Israel under Soviet Union patronage

clendor

Israel, at the beginning, was a very very Socialist society (in fact, at the first few years of it's establishment people could buy only a limited amount of basic producs and luxery per period of time. It was called the "tzena" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Austerity_in_Israel).
Also, the partition plan was one of the only votes at the UN that the USA and the USSR agreed on.
So the POD is that after the Russian soldiers released the Jews in the extermination and the concetration camps from the nazis, the USSR released it's own "balfour declaration". The USSR becomes a patron to the Zionists, like the USA was (and is). The USSR will start giving support to the Jewish settlers in the British-mandate Palestine.
What do you think will happen next? I guess the USA will probably send support the arabs (maybe not at '48, but maybe at the 60's, if Israel will survive.
And that's the main question. The arabs at '48 haven't had any foreign support. Will Israel survive with Soviet help, instead of American?
By the way: Did you know that today Israel has the second biggest population of Russians (after Russia, of course)?
 
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clendor

I just thought about it. Maybe the USSR will make peace at the middle east? Maybe they will want to have both the arabs and Jews? It may change the whole way of the cold war. No American fortress at the Middle East can can change pretty much a lot. Or will Israel/Palestine will become the new vietnam?
 

anon_user

Except the US is likely to back the Arabs in this scenario, probably through something like CENTO. You probably need someone other than the anti-Semitic Stalin in power for Israel to be a Soviet patron, but it's certainly not unreasonable for that to happen if Stalin dies earlier than OTL.
 

clendor

So let's say Stalin died at 1936. Georgy malenkov (or anybody else) goes to the top. Will he support the Jews?
 
black angel

black angel

I doubt that in 1948, Truman would piss off loyal Democratic Jewish Voters and start backing the Arabs, no votes in that, and the Israelis aren't dumb they'll play both sides to get what they want/need
 
Aelita

Aelita

It would definitely be a brave new world. Israel as Soviet ally would probably be considered the "crown jewel" of the global Marxist left, similar to how East Germany was the society IOTL that Marxists intellectuals generally favored the most in the Eastern bloc.
 

Analytical Engine

IIRC, Stalin actually supported the creation of Israel, but then saw that it wouldn't be his loyal puppet, so he ditched his support sharpish.

Mind you, it could just have been pragmatism in getting rid of Russia's Jews and putting them somewhere else...
 

yourworstnightmare

Banned
clendor said:
Israel, at the beginning, was a very very Socialist society (in fact, at the first few years of it's establishment people could buy only a limited amount of basic producs and luxery per period of time. It was called the "tzena" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Austerity_in_Israel).
Also, the partition plan was one of the only votes at the UN that the USA and the USSR agreed on.
So the POD is that anti-semitic Stalin died at 1936, and after the Russian soldiers released the Jews in the extermination and the concetration camps from the nazis, the USSR released it's own "balfour declaration". The USSR becomes a patron to the Zionists, like the USA was (and is). The USSR will start giving support to the Jewish settlers in the British-mandate Palestine.
What do you think will happen next? I guess the USA will probably send support the arabs (maybe not at '48, but maybe at the 60's, if Israel will survive.
And that's the main question. The arabs at '48 haven't had any foreign support. Will Israel survive with Soviet help, instead of American?
By the way: Did you know that today Israel has the second biggest population of Russians (after Russia, of course)?
Click to expand...
Butterfly alert. You'll have a completely different USSR post 1936. No guarantees World History would go like OTL to the late 40s.
 

WarBastard

Banned
Stalin was not particularly anti-semitic, and was the first international leader to recognise Israel.
 
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clendor

Where is this "A World of Laughter, A World of Tears"?

And anyway, you think Stalin would be happy to get rid of all Russia's jews and put them in Israel? The Soviets disagreed to do that later OTL ("prisoners of zion"). And if they can, I am not sure the newly-born state can recieve that much population?
 

clendor

I can't see any soviet union's patronage at this scenario...

Do you think the Soviet Union will make peace at the middle east? that's would be a... I can't even start to describe what wonderful world that's would be, at least at this region.
And anyway, the lack of an American fortress in the middle east would change a lot in the cold war, isn't it?
 

Alexius

clendor said:
And anyway, the lack of an American fortress in the middle east would change a lot in the cold war, isn't it?
Click to expand...
While it wouldn't be an American fortress to the same extent, the Americans might well end up propping up say Lebanon, Syria or Egypt.
Other possible implications:
Might Britain remain East of Suez for longer ITTL?
Would there be a resurgence of, if not anti-Semitism, then distrust of Jews in the West? I can certainly see there being more Rosenbergs ITTL, as all Jews are suspected of being loyal to Israel (especially if they have relatives there).
 

clendor

Alexius said:
While it wouldn't be an American fortress to the same extent, the Americans might well end up propping up say Lebanon, Syria or Egypt.
Other possible implications:
Might Britain remain East of Suez for longer ITTL?
Would there be a resurgence of, if not anti-Semitism, then distrust of Jews in the West? I can certainly see there being more Rosenbergs ITTL, as all Jews are suspected of being loyal to Israel (especially if they have relatives there).
Click to expand...

I don't think the Americans will actually support Antisemitic or anti-israelian states becasue of the many Jews in America (today it's just like the number of Jews in Israel).
You are probably right about the rest, but why (unless Israel takes sinai) should britain remain at Suez?
 

NothingNow

Banned
Probably not much changes. The Israelis might use more Soviet equipment, and they might allow more emigration to Israel, but that's it on the Domestic front. OTOH Israel's enemies would be much more poorly equipped, since the US isn't going to give them weapons they'll just use against the Israelis.
 

NothingNow

Banned
clendor said:
I don't think the Americans will actually support Antisemitic or anti-israelian states becasue of the many Jews in America (today it's just like the number of Jews in Israel).
You are probably right about the rest, but why (unless Israel takes sinai) should britain remain at Suez?
Click to expand...
Actually,there are More Jews in the US then there are in Israel and the rest of the world combined.
 
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