From Blight we Rise

WOW! loving this, I was thinking about writing somthing similar to this but didn't have the knowledge base to do so. Im excited to see how this pans out in the long run!
 
Enjoying this time line.

Hope I'm not going on too much about the deer. But do their herders have a way of ranging them, like our sheep and cattle, or do they use heavy fences, like our red deer? If they do fence them, does such property become a highly desirable prize of war, or are there customs to keep it out of the fray? Do they castrate most, any, or no males? How do they handle rut?

And how does the society handle the effects of the nicotine plant, especially on overdose?

Not trying to discourage you. I hope this tl goes on a long time.

Glad you like the so far. Now onto your questions.

They are mostly ranged animals during this era. That being said traders typically have their animals penned in when traveling the distances between chiefdoms. War is still a very primitive institution during this time and the city-states and chiefdoms don't generally exert enough control over the typically pastoral deer herders to fight over the lands they are found in. While the deer herders have their roots in sedentary life the need ranging larger herds has resulted in this pastoral life that keeps them fairly autonomous of the chiefdoms and city-states. Since these pastoral herders generally sell to the highest bidder they are generally kept out of the limited conflicts between the chiefdoms and city-states of the Ohio River basin. The smaller farms that farm the deer do have them penned in but typically have much smaller herds with 15 animals generally being the largest at a given time.


Castration of most of the farm raised males is typical. It is generally pre-puberty and these males are generally slaughtered after a year. Because it is still early in the domestication process males in rut are still very dangerous and generally kept away from other breeding males. The antlers are prized and used as religious emblems so the nicer the antlers the greater the profit. Males can be dangerous in rut, but not as dangerous as most modern farmed deer, thanks to some 450 years of domestication. Accidents still happen and farmers and herders can still be killed by males, but it isn't as large a risk and is a risk worth taking by the farmers considering the profit

I hope I answered all of your questions. I'll galdly answer any other question you or anyone else have about the TL so far.

WOW! loving this, I was thinking about writing somthing similar to this but didn't have the knowledge base to do so. Im excited to see how this pans out in the long run!

glad you like it so much, I hope it continues to catch your interests.
 
Thank you, General Finley. Very satisfactory answer! This sounds an interesting society.

Has nicotine use been institutionalised, or is it a private matter?

By the way, compliments on your map.
 
Thank you, General Finley. Very satisfactory answer! This sounds an interesting society.

Has nicotine use been institutionalised, or is it a private matter?

By the way, compliments on your map.

oops, I just realiezed that I didn't answer your question about the plant.

smoking of the plant is fairly restricted to shamans at this time. This will likely change in the future, but as things are at the moment we don't have things like huka bars or mainstream smoking by a large section of the populous.
 
Now I know I may be asking for too much info too early but im interested to know if you will include domestication of bison, importation of llamas and alpacas, or potatoes from south america. Oh and will you have them invent the wheel, that would certainly be helpfull.

Also what role do dogs play are they used for hearding purposes etc?
 
Now I know I may be asking for too much info too early but im interested to know if you will include domestication of bison, importation of llamas and alpacas, or potatoes from south america. Oh and will you have them invent the wheel, that would certainly be helpfull.

Also what role do dogs play are they used for hearding purposes etc?

Some of your guestions will be answered in detail in future updates, but I can say that you won't be seeing llamas, alpacas, or potatoes in North America. Contact between North and South America will be limited at best.
 
... as much as i would like to see some sort of pan-american agriculture develop that shouldn't deter my interest in this thread :D

Just as I had suspected my questions can not be answered yet... I guess that means you can't tell me if you will be puting fermented (alchoholic) beverages in america before european arrival as well?
 
Great timeline:) Agricultural PODs are always interesting.

Just one nitpick: The color in elderberries is quite unstable and breaks down rapidly in light and oxygen, so it would probably not be used on pottery and for tattoos. Even as a fabric dye it is not particularly long lasting. Iron or copper salts might improve the lasting quality, but they would change the color. For tattoos, soot or black iron oxide would work better, and pottery is generally colored with minerals instead of organic material. Purple ceramics are actually quite difficult to achieve. Copper salts can sometimes make purple, but are hard to control, and I'm not sure even the Europeans had technology to achieve purple.

oops, I just realiezed that I didn't answer your question about the plant.

smoking of the plant is fairly restricted to shamans at this time. This will likely change in the future, but as things are at the moment we don't have things like huka bars or mainstream smoking by a large section of the populous.
Nicotiana rustica is far stronger than common tobacco and its use in our timeline was fairly restricted since the effects are much more dramatic than with smoking a cigarette. Unless strains with lower nicotine content are developed, N. rustica probably isn't going to catch on as well in the rest of the world as N. tabacum.
 
Haha, taking inspiration from my Salmon and Totems TL? :p

I watch with interest

Land of Salmon and Totems and Lands of Red and Gold pretty much got me inspired to do this TL. I've been doing tones of research inorder to try and do this.

Great timeline:) Agricultural PODs are always interesting.

Just one nitpick: The color in elderberries is quite unstable and breaks down rapidly in light and oxygen, so it would probably not be used on pottery and for tattoos. Even as a fabric dye it is not particularly long lasting. Iron or copper salts might improve the lasting quality, but they would change the color. For tattoos, soot or black iron oxide would work better, and pottery is generally colored with minerals instead of organic material. Purple ceramics are actually quite difficult to achieve. Copper salts can sometimes make purple, but are hard to control, and I'm not sure even the Europeans had technology to achieve purple.

Glad you like it, wow, I go talking about the research I did with this TL and overlooked somthing like that. The only thing I have to say is that the dye when used in tattoos was not used as the agent itself as the sap is toxic. It was used to create the outline of the patter to be made.

Nicotiana rustica is far stronger than common tobacco and its use in our timeline was fairly restricted since the effects are much more dramatic than with smoking a cigarette. Unless strains with lower nicotine content are developed, N. rustica probably isn't going to catch on as well in the rest of the world as N. tabacum.

I wasn't reall planning on having it be widely smoked like N. Tabacum
I was thinking its role might evolve into somthing more along the lines of opium in the West.
 
glad you like it, I'll ry and fix the typos.

*Giggles*

No worries. In most cases it was perfectly sensible, errors included, but in others it either made the sentence too cumbersome or had the potential to alter the meaning. I'm a bit of a perfectionist myself, especially in writing, so don't worry if I freak out over a tiny misplaced letter or two.

I'm curious, though:

1) The Natives have now experienced some heavy disease issues (some which will be endemic), thus we can expect their immune systems to be _somewhat_ stronger against future European (or Asian? or African?) contact. Somewhat, but not hardened against Smallpox and such. Speaking of...

2) I am assuming, despite the arguments of the *Pro-Butterfly Revisionists [1], that even with such a massive change in the New World, events in the Old World will continue more or less apace with OTL, yes? I ask this because one could argue that an infinitesimal particle on the winds could butterfly such things as Smallpox. Rather absurd, possibly, but I just wanted to check on how far you plan to deviate events outside of the Americas.

3) With aridity of the southwest, the lack of a suitable cross-country mount - again, assuming the domesticated deer will remain a pack animal and not become a transport vehicle, whatever the breeding - and the expanses of the Gulf (for now), I am wondering about contact/interaction with the MesoAmerican cultures. That is, I know you mitigated the avian flu-like issue based on the lack of contact, so the MesoAmericans might then continue to lack the immunity as in OTL. However, you left it open-ended by saying: "death rates caused by purple kiss would remain low except when introduced to population that had never come in contact with the virus." So conceivably there might be future contact - and devastation - of the MesoAmericans, even before Europeans make landfall. That is, of course, assuming contact intra-Americas is made first.

4) Which brings up this question - and I apologize if I'm jumping the gun with all this hind-sighting nonsense, if so just tell me "RAFO" [2] - about the southern refugee migrations and the Mississippian culture. Well, for one, I'm wonder as to their exact location. I'm assuming that (from this map) they are likely in the "Middle Mississippian" around the Kincaid/Wickliffe sort of 'central' location where the Ohio meets the Mississippi. Which makes sense, really, as its the natural cross-country collection of navigable waterways and I'm sure canoes are happily utilized by all Natives by now. That area leads off to the North to the Western Great Lakes region and the city-states fighting there with all their coppery goodness, runs off into the Northeast a bit through and past the Adena's old homeland in Ohio, runs south and east down into the Appalachian foothills of Florence/Shiloh, off to the west as far as the Rockies foothills, as well as being the main artery of the entire continent flushing out into the Gulf.

So ignoring the 'exact' location as yet, let's move on to the actual question (I'm sorry, in a rambling sort of headmood): Will we see, on into the future without too many spoilers, a more southern/coastal society that will develop any sort maritime tradition? Could be interesting to see, but then, I don't know that the natives would want to do so without trade being the driving force. And for that sort of desire for trade, there would have to be pretty regular contact with MesoAmerica for said desire to develop, as well as that MesoAmerican society surviving strong enough, long enough against the 'Purple Kiss' issue.

AND FINALLY... a two-part question - on Culture.

5a) As these fellas now have a writing system, an increasing religious stance what with all their mound-temples, and the sure-to-come ensuing trade network... how similar with this belief system/culture be to the Southeastern Ceremonial Complex of OTL? I can only assume it will share some characteristics, but certainly not all. You know, Butterflies and whatnot. And how unified is the area by this point? Still city-states where the bigger mound brings more prestige/power over neighbors with smaller mounds?

5b) In the Great Lakes region, there has been little said - beyond 'warlike' - culturally there. I expect those fellas to potentially end up like the Maya as far as constant low-level warfare where 'kings' or whatever elites appear are constantly propped up, opposed, executed, and so forth and the 'prestige' of a city-state comes from how many enemy kings they have killed - NOT by how much land they have conquered. In Classical Maya while there was *some* conquest, the gains were never long-lasting as there seemed always to be a new issue elsewhere. However... one issue with the Maya (and Aztec) was the simple lack of a pack animal to carry supplies. This made their campaigning seasons very short as each soldier carried their own food stuffs. How long do you think an army can do that in the field? These guys don't have that sort of issue - indeed, presumably none who have the domesticated deer will have such an issue. So I guess my question is this - less a direct clarification answer than the others - Will we see any more detailed cultural aspects of the Great Lakes societies? That is, will they all belong largely to the 'same' cultural group, or will they - over time - split off into varying groups. That sort of thing. Just something to think about...

[1] 'Pro-Butterfly Revisionists' is a term I use from time to time to illustrate the over-eager proponents to dynamic, immediate, and far-flung deviations from OTL based on the smallest possible alteration. I am a Butterfly Proponent, but I am not one to see a 'for want of a nail' scenario see the end of the world as we know it within a decade or two. The changes will come, but slowly, in a logical sequence, expanding from the 'divergicenter'. [3]

[2] "RAFO" = "Read and find out," basically a 'stop asking so many questions as to ruin the story'

[3] Hehe, last minute play on 'epicenter' in usual "causology" terms.
 
Okay so I'll try and answer your questions to the best of my abilities (and without spoilers).

1) The Natives have now experienced some heavy disease issues (some which will be endemic), thus we can expect their immune systems to be _somewhat_ stronger against future European (or Asian? or African?) contact. Somewhat, but not hardened against Smallpox and such. Speaking of...

Indeed, when eventual contact occures the Native Americans will have a stronger immune system (especially as other diseases evolve in North America). Now diseases like smallpox will still take a terrible toll on the Americans they will stand a better chance. It also means that the disease exchange will be a two way street since Europeans will have no immunity to Purple Kiss.

2) I am assuming, despite the arguments of the *Pro-Butterfly Revisionists [1], that even with such a massive change in the New World, events in the Old World will continue more or less apace with OTL, yes? I ask this because one could argue that an infinitesimal particle on the winds could butterfly such things as Smallpox. Rather absurd, possibly, but I just wanted to check on how far you plan to deviate events outside of the Americas.

I'm going under the assumption that there is a butterfly net around North America since they aren't directly contributing to any of the going ons of Asia, Africa or Europe. Until contact happens don't expect any differences in the Old World.

3) With aridity of the southwest, the lack of a suitable cross-country mount - again, assuming the domesticated deer will remain a pack animal and not become a transport vehicle, whatever the breeding - and the expanses of the Gulf (for now), I am wondering about contact/interaction with the MesoAmerican cultures. That is, I know you mitigated the avian flu-like issue based on the lack of contact, so the MesoAmericans might then continue to lack the immunity as in OTL. However, you left it open-ended by saying: "death rates caused by purple kiss would remain low except when introduced to populations that had never come in contact with the virus." So conceivably there might be future contact - and devastation - of the MesoAmericans, even before Europeans make landfall. That is, of course, assuming contact intra-Americas is made first.


I don't really want to give to much away on this topic, I left it open because I'm unsure about whether there will be contact or not.

4) Which brings up this question - and I apologize if I'm jumping the gun with all this hind-sighting nonsense, if so just tell me "RAFO" [2] - about the southern refugee migrations and the Mississippian culture. Well, for one, I'm wonder as to their exact location. I'm assuming that (from this map) they are likely in the "Middle Mississippian" around the Kincaid/Wickliffe sort of 'central' location where the Ohio meets the Mississippi. Which makes sense, really, as its the natural cross-country collection of navigable waterways and I'm sure canoes are happily utilized by all Natives by now. That area leads off to the North to the Western Great Lakes region and the city-states fighting there with all their coppery goodness, runs off into the Northeast a bit through and past the Adena's old homeland in Ohio, runs south and east down into the Appalachian foothills of Florence/Shiloh, off to the west as far as the Rockies foothills, as well as being the main artery of the entire continent flushing out into the Gulf.

Your are correct in your assumption that the Mississippian culture ITTL has risen in roughly the same region as the OTL Middle Mississippian. Canoes are indeed widely used by the early Classic Period. I've actually got some plans dealing with the different boat building techniques that will arise amongst the Mississipian and the Sawasmoshupshe. One thing though is that the Ohio River basin while the birthplace of eastern North American civilization has lost its prosparity since the collapse. While several minor city-states and chiefdoms persist within the Ohio River Basin it is largely been reduced to horticulture and pastoralism. This will be discussed in full in the next update. Because of this contact between the Mississippian and the Sawasmoshupshe will be limited for most of the early Classic Period.

So ignoring the 'exact' location as yet, let's move on to the actual question (I'm sorry, in a rambling sort of headmood): Will we see, on into the future without too many spoilers, a more southern/coastal society that will develop any sort maritime tradition? Could be interesting to see, but then, I don't know that the natives would want to do so without trade being the driving force. And for that sort of desire for trade, there would have to be pretty regular contact with MesoAmerica for said desire to develop, as well as that MesoAmerican society surviving strong enough, long enough against the 'Purple Kiss' issue.

I can assure you that there will be at least one coastal society that will have a maritime (to some degree). The Mississippians may not be the people that eventually do this, but it will happen between now and 1492.

AND FINALLY... a two-part question - on Culture.
5a) As these fellas now have a writing system, an increasing religious stance what with all their mound-temples, and the sure-to-come ensuing trade network... how similar with this belief system/culture be to the Southeastern Ceremonial Complex of OTL? I can only assume it will share some characteristics, but certainly not all. You know, Butterflies and whatnot. And how unified is the area by this point? Still city-states where the bigger mound brings more prestige/power over neighbors with smaller mounds?

5b) In the Great Lakes region, there has been little said - beyond 'warlike' - culturally there. I expect those fellas to potentially end up like the Maya as far as constant low-level warfare where 'kings' or whatever elites appear are constantly propped up, opposed, executed, and so forth and the 'prestige' of a city-state comes from how many enemy kings they have killed - NOT by how much land they have conquered. In Classical Maya while there was *some* conquest, the gains were never long-lasting as there seemed always to be a new issue elsewhere. However... one issue with the Maya (and Aztec) was the simple lack of a pack animal to carry supplies. This made their campaigning seasons very short as each soldier carried their own food stuffs. How long do you think an army can do that in the field? These guys don't have that sort of issue - indeed, presumably none who have the domesticated deer will have such an issue. So I guess my question is this - less a direct clarification answer than the others - Will we see any more detailed cultural aspects of the Great Lakes societies? That is, will they all belong largely to the 'same' cultural group, or will they - over time - split off into varying groups. That sort of thing. Just something to think about...


I mostly skipped out on describing them in this update because I'm doing a seperate update that details the Mississipian People and the Great Lakes people. The next update should answer all of your question and will be an in depth development of the two people's and the pastoralists of the Ohio River basin. This update was mostly about getting through the "Dark Age" and the collapse to get to the Classic Period.
 
Okay so I'll try and answer your questions to the best of my abilities (and without spoilers).

Cool, and let me say that those were some very good responses.



It also means that the disease exchange will be a two way street since Europeans will have no immunity to Purple Kiss.

Truth be told, I hadn't thought of that in this scenario. I've kicked around some ideas of America-to-Europe death diseases as a kind of mirror of OTL, but in this situation it hadn't occurred to me. Very cool.


I'm going under the assumption that there is a butterfly net around North America since they aren't directly contributing to any of the going ons of Asia, Africa or Europe. Until contact happens don't expect any differences in the Old World.

Good deal, just wanted to check.

I don't really want to give to much away on this topic, I left it open because I'm unsure about whether there will be contact or not.

Not a problem. I tend to not look to far into the future in my own TLs, because I don't really want an 'end goal' because that's not exactly how the people of the TL see it. They kind of live with the rolling of the punches/passing of the years, so that's kind of how I write. I appreciate your candor.

Because of this contact between the Mississippian and the Sawasmoshupshe will be limited for most of the early Classic Period.


I can assure you that there will be at least one coastal society that will have a maritime (to some degree). The Mississippians may not be the people that eventually do this, but it will happen between now and 1492.

Interesting...


I mostly skipped out on describing them in this update because I'm doing a seperate update that details the Mississipian People and the Great Lakes people. The next update should answer all of your question and will be an in depth development of the two people's and the pastoralists of the Ohio River basin. This update was mostly about getting through the "Dark Age" and the collapse to get to the Classic Period.

Ah, excellent! I really like what you're doing here, hence the pestering. But don't let me spoil it.
 
Cool, and let me say that those were some very good responses.


Truth be told, I hadn't thought of that in this scenario. I've kicked around some ideas of America-to-Europe death diseases as a kind of mirror of OTL, but in this situation it hadn't occurred to me. Very cool.


Good deal, just wanted to check.


Not a problem. I tend to not look to far into the future in my own TLs, because I don't really want an 'end goal' because that's not exactly how the people of the TL see it. They kind of live with the rolling of the punches/passing of the years, so that's kind of how I write. I appreciate your candor.


Interesting...



Ah, excellent! I really like what you're doing here, hence the pestering. But don't let me spoil it.

glad you like and glad I answered your questions.
 
like it... I would like to see maps and such as well as more details about what the bronze age civilization looked like, especially culture religion, population distribution (where were their large cities located and such)
 
At the birth of Empire

--

I've deleted the last update to do some retooling, based on a converstion I had with Jester and on a couple books I picked up yesterday and today on the formation of civiliation in China, Mesopotamia and around the Indus.

***

Why did cites arise? It is fair question and it is one that both diverhistoric Archeologists and their Home Timeline counterparts asked and continue to ask. In the last section we examined the civilizations of the Copper People and the Adena and examined the development of certain aspect of their civilization. We saw the emergence of writing in 350 BCE, and we touched upon the creation of cities in the Ohio River Basin and the Western Great lakes region. But why did cities arise in some places but not others? The formation of cities and their linking together as one civilization in the Ohio River Basin was relatively rapid, considering the social and technological changes involved. Why did urbanization and writing appear so quickly in the Hocking River Valley leading to the rise of the city of Shkupkujigwe or in the Paint Creek Valley? The question of what led to this all-important transformation has challenged diverhistoric scholars for decades. A number of theories have been advanced to account for the rise of cities, most of which rely on the Ohio River Basin and Mesopotamia for their main sources of evidence. The rise of cities is not simply the growth of large collections of people; rather it involves communities that are more diverse than their predecessors and more interdependent. Specialization in the production of various crops and other goods and complex exchange networks are typical of urban societies. Cities are also interdependent with their hinterlands of town and villages. One theory to explain the emergence of cities in the Ohio River Basin, Mesopotamia, China, and along the Indus River was that social reorganization was required by large-scale irrigation networks that were needed to support a significant population [1]. Another theory was based on the processes set in motion by an increasing population density. Arable land would become overpopulated and conflict would then develop between the settled peoples and their neighbors. One group would be conquered forming the lower class for conquering group who would assume the role of the elite [2]. A third more ideology based theory is postulated that a city will not develop without an ideology that explains and justifies a hierarchical administrative organization and socio-political inequality and that is such an ideology does not exist, or emerges the formation of a state becomes difficult, or even outright impossible [3].

In the western Great Lakes region we see civilization evolve as along the lines of a Secondary state; though we do not see this evolution maintain a uniform progression. The uneven distribution of natural resources, arable land, and large variations in population meant that different areas in the region progressed at different rate, with some areas not progressing farther than horticultural subsistence. Relying heavily on Hopniss and the native copper in the region the Copper civilization flourished in the Keweenaw Peninsula. One of the largest sites and most important archeological sites was a city that rested not far from the Ontonagon River. In the Home Timeline a small township known as Rockland would rest not far from the large Copper culture city. Rockland would hold the distinction of becoming one of the most important cities in Upper Michigan for diverhistoric archeologists.

***

It is the year 200 Before the Common Era and the Middle Formative is in full swing; the distinction between the Middle and Late Formative, like the distinction between the Early and middle is drawn by the advent of a near revolutionary technology. At the Early –Middle transition it is the change from horticulture to permaculture and the dawn of the Chalcolithic period. For the Middle-Late boundary diverhistoric archeologists use the dawn of the Bronze Age to mark the distinction. In our world metallurgy never advanced into what we would call the Bronze Age in North America. In the Western hemisphere the Andean cultures would reach the closest to the European and Chinese Bronze Age. With a distinct lack of Stannum [4] and a lack in sedentary lifestyle the North American cultures never developed bronze. In the diverhistoric world of “From Blight we Rise” the Adena have developed a sedentary lifestyle as have the Copper Culture; centuries of trade between the two led to the advent of Metallurgy in North America. The first evidence of this early metallurgy being knives and jewelry that was distinct from the old hammered tools and jewelry of the Early Formative. This early copper smelting did not occur in the Ohio River Basin itself and originated in with the Copper Culture of Upper Michigan and Wisconsin. More complex metallurgy within the Aden and the Copper would first be noted by the presence of what we know as Hepatizon [5]. Examples of Hepatizon jewelry in the Ohio River Basin would first start to appear around the same time as the advent of writing, or roughly around 350 BCE. Examples of Hepatizon jewelry in the Ohio River Basin are predominantly found in the burial mounds of city-state and chiefdom elite. Though it was noted that Hepatizon was stronger than Copper on its own; Hepatizon was far too expensive to produce to be a practical replacement for Copper tools. We see many attempts try and create a more affordable Bronze that could be used in tools, but it would take another 300 years after the advent of Hepatizon jewelry for the Eastern North American Bronze Age to occur.

***

Welcome to Rockland Michigan, It is 50 years Before the Common Era and as the Roman Senate demands that Julius Caesar lay down his command diverhistoric archeologists see the first widespread use of Arsenical Bronze in North America in the city that will never be known as Rockland. In a matter of decades Bronze had almost supplanted copper and stone tools. Like Mesopotamia, metal ores had to be imported to the Ohio River Basin, but the production of metal implements became quite important in the economies of the Ohio River Basin cities. The bronze of the Adena and the Copper culture was drastically different from that of the Europe during its own Bronze Age and bares more similarities to the early Bronze Age in the Caucasus. With the closest continental supply of tin being in northern Mexico bronze smelting in the Ohio River Basin and the Great Lakes Basin was based on the co-smelting of oxid malachite and arsenopyrite together; this form of smelting led to the creation of Arsenical Bronze [6].
Sometimes known as the First Dynastic Era the Late Formative saw the unification of the bulk of the Adena civilization into a single state. The mighty city-state of Shkupkujigwe had set up colonies along the shore of Lake Erie and had almost total control of the Hocking River Valley by roughly 23 BCE. The oligarchic city-state was about to behold a great upheaval that would result in the dethroning of the oligarchy and laid the foundation of the first empire of the Ohio River Basin. The origin of the first Kno’Ogama [7] of the Oyo Empire is one that has been mythologized by eons of retelling and imperial propaganda. Some myths say he started out as an officer who was a brilliant military man and after the council saw how the people adored him they sought to kill him, but the troops sent to arrest him turned against them and took to him their palace and slaughtered them declaring himself Ngot'nte'te'yumnos [8]. Another describes him as the leader of the protective guard of the first families who could not stand by as they fed off of the people and slaughtered them. Each different version ends with him taking power from the first families and leading going on to conquer the bulk of the Ohio River Basin during his lifetime. Modern diverhistoric archeologist have come to argue that the conquest of the Ohio River Basin could not be attributed to the Ngot'nte'te'yumnos alone as it is all but impossible for him to have lived the full 50 years it took to conquer the rest of the basin considering that he was already in his thirties. It is likely that the successors of Ngot'nte'te'yumnos adopted the same title/name and continued to use it until a point when they began to mythologize themselves further and created the God-King image that we see after the adoption of the title Kno’Ogama. Shkupkujigwe had gone from being one of the most influential city states to the center of the Oyo Empire.

--

[1]: In OTL this theory was first proposed by Karl Wittfogel in his book Oriental Despotism (1957). His theory essentially proposed that the construction, maintenance, and allocation of irrigation works would require a managerial elite. The elite would form the core of the complex society. The extreme importance of the role of irrigation in social development has been disputed by other writers. Not all of the features that Wittfogel linked are necessarily found together, and they also may appear without large-scale irrigation. The static nature of his model has also been criticized.

[2]: Proposed by Robert Carneiro, this is his circumscription theory. Primary state development occurred in the six original states of the Nile Valley, Peru, Mesoamerican, Yellow River Valley China, Indus River Valley, and Mesopotamia. Secondary state development occurred in states that developed from contact with already existing states. For Diverhistoric scholars this actually seems to work pretty well with what happened in Eastern North America. Of course like Wittfogel’s theory this runs into problems because it doesn’t fit everywhere. It runs into considerable problems when we look at Polynesia and East Africa.

[3]: The Complex Interaction Model by Henri J. M. Claessen some would say that this is more a side-effect of the emergence of a city.

[4]: Tin

[5]: Hepatizon is also known as Black Corinthian Bronze. A type of dark purple colored Bronze, it was a Copper/Silver alloy that is similar to Japanese Shakudō. With silver levels that sometimes reached up to 8% it was a very pricy item in ancient Greece. In the Ohio Valley it is just as widely coveted and probably more expensive. Blacksmiths are one of the most impressive positions in Adena culture thanks to their ability to forage the material.

[6]: There are four known ways to create Arsenical Bronze one is directly adding arsenic-bearing metals or ores to molten copper, while this works there is no evidence that this ever happened in ancient times. It is unlikely that this would have happened in the Great Lakes Basin because we don’t see the realgar needed for this process outside of Utah, Washington, and Yellowstone. The process used in the Caucasus and the Middle East relied on the reduction of antimony-bearing copper arsenates, or fahlore, to produce an alloy high in arsenic and antimony. A third method is the reduction of roasted copper sulfarsenides such as tennantite and enargite. There is archeological evidence for this method, but it produced toxic fumes of arsenous oxide and the loss of much of the arsenic present in the ores making it both less efficient and more deadly. The safest route to go is the co-smelting of oxidic and sulphidic ores together. Both malachite and is and oxidic ore and arsenopyrite is a sulphidic ore; they are both found in Michigan. Malachite is often found with copper making it perfect for the co-smelting process that birthed the North American Bronze Age. Because this process is a reaction of the different minerals together there is little in the way of dangerous fumes given off during the process making it safer and a longer lived blacksmith can pass it on to his children or train other smiths for a longer period of time.

[7]: Eagle King, this title would be adopted by later Emperors, but not the first.

[8]: First Father

***

Comments? Questions? Thoughts? Criticism
 
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Still enjoying it. I definitely like the textbook blending OTL and ATL civilisations together. Thanks for the references, too.


The only trouble is, these cultures we're passing through sound so interesting, I'd like to hear a lot more about them! Guess I'll have to suffer.
 
Still enjoying it. I definitely like the textbook blending OTL and ATL civilisations together. Thanks for the references, too.


The only trouble is, these cultures we're passing through sound so interesting, I'd like to hear a lot more about them! Guess I'll have to suffer.

Well there have really only been three civilizations, the Adena, the Copper, and now the Oyo Empire. You won't have to suffer for long though.
 
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