Lack of spread of Potatoes

Sian

Sian

how would Europe evolve if potatoes never spread? say either by failure to spot the potentials (kinda like Quinoa), more stringent climatic needs, much more conservative agriculture, being slightly poisonous (with Native Americans having evolved resistances against such ... like lactose persistence in Europe)

For one, we'd probably have a lower population growth due to less agricultural potential from 1700~, hence prehaps fewer wars due to relatively smaller armies.
 
BELFAST

BELFAST

Big change in Ireland.
larger farms in Ireland.
No potato famine.
Irish language might survive longer.
 

ArKhan

Russian peasants are even worse off, with less crops and less food. Vodka is either never invented, or is called something else entirely, with a name coming either from Native American languages, or one of the European languages that settled the Americas.
 

ingemann

Banned
It's almost impossible to imagine that the potato don't spread to Europe, the European climate is perfect to it, it fit into North European cuisine (which was full of tubers and onions) and there's no alternate plant which give the same amount calories per square food, which easily grow in Europe. So short of Europeans never discovering America, I can't see the potato failling to spread.
 

Flocculencio

Donor
Sian said:
how would Europe evolve if potatoes never spread? say either by failure to spot the potentials (kinda like Quinoa), more stringent climatic needs, much more conservative agriculture, being slightly poisonous (with Native Americans having evolved resistances against such ... like lactose persistence in Europe)

For one, we'd probably have a lower population growth due to less agricultural potential from 1700~, hence prehaps fewer wars due to relatively smaller armies.
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Not just Europe- you'll see lower populations across the whole of Eurasia- potatoes caused a massive population boom in China too, and while less important in Northern India would still have helped. Hell, even in South India and SE Asia potatoes did help to add some extra carbs and were quite enthusiastically adopted.

But as ingemann says, it's unlikely that the potato wouldn't spread- it's hardy, generally adaptable and easy to transport.
 

david31

There is an article in "More What if" by William H McNeill (What if Pizarro Had Not Found Potatoes in Peru) where the author contends that potatoes introduced from Spain's New World possessions was instrumental in supporting the Spanish Hegemony in Europe as well as feeding the slave labour in the Peruvian silver mines.

He argues that the humble spud also helped the native Irish resist the attempts of the Commonwealth government to settle Cromwell's disbanded soldiers on confiscated land after 1652, rescued Prussian peasants from famine in the era of Frederick the Great when invaded by foreign powers and generally supported the expansion of European power in the 19th and early 20th centuries.

An example he gives is that whilst during the 30 Years War (1618-48) the population of Germany fell by 20%, during the equally warlike years of the 18th century it actually increased.

All thanks apparently to the humble spud!
 

Elfwine

david31 said:
There is an article in "More What if" by William H McNeill (What if Pizarro Had Not Found Potatoes in Peru) where the author contends that potatoes introduced from Spain's New World possessions was instrumental in supporting the Spanish Hegemony in Europe as well as feeding the slave labour in the Peruvian silver mines.

He argues that the humble spud also helped the native Irish resist the attempts of the Commonwealth government to settle Cromwell's disbanded soldiers on confiscated land after 1652, rescued Prussian peasants from famine in the era of Frederick the Great when invaded by foreign powers and generally supported the expansion of European power in the 19th and early 20th centuries.

An example he gives is that whilst during the 30 Years War (1618-48) the population of Germany fell by 20%, during the equally warlike years of the 18th century it actually increased.

All thanks apparently to the humble spud!
Click to expand...

But how much of the 18th century's wars were fought over German soil, meaning wrecking German farms and conscripting (even if not killing directly, this means removing from the breeding population) German peasants in large numbers?

I'm not going to say the spud had nothing to do with it, bu that's rather relevant to why a population would drop.
 

marcinL

ArKhan said:
Russian peasants are even worse off, with less crops and less food. Vodka is either never invented, or is called something else entirely, with a name coming either from Native American languages, or one of the European languages that settled the Americas.
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Vodka name comes from "woda" meaning water an can be made from pretty anything, even if in Poland (and other vodka belt countries probably too) is mostly made of grain (rye), potatoes and sugar beet.

Without potatoes we still have turnips (which sucks i believe), grain and other stuff. Europe will have enough food for people, but less food for animals (pigs) until great amounts of maize from America and so on can be imported. Eastern European countries may be better if food prices are higher, and better developed agriculturally.
 
BELFAST

BELFAST

The big effect potatoes had on Ireland was in decreasing the amount of land needed to feed tenant farmers.
This allowed more land to be used to grow grain for export and to pay rent on land.
as grain was labour intensive people need large families to harvest the grain leading to population increase.
As rent for land went up tenant farmers were forced to rent smaller farms.
Farms became smaller and smaller leading increased poverty amount tenant farmers.
 
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phx1138

Take the flipside: if potatoes are less common, it means the Irish are less dependent on them, so when blight strikes, there's less/no Irish famine & less/no Irish migration...:eek:
 
Sian

Sian

would it be ASB if we'd give Potatoes slighty higher concentrations of Solanine, and let Native Indians evolve partial immunity to the toxic, at least to a degree where potatoes are still a viable food-source for them? (given that potatoes where domisticated between 8-5000 BC, they'll have quite some time to 'get used to it' ... roughly the same amount of time as dairy farmers in Europe and western Asia had to become lactose tolerant though genetic mutation)
 

wkwillis

chilis to chocolate

Read "Chilis to chocolate", a book about American crops that did and did not make the Columbian Exchange to the Old World.
South America had many tuber crops. Cassava, sweet potato, and potatoes made it across rather easily, but the others did not. Oca made it to New Zealand. Oca is supposed to taste like a potato with sour cream on it.
 

mowque

Banned
It is tough to say since the potato is probably one of the most important plants in European history. The changes are so broad as to be all-consuming.
 

mosodake

ingemann said:
It's almost impossible to imagine that the potato don't spread to Europe, the European climate is perfect to it, it fit into North European cuisine (which was full of tubers and onions) and there's no alternate plant which give the same amount calories per square food, which easily grow in Europe. So short of Europeans never discovering America, I can't see the potato failling to spread.
Click to expand...

Flocculencio said:
But as ingemann says, it's unlikely that the potato wouldn't spread- it's hardy, generally adaptable and easy to transport.
Click to expand...
It's not that hard to do. Just have late blight be introduced early on as the potato is starting to get popular (so there is enough of a host population that the disease can perpetuate), possibly as several mating types so sexual reproduction and formation of resistant spores can occur, and the spread of potatoes (and to a lesser extent tomatoes) would be halted just as it was starting.
 

Nugax

Ireland would be far and away the smallest change from no potatoes in the Old World :p. Ireland might have a high proportion of its historical diet being from the spud but in absolute numbers the potato is far more important elsewhere:

PotatoYield.png


Deduct about 150-200 million europeans and a 100 million each of East and South Asians. Then get back to us.
 
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