European influence on cuisine of Surviving Aztec/Maya/Inca Empires

[GameBawesome]

In a hypothetical scenerio, where Cortez expedition failed SO horribly, that causes a butterfly effect, in which the Aztecs (although, internally collapsing) and the Maya tribes and the Inca Empire survive Spanish conquest, and would later make-contact with the other Europeans, like the Portuguese, English, French, and Dutch.

Now, we’re talking about on aspect of European Influence: Cuisine.

How would European influence and trade influence, such as meats such as Pork, Beef, and Chicken, and things like honey, spices, and sugar, the cuisines, like food and drinks, of the Aztecs, Maya, and Inca?

 

[JSilvy]

We’ve already seen some of what could happen with the rise of Mexican food. Flour tortillas becoming common instead of just corn is an example, as well ad the introduction of rice. A common trend I believe is that existing meat dishes, some of which were made with human meat from sacrifices, were now made with livestock meats.

 

[Arkenfolm]

How Christian do they get? For the Aztecs and especially the divided Maya, I could imagine they'll eventually convert to Christianity and use European assistance to destroy any opposition. The sort of Christianity there will look like the Philippines I'd imagine or an even stronger Mexican folk Catholicism. The Inca are less likely to convert since they could smash the conquistadors and remain isolationist for many decades to come, but I imagine that disease will cause enough social disruption that European powers can support the claimant they want as Sapa Inca. Christianity will impact their diet, i.e. fish on fridays.

I think the Aztecs and Maya will look similar to regional Mexican cuisine with lots of Spanish influence. We'd likely see a native take on some European dish become a symbol of native culture given the courts would be so impacted by Europeans hanging around there. I think beef would be big in the Aztec Empire thanks to the amount of good grazing land, and likely similar in the Inca Empire.

 

[Silver01]

How Christian do they get? For the Aztecs and especially the divided Maya, I could imagine they'll eventually convert to Christianity and use European assistance to destroy any opposition. The sort of Christianity there will look like the Philippines I'd imagine or an even stronger Mexican folk Catholicism. The Inca are less likely to convert since they could smash the conquistadors and remain isolationist for many decades to come, but I imagine that disease will cause enough social disruption that European powers can support the claimant they want as Sapa Inca. Christianity will impact their diet, i.e. fish on fridays.

disagree here
the azctes would be the one who would try to isolate themselvs , the azctec religion was brutal , with ritual canibalisim and chirstianity , jesus doesnt not ask for human sacrifice nor canibalisim the religion would become widly popular for lower classes and the aztec vassals , the elite who base their power on the tradintional religion would out law it and double down , like japan .
it depends who would win bettween the chirstians and the powerfull priest and traditional class, the inca religion while dark on many aspect was not as totalitarian and had less power than the aztec one the sapa inca himself was much to gain from converting and adopting european value of primogeniture, since inca religion dictated that all the belogings of the sapa inca still in death belonged to him and the priest , with his convertion he could take the wealth and lands of the old sapa incas.

 

[Revachah]

Wheat berries people could plant were restricted to Spain under a monopoly.

A free african man Juan Garrido was said to have found 3 berries in a bag of rice and was the first individual to raise it to a cultivatable crop. I wonder how much longer it would take for it to spread given the circumstances?

 

[Arkenfolm]

the azctes would be the one who would try to isolate themselvs , the azctec religion was brutal , with ritual canibalisim and chirstianity , jesus doesnt not ask for human sacrifice nor canibalisim the religion would become widly popular for lower classes and the aztec vassals , the elite who base their power on the tradintional religion would out law it and double down , like japan .

OTL they didn't isolate themselves to disastrous impact. They invited in the Spanish and were destroyed as a result. If they still invite in the Spanish but instead the Spanish are destroyed, it's likely the Aztecs will deal with some instability. The Aztecs are too close to the Spanish Caribbean and Europe in general for their own good, and Europe would want a lot of goods from their empire, meaning they'd be semi-colonised, a Thailand at best. That's why I think you'd find a lot of Spanish influence since they'd be trading with the Aztecs and Mesoamerica. And probably African too, since to make up for the loss of population from disease they'd probably buy African slaves. The Aztecs have so many enemies from internal groups to the Purepecha (who Spain will eventually contact) that they'll eventually need to make concessions if they want to survive.

I think it would be easy to replace the ritual cannibalism in Mesoamerica given the Eucharist can easily be interpreted as ritual cannibalism (as the pagan Romans derided it as). Considering how wheat is used for the host in Christianity, I wonder if the Aztecs would continue to use corn for the sacrament or if they'd use wheat like Europeans, but the association of wheat with the host means there are few/no foods involving wheat.

One additional thing is Dutch influence, given how global and widespread the Dutch spread themselves in the early 17th century, and this includes South America. I think they'd be an important influence on these native states and likely influence them in terms of cuisine.

Another thing I'm certain of is that every one of these states would take up distilling under European influence so we'd still have tequila like OTL. Likely their main liquor would be a sort of rum or arrack since they'd plant sugarcane for the sake of European trade.

 

[Silver01]

OTL they didn't isolate themselves to disastrous impact. They invited in the Spanish and were destroyed as a result. If they still invite in the Spanish but instead the Spanish are destroyed, it's likely the Aztecs will deal with some instability. The Aztecs are too close to the Spanish Caribbean and Europe in general for their own good, and Europe would want a lot of goods from their empire, meaning they'd be semi-colonised, a Thailand at best. That's why I think you'd find a lot of Spanish influence since they'd be trading with the Aztecs and Mesoamerica. And probably African too, since to make up for the loss of population from disease they'd probably buy African slaves. The Aztecs have so many enemies from internal groups to the Purepecha (who Spain will eventually contact) that they'll eventually need to make concessions if they want to survive.

I think it would be easy to replace the ritual cannibalism in Mesoamerica given the Eucharist can easily be interpreted as ritual cannibalism (as the pagan Romans derided it as). Considering how wheat is used for the host in Christianity, I wonder if the Aztecs would continue to use corn for the sacrament or if they'd use wheat like Europeans, but the association of wheat with the host means there are few/no foods involving wheat.

One additional thing is Dutch influence, given how global and widespread the Dutch spread themselves in the early 17th century, and this includes South America. I think they'd be an important influence on these native states and likely influence them in terms of cuisine.

Another thing I'm certain of is that every one of these states would take up distilling under European influence so we'd still have tequila like OTL. Likely their main liquor would be a sort of rum or arrack since they'd plant sugarcane for the sake of European trade.

If the aztecs are smart and adopt european warfare they could crush the opposition and double down on human sacrifice and the power of the elite .
Even with Spanish help they migth arrive to late to help the christian revolt or since the chirstians are seen as heretics by them (most likely they are since I highly doubt they would have 100% Catholic views )
The Spanish migth not support them
The Spanish migth try to invade but then again if the aztecs already adapted to european technology then it's a no no also depends when if the said revolt occurs in the 17the century the later the better Spain doesn't have a free hand and the balance of power would make it so that the Dutch french or English support the aztecs noblity.

Due to many reasons so yeah the possibility of them cracking the chirstian revolts is high and make the religión ilegal

And I don't believe it can be easily replaced since part of the noblity and especially the priest where really powerful due to the native religions sure you can argue that they could become clergyman but they would be loosing power
If aztecs religion is going to be replaced it would be after a successful and most likely very bloody revolt .

 

[JSilvy]

The Inca are less likely to convert since they could smash the conquistadors and remain isolationist for many decades to come, but I imagine that disease will cause enough social disruption that European powers can support the claimant they want as Sapa Inca.

Disease wouldn't necessarily be such a huge factor. Disease had already largely cut down the population of the Incas before the arrival of Pizarro, and even then the Incas had a fighting chance against him. Keep in mind also that the Inca population at its height had been around 12 million, so with an 80-90% death rate they would still have a remaining population of 1.2-2.4 million.

 

[twovultures]

disagree here
the azctes would be the one who would try to isolate themselvs , the azctec religion was brutal , with ritual canibalisim and chirstianity , jesus doesnt not ask for human sacrifice nor canibalisim the religion would become widly popular for lower classes and the aztec vassals , the elite who base their power on the tradintional religion would out law it and double down , like japan .

To be clear, during the period of the conquest of Mexico the Spanish inquisition tortured people on suspicion that they might be Muslim or Jewish, and burned people alive in the name of God. So let's not get on our high horse in regards to differences of religion at this time.

The Elite vs. Commoner split regarding Christianity is an interesting idea. It's true that in response to the inevitable pandemics, the traditional Aztec religion will be very shaken, leaving people who are not already invested in the existing politico-religious system to convert. My one quibble is-how does Christianity spread to the commoners? I don't think Aztec nobility are going to be allowing random Europeans to march over their land preaching to the masses, especially once they realize that the appearance of Europeans tends to precede new pandemics. The Franciscans may try this, but they would baptize anyone who asked regardless of if they understood what Christianity was (if you believe las Casas), which would probably not do much to spread the new religion-we'd just see Jesus and Mary statues put up in existing religious areas. The Jesuits focused on converting elites, but as you pointed out, these are somewhat invested in the existing system. IIRC the merchant class was pretty active and powerful within the Aztec Empire, and they might have the most contact with the foreigners, so we could see a parallel to Islam in Africa and Asia, where traders convert and then spread the new religion.

 

[twovultures]

Oh shoot, I totally forgot about OP's question. Okay, let's see.

In independent polities, sugar is not going to be mass produced as it would be in a colony. The Native Americans are not going to try to rely on imports of food from Europe even if they do adopt European cuisine, so they're not going to destroy all their food-producing land; the manpower is going to be limited by pandemics/wars resisting colonization/wars due to political instability; and even in cases where the elites are exploiting the labor of commoners, the elites don't have the military advantages of the Spanish and are bound in a web of feudal obligation which means that unlike the Spanish they won't want to work their people to death in the cane fields. As such, sugar is rare. Sugarcane will only be grown in a few places in quantities large enough to justify building a sugar mill, so it will be rare treat, perhaps used for medicinal purposes. Large quantities of sugar could probably be purchased from the Spanish Antilles.

I can see spices from tropical Asia becoming very commonly grown, first as a trade item, but then being introduced to food. So spices like cinnamon could become popular in Mesoamerica as it is IOTL.

The Mayans actually had apiculture even if their bees were not as wildly productive as European honeybees. There is a learning curve, but I think that beekeeping could become pretty widespread, and honey might be a more common sweetener than sugar.

Livestock is huge. IIRC the Mesoamericans were a little protein starved at times, and there was a lot of effort to get hunted wild animals into urban centers and even to raise dogs as livestock. Pigs are extremely destructive animals, but the temptation of having a half ton of meat on the hoof that can be fed on garbage might be too much to resist. Mesoamericans already have turkeys, I don't know if they'd prefer chickens are not. Beef would be absolutely revolutionary, being able to maintain such tight control over such large animals that can turn dry savanna grass into usable calories (not to mention clothing and other items) will be very handy. Probably not a lot of dairy farming going on though, lactose tolerance isn't really a thing among Native Americans at this time.

 

[Silver01]

To be clear, during the period of the conquest of Mexico the Spanish inquisition tortured people on suspicion that they might be Muslim or Jewish, and burned people alive in the name of God. So let's not get on our high horse in regards to differences of religion at this time.

The Elite vs. Commoner split regarding Christianity is an interesting idea. It's true that in response to the inevitable pandemics, the traditional Aztec religion will be very shaken, leaving people who are not already invested in the existing politico-religious system to convert. My one quibble is-how does Christianity spread to the commoners? I don't think Aztec nobility are going to be allowing random Europeans to march over their land preaching to the masses, especially once they realize that the appearance of Europeans tends to precede new pandemics. The Franciscans may try this, but they would baptize anyone who asked regardless of if they understood what Christianity was (if you believe las Casas), which would probably not do much to spread the new religion-we'd just see Jesus and Mary statues put up in existing religious areas. The Jesuits focused on converting elites, but as you pointed out, these are somewhat invested in the existing system. IIRC the merchant class was pretty active and powerful within the Aztec Empire, and they might have the most contact with the foreigners, so we could see a parallel to Islam in Africa and Asia, where traders convert and then spread the new religion.

because in the early years the trade of europeans good and weapons missonaries can come you just need a couple locals to convert and they can start proclaiming the religon the areas with more trade and contact ie the coast would be the most chirstian while futher inland is not the vassals would be the most to convert as they where the worst treated by the system and chirstianity actually gives them a soul and the chance to go to paradaise instead of becoming a sacrifice to the gods and the priests.

 

[twovultures]

because in the early years the trade of europeans good and weapons missonaries can come you just need a couple locals to convert and they can start proclaiming the religon the areas with more trade and contact ie the coast would be the most chirstian while futher inland is not the vassals would be the most to convert as they where the worst treated by the system and chirstianity actually gives them a soul and the chance to go to paradaise instead of becoming a sacrifice to the gods and the priests.

I think you might benefit from reading this article.

 

[xsampa]

Oh shoot, I totally forgot about OP's question. Okay, let's see.

In independent polities, sugar is not going to be mass produced as it would be in a colony. The Native Americans are not going to try to rely on imports of food from Europe even if they do adopt European cuisine, so they're not going to destroy all their food-producing land; the manpower is going to be limited by pandemics/wars resisting colonization/wars due to political instability; and even in cases where the elites are exploiting the labor of commoners, the elites don't have the military advantages of the Spanish and are bound in a web of feudal obligation which means that unlike the Spanish they won't want to work their people to death in the cane fields. As such, sugar is rare. Sugarcane will only be grown in a few places in quantities large enough to justify building a sugar mill, so it will be rare treat, perhaps used for medicinal purposes. Large quantities of sugar could probably be purchased from the Spanish Antilles.

I can see spices from tropical Asia becoming very commonly grown, first as a trade item, but then being introduced to food. So spices like cinnamon could become popular in Mesoamerica as it is IOTL.

The Mayans actually had apiculture even if their bees were not as wildly productive as European honeybees. There is a learning curve, but I think that beekeeping could become pretty widespread, and honey might be a more common sweetener than sugar.

Livestock is huge. IIRC the Mesoamericans were a little protein starved at times, and there was a lot of effort to get hunted wild animals into urban centers and even to raise dogs as livestock. Pigs are extremely destructive animals, but the temptation of having a half ton of meat on the hoof that can be fed on garbage might be too much to resist. Mesoamericans already have turkeys, I don't know if they'd prefer chickens are not. Beef would be absolutely revolutionary, being able to maintain such tight control over such large animals that can turn dry savanna grass into usable calories (not to mention clothing and other items) will be very handy. Probably not a lot of dairy farming going on though, lactose tolerance isn't really a thing among Native Americans at this time.

Could lentils and soybeans become protein sources?

 

[Silver01]

I think you might benefit from reading this article.

eh the comparision with corithians is odd ( if we read it context)
Pual is dimissing a group of Corinth saying that there is no resurrection from the dead for Christians. He has shown that everything he has taught from the gospel becomes pointless if Christ was not raised and if those who belong to Him will not also be raised. ( he is givin them hope ) not like the aztec poetry here.

The last few verses have focused on Paul's motivation for continuing in his hard and dangerous life of preaching the gospel against so much opposition. (again hope)
but ignoring that
this still doesnt contradict my point the Aztecs held that this sort of life would not lead to ‘happiness’, except by luck. jesus says one can atain salvation trougth him and (if they become catholic by the church not luck)

point 3 espeically "rootedness in the community, by playing a social role. These social expectations connect us to each other and enabled the community to function. " sure its amazing if you are the priest or a warrior and sure such roles were connected to rites , but if your social role is a vassal from the aztecs then your role is that of subservaint
well then your kin that are to be sacrificed server the role to stabilize both the political and cosmic systems by your or your love one death .

human sacrifice was a thing in most pre colombian but what made the aztec stand out was the level and hierarchy , heck unlike others like the inca aztec sacrifices where not voluntary nor did no one else got a system of vassals and tribute for that or even their war to be like that not at such a large scale.

 

[Silver01]

any way the op question inca food would probably look like a more primitive peruvian food acording to myths certian food we had where because of the hard times under the colonial period like lomo saltado , of course it would depend if the chinise migrations of the 19th century or something similar occurs to add the east asian to the south american
cuisine