federal government (aka, insurrection). Not surprising they faded away.
 
But that makes no sense from the part of the federal government. They are paying for something they can’t control while providing an military for the exclusive use of state governments. And what use would a state government have for a military which is basically indistinguishable from the NG other than it is 100% obedient to them and NOT to DC?
What you are describing is basically the NG but much less useful for National emergencies and only more useful for the very specific circumstance of disobeying the federal government (aka, insurrection). Not surprising they faded away.

Another plus other than localization and arguably could be beneficial is decentralization, especially in regards to nuclear war.

If you think about it, if for some reason the National Guard or Reserve or Regular Army or whatever local garrison that got called up, there still is a cadre available to man the defenses, freeing up forces that otherwise would be unavailable for a conventional total war. And, again using decentralization as reasoning, the SDFs would not have to wait for Washington especially if Washington got annihilated. While the Federal Government and Department of Defense figures out whose in command due to chain of command reasons and retaliate, the local SDF could be manning the Nike missile sites.

As @Father Maryland pointed out,the State Guard doesn't have an restriction on age while all federal branches including the National Guard ( has an mandatory retirement age of 65, that's not mentioning the fact that those who were exempt from the draft not on medical grounds but based on being part of war essential industries including but not limiting to agriculture and armaments foundries can be part of the State Defense Forces as during the two World Wars of OTL the National Guard presence except for those training for either the ETO or PTO was more often than not zilch.

Also, the National Guard as we know it today was pretty much like the SDFs until the Dick Act and the Defense Act of 1916 yet while not obligated to serve overseas they did volunteer en masse for the Spanish-American War.

Besides, the only significant insurrection with SDFs opposing the Federal Government was the American Civil War and even then I would like to point at the Indiana Legion during the same conflict was a Pro-Union state defense organization while the State Guard / Pre-1903 National Guard formations were mostly tasked with putting down insurrections.

If the National Guard or other units are away and cannot be there for any reason, then what is available? It respectfully should be the State Guard holding the line until reinforcements arrive and that's reason why a few current SDFs are officially christened as Guard Reserve but unfortunately they are understrength and even the Federal Government recently has recognized their value:


I understand if you respectfully disagree as ever since the Democratic-Republicans and Federalists argued over the size and power of the government there are still those who proclaim the federal government too big and others too small but I don't want this to metamorphose into a current politics debate, rather I just sincerely was inquiring if there was any way to not neglect the State Defense Forces as a resource in the common defense of the United States since as aforementioned the decentralization and localization could arguably be an advantageous asset with Uncle Sam being able to free up resources that otherwise wouldn't be possible without the State Guard as the Federal government wouldn't have to be much concerned with defending U.S. soil in the event of an hypothetical full-scale conventional war that necessitates an overwhelming majority of U.S. servicemen to be overseas or in the event most of the Federal Military getting wiped out, there would still be something available.

Now admittedly this might be borderline ASB but Dewey in his 1948 platform wanted to build up the conventional forces and what if he ran instead of Eisenhower in '52? Again, even I admit it is unlikely POD for a possible upkeep but it very well could have been one of them.
 
I can see this going quite poorly in, say, the Civil Rights era.
I can see the idea of an armed force the feds can’t federalize being extremely popular for Jim Crow southern states.
Which is admittedly one of the downsides if not one of the major drawbacks in regards to this hence why I'm doing a plausibility check here as otherwise theoretically speaking the pool to free up other resources could be useful.
 
I can see the idea of an armed force the feds can’t federalize being extremely popular for Jim Crow southern states.
On the other hand if the states act too avertly in such a manner they're likely to get smacked down hard. And a bunch of Alabama State Defense force troops who enlisted for that reason probably aren't going to even try and stand against say the 101st.
 
Which is admittedly one of the downsides if not one of the major drawbacks in regards to this hence why I'm doing a plausibility check here as otherwise theoretically speaking the pool to free up other resources could be useful.
Certainly.

I can definitely understand why some, if not most, Governors would like this, but I don't see the federal government going for it. If the federal government is gonna fund anything, it would be expanding the National Guard - but then again, why?

Additionally, while States cannot create their own militaries unilaterally, they can certainly create disaster relief units out of their own funding, expand State law enforcement, etc. Basically, expand the State -EMAs, enlarge State Police, perhaps create additional State tactical law enforcement units, things like that.
 
On the other hand if the states act too avertly in such a manner they're likely to get smacked down hard. And a bunch of Alabama State Defense force troops who enlisted for that reason probably aren't going to even try and stand against say the 101st.
They might, if they view it as a Lexington and Concorde situation. Or, can you imagine States deploying these forces for "election security?" Let's not tread further on that, I'm just saying that's a possible if not likely outcome.
 
If the federal government is gonna fund anything, it would be expanding the National Guard - but then again, why?
To provide some additional flexibility among the other reasons aforementioned?

while States cannot create their own militaries unilaterally
With all due respect actually the State Governments can and the Federal Government, not to mention the Constitution acknowledges it.

 
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Actually they can and the Federal Government, not to mention the Constitution authorizes it.

Interesting. Well, such a force couldn't actually be used outside State borders and would still be subject to the provision that prevents States from conducting foreign policy.

Additionally, I wonder if former soldiers part of the Inactive Reserve would be eligible? I'd think not, since they then couldn't be recalled. This would create a lack of experienced members.

But fair enough! Thanks for the correction!
 
Interesting. Well, such a force couldn't actually be used outside State borders and would still be subject to the provision that prevents States from conducting foreign policy.

Additionally, I wonder if former soldiers part of the Inactive Reserve would be eligible? I'd think not, since they then couldn't be recalled. This would create a lack of experienced members.

But fair enough! Thanks for the correction!
I'm no lawyer but I believe the SDFs can as matter of fact be use outside state borders but not overseas / anywhere other than the 50 States and in fact IIRC the Indiana State Code for instance does have a mention of it, I'll have to retrieve it for a direct quote but here's the link:


It should be a non-issue in regards to those being in the process of getting discharged as currently the overwhelming majority of SDF personnel are formerly military personnel.

No problem @David Floyd , it wasn't until rather recently that I was even aware of the existence of the SDFs and it sure has been interesting reading :)
 
Hmm. I'd think that crossing State lines could become a federal issue. Certainly, enough legal issues could be raised to make this problematic.

But regardless, the murkiness of these issues is why I just don't see the federal government funding it. If a State wanted it badly enough, sure, raise an additional National Guard Brigade, but SDFs would surely have to be self funded by the State.
 
They might, if they view it as a Lexington and Concorde situation. Or, can you imagine States deploying these forces for "election security?" Let's not tread further on that, I'm just saying that's a possible if not likely outcome.
I mean the Feds nationalized Southern States NG forces multiple times for enforcing highly public court ruling. Those NG men might not have been too enthusiastic but they didn't respond by mass desertion let alone out and out mass mutiny.
 
Hmm. I'd think that crossing State lines could become a federal issue. Certainly, enough legal issues could be raised to make this problematic.

But regardless, the murkiness of these issues is why I just don't see the federal government funding it. If a State wanted it badly enough, sure, raise an additional National Guard Brigade, but SDFs would surely have to be self funded by the State.
It probably would be dependent on the circumstances as a multistate training excercise in conjunction with the National Guard shouldn't be much of an issue.

Fair and it does ultimately boil down to funding afterall.
 
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I mean the Feds nationalized Southern States NG forces multiple times for enforcing highly public court ruling. Those NG men might not have been too enthusiastic but they didn't respond by mass desertion let alone out and out mass mutiny.
Yes, but State Guard Forces cannot be federalized.

A National Guardsman who refused a federalization order could and would be arrested and prosecuted.

There's no way - none - that the federal government is funding a military force that it can't ultimately control.
 
It probably would be depending on the circumstances such as a multistate training excercise in conjunction with the National Guard.

Fair and it does ultimately boil down to funding afterall.
Oh certainly. Joint training exercises would be fully sanctioned and no problem.

But let's imagine that, in 1957, the Governor of Alabama decided to "reinforce" Arkansas with his State Guard (assuming he had one) to resist integration? You have to assume the federal government would take issue with that.
 
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