Done in real life - c.f. Samuel Hood's fortification of Diamond Rock in 1804
Malaya What If
- Thread starter Fatboy Coxy
- Start date
Ramp-Rat
Monthly Donor
A few thoughts about the Singapore Naval Base, and Blackouts in general.
HMNB Singapore was designed to be the fleet base of a large British fleet, which was aimed at deterring the Japanese. ITTL the fleet it was designed for is very busy elsewhere, and it is now acting as a repair maintenance and refit yard, for the Mediterranean fleet, and such units are available locally. It has as our author has pointed out in his latest post a major problem, without the large industrial base that yards in the UK or US have, the overwhelming majority of sophisticated parts it needs, have to be imported. So while the yard can carry out most structural repairs and modifications, it can even fabricate a new gear wheel for a diesel engine. Fabricating a new gear set for a cruiser or a drive shaft for its engine, is way beyond its capabilities. Swap out the main guns on a battleship yes with difficulty, build or reline such a large weapon, no chance. So for now the Base is working to enhanced peacetime standards, there is lots of lovely overtime, but the Base will be effectively shut down on Saturday afternoon and Sunday. Things will change once the Japanese start their invasion of Malaya, but not as much as might be expected.
Blackouts, what is a blackout in the context of this tail, and why do we have them, and just how will any blackout be applied in this Time Line. And by blackout I am only referring to the imposition of light controls, and not media or any other kinds of blackout. Prior to the end of the nineteenth century other than at sea and along the coast, armies and nations didn’t except for deception purposes, impose any form of light discipline on their forces or populations. The armies of Wellington and Napoleon camped opposite each other and while the troops huddled around camp fires within sight of each other, their officers gathered around tables which by the standards of the day were brightly lit tables, in buildings with open windows and doors. It was much the same in the American Civil War, and in all conflicts, up until the development of long range firearms and artillery, when the front line and its immediate surroundings became very dark. However towns and cities away from the front remained lit up like Christmas trees, thus in Britain at the start of WWI, while strict restrictions were imposed on the display of lights around the coast from the start. The major inland cities and towns such as London, Manchester, Birmingham, Leeds, Sheffield, etc, continued to be illuminated in public and private, just as they had been prior to the outbreak of war.
It was only when the Germans started to conduct an aerial bombing campaign against the rear areas of the front and the British homeland, that strict light discipline and a universal blackout started to be imposed. By the time of WWII governments in the developed nations around the world, except America had extensive plans and regulations in place for the imposition of some form of blackout, hence Australia, South Africa and Canada, saw the need for strict regulations in their respective coastal zones, had no need given their geographical situation and virtual immunity to aerial bombing, any need for a blackout inland. Britain however, given its WWI experience and its proximity to Europe, imposed a total blackout from the start of the war. It took time for the authorities to realise that the blackout was far too draconian and up until the start of the German nighttime bombing offensive, caused far more casualties and greater loss of life than was acceptable. And would slowly from mid 1941, begin to relax and modify the regulations, replacing the total blackout with a more relaxed grey-out, so that in cities, towns that had central control over street lighting. Half the bulbs were replaced with low voltage blue bulbs, that could be turned off at the flick of a switch, and in outdoor works similar low powered centrally controlled blue lights were used. Note post war and all during the Cold War era, other than in coastal areas, the increasing accuracy of navigation systems meant that other in the front line and associated areas, a blackout severed no useful purpose. And all such plans and regulations were removed from the war plans, as any blackout would be more trouble than it was worth.
So let us look at Malaya and Singapore at this point in time in this TL, and what blackout plans and regulations should be in place. The Army will have its own set of rules and procedures in place regarding light discipline in the front line and forward zone. As will the Navy especially in regards to navigation aids around the coast, and ships at sea. In the same way the RAF, will have a plan for the various navigation beacons and airfield lighting systems. The civil authorities have regulations and plans that have been trialed and practiced for every major city/town, especially Singapore which has been subjected to numerous air raid drills. However Singapore given its location doesn’t need a permanent general blackout, as it is a least 600 miles away from any Japanese airfield. And thanks to its radar network will receive at minimum of an hour’s warning of any air raid, it can operate under a different system. Provided that all public illumination can be switched off at the flic of a switch, along with such commercial illuminated signs, windows etc are present. Then the city and island can essentially operate as it would in peace time. Once the air raid sirens sound the alert, it should be well known by now that the power to the cities street lighting is going to be switched off in fifteen minutes. And that the citizens should implement a basic blackout, that prevents lights being shown outside. So the local hospital which has open windows for to allow the air to circulate, will need to draw blackout curtains across its windows, as will the remainder of the citizens.The local Civil Defence and Police will be patrolling the streets to ensure that as far as possible that nothing other than essential emergency lights are visible. If the Japanese attack takes place at the same time that it did IOTL, then having received a warning from the earlier attack on Hong Kong, the authorities will be fully alert and expecting an immediate attack themselves. As for the Naval Base, it’s very early on a Monday morning, and given that it’s highly unlikely that any work is taking place, the Base will have very limited illumination on, and that can be easily switched off, so that only low light emergency lights are left on. Once the conflict against the Japanese has started and the Base switches to 24/7 working, it can still make use of strong illumination, as the ability to switch it off rapidly, means that by the time that any air attack is overhead, the Base will be completely dark.
RR.
HMNB Singapore was designed to be the fleet base of a large British fleet, which was aimed at deterring the Japanese. ITTL the fleet it was designed for is very busy elsewhere, and it is now acting as a repair maintenance and refit yard, for the Mediterranean fleet, and such units are available locally. It has as our author has pointed out in his latest post a major problem, without the large industrial base that yards in the UK or US have, the overwhelming majority of sophisticated parts it needs, have to be imported. So while the yard can carry out most structural repairs and modifications, it can even fabricate a new gear wheel for a diesel engine. Fabricating a new gear set for a cruiser or a drive shaft for its engine, is way beyond its capabilities. Swap out the main guns on a battleship yes with difficulty, build or reline such a large weapon, no chance. So for now the Base is working to enhanced peacetime standards, there is lots of lovely overtime, but the Base will be effectively shut down on Saturday afternoon and Sunday. Things will change once the Japanese start their invasion of Malaya, but not as much as might be expected.
Blackouts, what is a blackout in the context of this tail, and why do we have them, and just how will any blackout be applied in this Time Line. And by blackout I am only referring to the imposition of light controls, and not media or any other kinds of blackout. Prior to the end of the nineteenth century other than at sea and along the coast, armies and nations didn’t except for deception purposes, impose any form of light discipline on their forces or populations. The armies of Wellington and Napoleon camped opposite each other and while the troops huddled around camp fires within sight of each other, their officers gathered around tables which by the standards of the day were brightly lit tables, in buildings with open windows and doors. It was much the same in the American Civil War, and in all conflicts, up until the development of long range firearms and artillery, when the front line and its immediate surroundings became very dark. However towns and cities away from the front remained lit up like Christmas trees, thus in Britain at the start of WWI, while strict restrictions were imposed on the display of lights around the coast from the start. The major inland cities and towns such as London, Manchester, Birmingham, Leeds, Sheffield, etc, continued to be illuminated in public and private, just as they had been prior to the outbreak of war.
It was only when the Germans started to conduct an aerial bombing campaign against the rear areas of the front and the British homeland, that strict light discipline and a universal blackout started to be imposed. By the time of WWII governments in the developed nations around the world, except America had extensive plans and regulations in place for the imposition of some form of blackout, hence Australia, South Africa and Canada, saw the need for strict regulations in their respective coastal zones, had no need given their geographical situation and virtual immunity to aerial bombing, any need for a blackout inland. Britain however, given its WWI experience and its proximity to Europe, imposed a total blackout from the start of the war. It took time for the authorities to realise that the blackout was far too draconian and up until the start of the German nighttime bombing offensive, caused far more casualties and greater loss of life than was acceptable. And would slowly from mid 1941, begin to relax and modify the regulations, replacing the total blackout with a more relaxed grey-out, so that in cities, towns that had central control over street lighting. Half the bulbs were replaced with low voltage blue bulbs, that could be turned off at the flick of a switch, and in outdoor works similar low powered centrally controlled blue lights were used. Note post war and all during the Cold War era, other than in coastal areas, the increasing accuracy of navigation systems meant that other in the front line and associated areas, a blackout severed no useful purpose. And all such plans and regulations were removed from the war plans, as any blackout would be more trouble than it was worth.
So let us look at Malaya and Singapore at this point in time in this TL, and what blackout plans and regulations should be in place. The Army will have its own set of rules and procedures in place regarding light discipline in the front line and forward zone. As will the Navy especially in regards to navigation aids around the coast, and ships at sea. In the same way the RAF, will have a plan for the various navigation beacons and airfield lighting systems. The civil authorities have regulations and plans that have been trialed and practiced for every major city/town, especially Singapore which has been subjected to numerous air raid drills. However Singapore given its location doesn’t need a permanent general blackout, as it is a least 600 miles away from any Japanese airfield. And thanks to its radar network will receive at minimum of an hour’s warning of any air raid, it can operate under a different system. Provided that all public illumination can be switched off at the flic of a switch, along with such commercial illuminated signs, windows etc are present. Then the city and island can essentially operate as it would in peace time. Once the air raid sirens sound the alert, it should be well known by now that the power to the cities street lighting is going to be switched off in fifteen minutes. And that the citizens should implement a basic blackout, that prevents lights being shown outside. So the local hospital which has open windows for to allow the air to circulate, will need to draw blackout curtains across its windows, as will the remainder of the citizens.The local Civil Defence and Police will be patrolling the streets to ensure that as far as possible that nothing other than essential emergency lights are visible. If the Japanese attack takes place at the same time that it did IOTL, then having received a warning from the earlier attack on Hong Kong, the authorities will be fully alert and expecting an immediate attack themselves. As for the Naval Base, it’s very early on a Monday morning, and given that it’s highly unlikely that any work is taking place, the Base will have very limited illumination on, and that can be easily switched off, so that only low light emergency lights are left on. Once the conflict against the Japanese has started and the Base switches to 24/7 working, it can still make use of strong illumination, as the ability to switch it off rapidly, means that by the time that any air attack is overhead, the Base will be completely dark.
RR.
The problem with Singapore and blackouts is the fact it is an island surrounded by water and at night even with no moon it looks different than land. The more moon you have and less cloud makes it easy to tell the difference between land and water, however as Bomber Command back in Europe has shown us, even then you might miss your target by navigational or bombardier errors. At least here they Japanese don't have to worry about bombing the wrong country.
Given the masive size of the dry- and floating docks, I imagine that the workshops and machine shops should be more than able to machine complicated parts.
Many shipyards of this eara, even the smaller ones, had a remarcable diversification of items it could machine, forge or cast, There for even in a remote area as Singapore and with such large docking capacity this shipyard should be able manufacturing parts. This manufacturing capabilities should be available on the base just because of its remotenes from industrial centers. The production levels would small, but my thought is that it is present on the base.
If not then the masive drydocks were quite a waste of monney and poor strategic thinking and just sand blast and paint shops.
And if the manufacturing capabilities is not available on the base then Malaya must have some industry to supply the railroads, trains, railcars, trams, plantation machinery and machinery to make rawmaterial into exported half fabricates, whihc can make ship parts as well.. Even the NEI had an industrial base to supply the local railroads and plantationmachinery and even the much smaller drydocks. In British India this kind of industry for local demand must even be larger, may be with a capacity even close to the British homeland, only the focus was not on military and naval items.
I am sure HMNB Singapore can do this with not more problems than a HMNB in the UK, since this was the whole purpose of the base. Re-machining of the inner or outer barrels might be a bit too complicated, for the very large guns, but certainly not for the smaller guns or light gus. And on the other hand if provided with the forgings even the large guns might be possible to revise.
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Ramp-Rat
Monthly Donor
While Singapore is an island and surrounded by water, at night unless the skies are completely clear, the island could become hidden in the shadows. As for bombing the wrong country, I know of no occasion that the British or Germans managed to bomb ether Sweden or Spain, and while both did in a very minor way bomb Switzerland. The real experts in bombing Switzerland and in daylight, were the USAAF, who seemed to be the world leaders in bombing the wrong targets. I personally think that there is a lot of truth in the reported saying of a captured German soldier. ‘ when the RAF fly over the Germans duck, when the Luftwaffe fly over the Allies duck, when the Americans fly over everybody ducks.’
And yes I fully understand that the Luftwaffe and RAF had completely different bombing tactics to those of the USAAF. Whereas the British and Germans were mostly flying individually at night, and one or two aircraft might totally screw up their navigation. The USAAF, flying in tight formations in daylight, and all dropping their bombs when the lead aircraft did, were bound to make far bigger mistakes, that had greater consequences on the ground.
RR.
Were the Swiss, American Allies? Were the Germans, American Allies?
Catch 22 Bombing the airfield
image: Airmen running across an airfield, with planes burning on either side of them. Above them an aircraft is flying lowover the airfield, completing a bombing run. Puffs of smoke from gunfire hang in the air.
I think that it was a deal for Egyptian cotton...
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Fatboy Coxy
Monthly Donor
Hi Admiral Jellicoe, yes that's it, well done. O'Brien based his story on this action, and I think gave reference to it in the notes. A fantastic feat of engineering in its time.Done in real life - c.f. Samuel Hood's fortification of Diamond Rock in 1804
Battle of Diamond Rock - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
The gear set, no. Cutting gears takes specialist equipment. Though they could possibly repair a gear set if damage in not too extensive. But the drive shaft was very much in the shipyards wheelhouse.
Removing the main guns from a ship is a major operation, that requires cutting apart the turret plating, stripping it down to the cradle and craning them out. This requires a crane heavy enough to do that, which was a major asset even for a builder. It was unlikely, therefore, that the average shipyard could do it for a Battleship. Even a cruiser might be a stretch. A destroyer might just be possible though.
Building a gun is also out of the question. This was very much a specialized process and there were only a few firms with the equipment required to do this. For heavy mountings it was basically just Armstrong Vickers, with the old Coventry and Beardmore works being reactivated under government ownership. For guns 6” or smaller there were a couple more but still few.
Reclining was a marginally more straightforward process as most British guns were designed to be relined. However, since this often requires the removal of the gun, it was still generally an operation for the manufacturer IIUC . Thought it might have been a dockyard job for lighter guns. I am not sure on this.
For light guns, it is actually possible that spares were available. The practice was somewhat undercut by the later use of turrets for most guns but in earlier years the Navy had ordered guns light enough to be mounted in swivel mounts or casemates (6” and smaller) as bulk items and simply added them to stores to put them where needed. If such stores still exist and could fit, then maybe they could be used as replacements.
HMNB Singapore is capable of doing some of these things:
1. Rebuild Boilers and all that entails including steam lines and fuel lines.
2. Electrical work. Rebuilding Generators and replacing, new and replacing cabling, motor rebuilding and replacement and control work.
3. Hydraulic work. New lines, new motors, new pumps, controls and such.
4. Communication gear. radios new,rebuilt , updates and new installs. Radar installs, updates and repair.
5. Ordnance work. Replace a 15" gun, no, replace a 5" or lower, should be able to do. Able to install, update and repair AA guns up to 4.7 easily including ammunition handling. Gun laying equipment replace, updating and repair. Ammunition checking both new and old and reloading ships magazines.
6. General hull work. Scrapping the hull, repainting the hull, replacing sacrificial zinc of various sizes, replacing and repair of hull including new and rebuilt frame and hull plates. Rebuilding the inlets and outlets in the hull and repair as needed.
7. Miscellaneous work. Cordage, damage control material, spare and new machinery for things like the mess and crew comfort. Ships stores replaced and updated. Other type as needed.
1. Rebuild Boilers and all that entails including steam lines and fuel lines.
2. Electrical work. Rebuilding Generators and replacing, new and replacing cabling, motor rebuilding and replacement and control work.
3. Hydraulic work. New lines, new motors, new pumps, controls and such.
4. Communication gear. radios new,rebuilt , updates and new installs. Radar installs, updates and repair.
5. Ordnance work. Replace a 15" gun, no, replace a 5" or lower, should be able to do. Able to install, update and repair AA guns up to 4.7 easily including ammunition handling. Gun laying equipment replace, updating and repair. Ammunition checking both new and old and reloading ships magazines.
6. General hull work. Scrapping the hull, repainting the hull, replacing sacrificial zinc of various sizes, replacing and repair of hull including new and rebuilt frame and hull plates. Rebuilding the inlets and outlets in the hull and repair as needed.
7. Miscellaneous work. Cordage, damage control material, spare and new machinery for things like the mess and crew comfort. Ships stores replaced and updated. Other type as needed.
Thanks. But are the HMNB Singapore facilities up to the standards at Soerbaja? There have been some previous posts
about the exceptionally high quality work available there.
Singapore was not an average shipyard. On the crane point there was a 250 tonne lift capacity Titan crane installed, that's the same size/capacity as those at the main UK dockyards. A 15" gun including breech was 'only' 100T, the barrel itself barely 50T, so they definitely could lift guns out at Singapore. There was an armaments depot on site, as well as a separate torpedo depot, but I can't find a definite statement on what exactly that meant.
However there is no sense in building a 250T crane unless you can do something with the things you've just lifted out, so I suspect there probably was a facility for re-lining guns on site. As AstroStark said above the main limitation is the weight of the things, once you've lifted the guns out and got them onto a wagon then you've done the hard part.
However there is no sense in building a 250T crane unless you can do something with the things you've just lifted out, so I suspect there probably was a facility for re-lining guns on site. As AstroStark said above the main limitation is the weight of the things, once you've lifted the guns out and got them onto a wagon then you've done the hard part.
Ramp-Rat
Monthly Donor
Singapore was far from an average shipyard, as it was designed to support a major British fleet, and a great deal of money was spent on it. However the lack of a large industrial base to support it, meant that it was always reliant on Britain for the majority of complex parts. Much like the USN’s mobile fleet repair bases in the Pacific, it could carry out basic repairs, maintenance and replacements of worn out parts. And more than the American mobile bases, it could provided it had the parts, conduct refits and rebuilds, especially of smaller vessels. Plus build from scratch minor units, such as motor boats and small minesweepers. As for the day to day work of replacing worn out equipment such as guns, and conducting a hull cleaning, it’s large dry docks fixed and floating, plus its large crane, meant that there wasn’t a single British or American ship it couldn’t accommodate. But when it comes to conducting a major repair, refit or rebuild, just as with the Americans in the Pacific, ships have to be sent back to the yards in the homeland. Note American ships were not sent to Pearl its closest equivalent for truly major work, but rather to the yards in California and Washington State, or even those on the East Coast. As for re-lining guns, I suspect but do not know, that Singapore could manage this for everything up to 6 inches, but could only replace guns above this, with the guns having to be sent back to their manufacturer in the United Kingdom.
RR.
Fatboy Coxy
Monthly Donor
All this talk about what the Singapore Naval Base can or can't fix, I guess I'm gonna have to find some big things for it to play with, and we can discuss whether it can or can't fix that!
There are almost certainly HE shells. Singapore was primarily a RN Naval Base, and many RN battleships had 15" guns and carried a proportion of their ammo load as HE for them. I don't know what proportion that was, but it almost doesn't matter - if Singapore is expected to resupply them, they will have what they consider to be an adequate number of HE rounds available for any reasonable resupply needs. I would imagine that's at least a few hundred 15" HE rounds, and if the 15" coastal defence guns of Singapore need to fire more than a few hundred HE rounds, then the situation has already gone very differently to OTL.
Do they have HE , yes, they resupply the fleet so will have stocks of all types of ammo. Will it work, more of a question, storage in the humid conditions was troublesome so many duds are possible depending on how long it has sat in the bunkers. Turrets can fire 360 but each will have dead zones due to having to clear over obstacles ( same problem as all fixed artillery has)
There's actually a bunch of sources saying that Singapore had no 15" HE shells;
navyhistory.au
Richard Holmes' book "The Bitter End" quotes one of the gunners from another battery saying the 15" had no HE.
Falk in "Seventy Days to Singapore" says the 15s had no HE and the 9.2s had only 30 rounds.
Farrell in "The Defence of Singapore 1941-42" says confirms that HE was scarce for the smaller guns and that the 15" had none. One 15" HE shell was sourced in the naval base.
Farrell makes the point that there was still concern that the Japanese could attack from seaward and that the Fixed Defences should be mainly reserved for that. The "fortress" wasn't really short of field artillery, with about 150 guns, but the problems were fields of fire, spotting of fall of shot, and lack of space to hide guns.
The Guns of Singapore - Naval Historical Society of Australia
One of the great mysteries of World War 2 was the ultimate fate of Singapore’s batteries of 15 inch guns. Records do not clearly indicate whether all the guns were
navyhistory.au
Richard Holmes' book "The Bitter End" quotes one of the gunners from another battery saying the 15" had no HE.
Falk in "Seventy Days to Singapore" says the 15s had no HE and the 9.2s had only 30 rounds.
Farrell in "The Defence of Singapore 1941-42" says confirms that HE was scarce for the smaller guns and that the 15" had none. One 15" HE shell was sourced in the naval base.
Farrell makes the point that there was still concern that the Japanese could attack from seaward and that the Fixed Defences should be mainly reserved for that. The "fortress" wasn't really short of field artillery, with about 150 guns, but the problems were fields of fire, spotting of fall of shot, and lack of space to hide guns.