What are some possible presidential races with military leaders on both tickets? How would they go?
Alternative title: Gen. Petraeus vs. Adm. Fallon
Alternative title: Gen. Petraeus vs. Adm. Fallon
MacArthur vs. Eisenhower and other military presidential races
- Thread starter Strategos' Risk
- Start date
1948 or 1952? And do they both fully devote themselves to campaigning?
As for the modern senario, Petraeus wins the GOP nomination over Fallon. Same if you mean general election.
As for the modern senario, Petraeus wins the GOP nomination over Fallon. Same if you mean general election.
1. No, I mean any post-1900 election.
2. Fallon would be a Democratic nominee, similar to Wesley Clark.
2. Fallon would be a Democratic nominee, similar to Wesley Clark.
1. In 1952, assuming MacArthur did not run in 1948, I think Taft supports Mac and he beats Eisenhower on the convention floor. Eisnhower accepts the will of the GOP convention and supports the nominee; then retires and cusses MaC until the day he dies. MacArthur goes on to victory in November over Adlai. Cold War changes dramatically---different discussion.
2. 2008-Obama beats Fallon for the nomination; Patraeus is smart enough not torun.
2012-Obama still beats Fallon for the nomination and any Republican beats Obama. Patraeus, if he runs, wins the GOP nomination narrowly with Romney a close second. But I really do not think Patraeus will run.
2. 2008-Obama beats Fallon for the nomination; Patraeus is smart enough not torun.
2012-Obama still beats Fallon for the nomination and any Republican beats Obama. Patraeus, if he runs, wins the GOP nomination narrowly with Romney a close second. But I really do not think Patraeus will run.
1. We had a Dewey beats Truman timeline where MacArthur gets angry at the former's handling of the Korean War, and attempts to run for the presidency as a Democrat. Kefauver beats him to it, though.
2. Obama could be a one-termer.
2. Obama could be a one-termer.
1. I could see MacArthur winning the 1948 general election. The problem is the Republican nomination. Even that I could see him winning if he comes home and fights for it with everything he has. Alot of powerful GOP and other political figures would have supported him if they had really believed the 1948 run was for real.
2. I think HCR sealed the deal for one-term Obama; I also see a GOP controlled House in 2010.
2. I think HCR sealed the deal for one-term Obama; I also see a GOP controlled House in 2010.
I wish. I mean, as a Republican I certainly hope he's a one-termer, but it's hardly guaranteed. It's almost impossible to talk about an election that is over two years away with any degree of accuracy. At this point 4 years ago, we were expecting a Giuliani vs. Clinton race in 2008. I'd say the Republicans have a good shot at taking back the House in 2010, but I don't think that that is guaranteed either.Anyway, as to the OP:
Wesley Clark vs. David Petraeus (yes I realize that I probably mispelled that) could have happened. Maybe if Clark did better in the 2004 primaries he would have run again in 2008. Butterflies give him the nomination. Petraeus doesn't like his war policies and runs against him in 2012.
Welsey Clark vs. Colin Powell
Bush doesn't run in 2000, Powell manages to get the Republican nomination. If Powell beats Gore in 2000, maybe the Dems nominate Clark in 2004. Or if we put some POD in the 1990s to hurt Gore politically, then Clark could take the 2000 nomination.
Alexander Haig vs. Miscellaneous Democratic military guy
Not sure how to give him the nomination. Maybe if Reagan is assasinated (and Haig avoids his ridiculous OTL gaffe) then he could launch a primary challenge to Bush from the right in 1984. Or maybe if Reagan encourages him, he could take the nomination from Bush in 1988. I don't know if there are any Democratic military leaders with enough stature in this era though.
pnyckqx
Banned
There was a reason that Truman allowed MacArthur to stay in Japan after 1945 while bringing Eisenhower home.
In 1948 the Democratic party was split between the mainstream faction of Truman-Barkley, former VP Henry Wallace, and the 'Dixiecrats' with Strom Thurmond.
Even though he neither set foot in the US in 1948 nor formally announced a candidacy, MacArthur managed to win six state primaries. Had he actively campaigned, he'd have easily taken the Republican Nomination, and even more easily beaten Truman.
The Korean war would have been a radically different event under President MacArthur, and we might not even be speaking of the PRC and ROC (Taiwan) any more, as the PRC would not exist.
pnyckqx
Banned
Ignore my last post on this thread.
It seems that I need to read the OP before I make an @$$ out of myself.
1868: (R) Ulysses S. Grant - (D) Robert E. Lee
1876: (R) Rutherford B. Hayes - (D) Winfield Scott Hancock
1880: (R) James A. Garfield - (D) Winfield Scott Hancock
1884: (R) John A. Logan - (D) Samuel J. Randall
1888: (R) Benjamin Harrison - (D) Samuel J. Randall
1892: (R) Benjamin Harrison - (D) John M. Palmer
1896: (R) William McKinley - (D) Joseph C. S. Blackburn
1900: (R) William McKinley - (D) George Dewey
1876: (R) Rutherford B. Hayes - (D) Winfield Scott Hancock
1880: (R) James A. Garfield - (D) Winfield Scott Hancock
1884: (R) John A. Logan - (D) Samuel J. Randall
1888: (R) Benjamin Harrison - (D) Samuel J. Randall
1892: (R) Benjamin Harrison - (D) John M. Palmer
1896: (R) William McKinley - (D) Joseph C. S. Blackburn
1900: (R) William McKinley - (D) George Dewey
...Civil War 2 fires up in 1869, no matter who wins, presuming that Lee is even allowed to run...
usertron2020
Donor
Hup, two, three, four...
*sigh*
I thought this was supposed to be a thread about 20th/21st Century Generals running AGAINST each other in the same election? Well, FYI, the pickings are mighty slim. In case anybody didn't know, 97% of all US Generals/Admirals are registered members of the GOP. That leaves 3% for Independents and Democrats. I think we can give the benefit of the doubt to the "Lonesome 3-percenters" that they don't include any Fascists, Nazis, Greens, Socialists, or Communists. But you can also assume these officers represent the "blue-est" of Bluedog Democrats (Hard right Dems-think just left of center GOP, except pro-guns).
So you basically have a desert of choices for the Democratic candidate. People may try to jam that square peg into the Democratic round hole, but except for Wesley Clark, who has proven his Democratic bonafides as much as he has proven he is NO politician, there just isn't one out there for the last generation! In fact, you have to go back to before the Civil War! Besides, in our 24/7 media age, generals are FAR too thin-skinned to tolerate the abuses of the election process. They are, as a group, "my way or the highway" kind of people. That's one reason why the only general elected POTUS since Grant was the congenial consensus builder, Eisenhower.
another*sigh*
May I ask why every third poster seems congenitally compelled to toss in a pointless second comment along the lines of: "And of course, Obama will be defeated in 2012". Gee, nobody ever said he was in the military, much less a General! He's only 48 years old! WOW! Talk about your successful military careers! Not only one of the fastest promoted generals in modern history, but doing so in secret? And running a successful political career in Congress too? Isn't that illegal?
I specifically remember him being interviewed and questioned about his career. The questioner said:"Didn't you consider joining the military when you graduated high school?" Obama:"Well, yes, I did. But it was 1979, there was no war, no draft, but I did register for the draft. But there just wasn't any national crisis at the time to indicate I was needed. So I went to law school instead." Disowning the four stars on his uniform!? And people were upset about his birth certificate? Spending four long years, at taxpayer's expense, earning his right to join the US Army Officer Corps, and now he makes like it never happened! If we could just get one picture of him in his cadet's uniform, just one picture...
Unfortunately, when I looked it up, turns out General Obama can resign his commission anytime he wants, no effect.
*sigh*
I thought this was supposed to be a thread about 20th/21st Century Generals running AGAINST each other in the same election? Well, FYI, the pickings are mighty slim. In case anybody didn't know, 97% of all US Generals/Admirals are registered members of the GOP. That leaves 3% for Independents and Democrats. I think we can give the benefit of the doubt to the "Lonesome 3-percenters" that they don't include any Fascists, Nazis, Greens, Socialists, or Communists.
But you can also assume these officers represent the "blue-est" of Bluedog Democrats (Hard right Dems-think just left of center GOP, except pro-guns).So you basically have a desert of choices for the Democratic candidate. People may try to jam that square peg into the Democratic round hole, but except for Wesley Clark, who has proven his Democratic bonafides as much as he has proven he is NO politician, there just isn't one out there for the last generation! In fact, you have to go back to before the Civil War! Besides, in our 24/7 media age, generals are FAR too thin-skinned to tolerate the abuses of the election process. They are, as a group, "my way or the highway" kind of people. That's one reason why the only general elected POTUS since Grant was the congenial consensus builder, Eisenhower.
another*sigh*
May I ask why every third poster seems congenitally compelled to toss in a pointless second comment along the lines of: "And of course, Obama will be defeated in 2012". Gee, nobody ever said he was in the military, much less a General!
He's only 48 years old! WOW! Talk about your successful military careers! Not only one of the fastest promoted generals in modern history, but doing so in secret? And running a successful political career in Congress too? Isn't that illegal?I specifically remember him being interviewed and questioned about his career. The questioner said:"Didn't you consider joining the military when you graduated high school?" Obama:"Well, yes, I did. But it was 1979, there was no war, no draft, but I did register for the draft. But there just wasn't any national crisis at the time to indicate I was needed. So I went to law school instead." Disowning the four stars on his uniform!?
And people were upset about his birth certificate? Spending four long years, at taxpayer's expense, earning his right to join the US Army Officer Corps, and now he makes like it never happened! If we could just get one picture of him in his cadet's uniform, just one picture...Unfortunately, when I looked it up, turns out General Obama can resign his commission anytime he wants, no effect.
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usertron2020
Donor
NOT A CHANCE
And he did it in his Class-A uniform, complete with all ribbons and medals, and slapping a riding crop in his hands! Doing this with the full knowledge that the newsreel cameras were running. All he would have needed to complete the picture was to get on a black horse and start speaking in a spanish accent. I imagine the Communists must have had a propaganda field day. He became the instant national darling of the ultraright, but the pariah of the entire left AND center.
If he got the nomination, Truman will win, in 1948 and/or 1952. If Truman's not running, Stevenson's facing the only candidate he CAN beat.
No, don't let anyone fool you. No way does the working man, or veteran, or their families, forget the Summer of 1932. It wasn't that MacArthur followed his orders. He exceeded them by firing the Washington Hooverville. It was that HE PERSONALLY, AS THE US ARMY CHIEF OF STAFF, oversaw an operation fit to be commanded by a Colonel, at most.
And he did it in his Class-A uniform, complete with all ribbons and medals, and slapping a riding crop in his hands! Doing this with the full knowledge that the newsreel cameras were running. All he would have needed to complete the picture was to get on a black horse and start speaking in a spanish accent. I imagine the Communists must have had a propaganda field day. He became the instant national darling of the ultraright, but the pariah of the entire left AND center.
If he got the nomination, Truman will win, in 1948 and/or 1952. If Truman's not running, Stevenson's facing the only candidate he CAN beat.
I want to see more scenarios where Obama made Admiral Fallon his VP and then he runs after Obama does
AmIndHistoryAuthor
Banned
I wish I could find that Army Times article for you. Basically, their poll found support for the GOP among the military is at an all time low, something like 40% if I remember right. As a general rule there are far more vets who've run as Dems than Repubs. It wouldn't surprise me if independents out number both parties, the best known example being Schwarzkopf, or for that matter, Eisenhower for most of his life, up to the time he was courted by both parties for the nomination.
I grant you the officer corps is probably more Republican than the general population, but the enlisted certainly weren't in my experience.
Let me throw one in the mix: Ike vs Jocko Clark in 56.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_J._Clark
http://www.jacklummus.com/Files/Files_R/rear_admiral_joseph_james_jocko_clark.htm
http://www.jacklummus.com/Files/Files_C/Clark_Hope.htm
http://www.amazon.com/Warpath-Pacific-Admiral-Jocko-Carriers/dp/1591147166
Be interesting to see how Clark would handle something like Little Rock.
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usertron2020
Donor
I don't question anything you have just written. But MY point was about GENERALS/ADMIRALS. It is they who are 97% GOP.
Having army generals vs. non-army generals would be fun. Smedley Butler for president, anyone? Curtis LeMay headlining a ticket, maybe?