Pacific Ordeal

Beedok

Beedok

dakkafex said:
Cool stuff. No Mac near the top will certainly shake up early Cold War policy relative to OTL, if there's going to be anything resembling a Cold War that we would recognize in this timeline.

One nitpick, though; you stated that

Did you mean Dwight?
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That's actually the initial POD.;)
 
MrP

MrP

Banned
Eisenhower in the Pacific theater is quite an interesting development. He's almost the exact opposite of MacArthur: level-headed, good at managing other people's egos, meticulous to detail, mindful of logistical issues.

CalBear said:
What might have happened with this “draft Mac” movement will always remain one of the great unanswered questions of the war.
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Draft Marshall! I don't think I've ever read a TL in which he becomes POTUS, whereas President Patton and President MacArthur TLs are a dime a dozen.
 

Simon Darkshade

The notion that Labour's social policies required some form of nebulous colonial income to pay for them doesn't really ring true with what I've read on the subject. Malaya was virtually the only profitable colony, but Labour's policies on an NHS and social insurance were never contingent on Malayan income. Even when Britain was in parlous postwar financial condition, it pushed through with Labour's reforms and spent substantial amounts on defence.

Attlee and Labour were many things, but not complete financial ingenues.
 

eltf177

Excellent update. I agree that if the UK wants to keep their colonies after the war they're going to have to fight for them. And even then...

Does no Dug-Out Doug mean no/less chance for Chinese intervention in the Korean War?:rolleyes:
 
MrP

MrP

Banned
CalBear said:
The major social programs that Labour hoped to implement required the revenue streams that the colonies provided for financing.
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I agree with Simon that this seems questionable. The Labour Party's social programme didn't rely on funds from the colonies, all of which aside from Malaya were net drains in any case. The second Colonial Development and Welfare Act passed in March 1945, for example, earmarked £120 million to the colonies.
 
Dan

Dan

mattep74 said:
Do you have to kill Macarthur in every TL you write;) ?
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Yes, I think it's an old law or charter or somesuch - Any timeline involving MacArthur must involve him either dying, or suffering a fate worse than death - anonymity. :D
 
Athelstane

Athelstane

Zheng He said:
I can also roll with the decision to restrict the BPF to SE Asia rather than "in at the death," though once Nimitz finally reaches Okinawa and the Home Islands, it may be more difficult to resist the pressure from the British Chiefs to join 3rd Fleet.

OTL Churchill wanted to concentrate British efforts in SE Asia and the Indian Ocean so they could be the big fish in their private pond.
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Right. The British Chiefs fought him on that and, in the end, won out.
 

CalBear

Moderator
Donor
Monthly Donor
MrP said:
I agree with Simon that this seems questionable. The Labour Party's social programme didn't rely on funds from the colonies, all of which aside from Malaya were net drains in any case. The second Colonial Development and Welfare Act passed in March 1945, for example, earmarked £120 million to the colonies.
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On my iPad at the moment so I'll be brief. With this change British forces will be in combat against the Japanese only in the CBI. Defending the Raj, offensive in Burma and eventually Malaya/Singapore. There is a chance they may wind up engaging in either the DEI or French Indochina, but either of those are critical to the security of the Malay Peninsula
 

CuirassPolisher

Poor MacArthur. It would have been interesting to see him run against FDR like McClellan against Lincoln, but he deserved what he got for allowing his ego to override his judgment.

I notice you mentioned revising this update several times before posting it. Did you struggle to decide on a fitting death for old Doug?
 

DaveB

CalBear said:
On my iPad at the moment so I'll be brief. With this change British forces will be in combat against the Japanese only in the CBI. Defending the Raj, offensive in Burma and eventually Malaya/Singapore. There is a chance they may wind up engaging in either the DEI or French Indochina, but either of those are critical to the security of the Malay Peninsula
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I would have thought that clearing Sumatra (at least of air and naval bases - doesn't matter if there are a few IJA ground units left?) is necessary for secure access to Singapore?
 

Admiral Halsey

Banned
I have a challenge for CalBear. One day make a TL where Mac doesn't die and stays a major player in the Pacific theater. Also the Alaska class must be featured in it positively.
 

ExScientiaTridens

3rd Fleet

IMHO the reassignment of Halsey is not a reason to combine the fleet under a single command. The 3rd Fleet/5th Fleet arrangement can be maintained. At first blush, it would not be ridiculous to move VADM Marc Mitscher up to command of 3rd Fleet and move VADM John McCain, Sr up to command of the fast carrier task forces.

Just one option.
 

Admiral Halsey

Banned
CalBear said:
I'm positive that I sank the Alaska in AANW.

Does that count? :D
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Having read the TL probably 100 times by now I hones't don't ever remember that happening.(unless it was added to the book which I still have to buy) Anyways let me reword it. The Alaska Class must be featured in the TL in a positive light, they must still be built AND they must have some positive impact on the war.
 
JudgeKing

JudgeKing

Admiral Halsey said:
Having read the TL probably 100 times by now I hones't don't ever remember that happening.(unless it was added to the book which I still have to buy) Anyways let me reword it. The Alaska Class must be featured in the TL in a positive light, they must still be built AND they must have some positive impact on the war.
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Would using the CA-2D design be acceptable provided it uses the names of the OTL Alaska-class?
 
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