Es Geloybte Aretz Continuation Thread

bumpier than that
May i ask what was bumpy?

Now normal questions do askaris not have same reputations they have in otl in this tl? Anything notable about them. When de-colonisation happens will germany have a ghurka style regiments of africa or no.

Also in regards to baden baden how much influence has the catholic church have? Do the nationalist of these nations appose the church influence? Also does catholic church try to convert orthodox belarussians, Ukrainians to Catholicism?

Lasty what is the relationship between germans of polish origin and Poland like? Any animosity?
 
Got couple of question How will the children of king of Poland be raised, as in do the family decide or the state. Will the polish state make sure to make them fullly polish etc, as the king is a german Habsburg, will the gov be personally involved with the next generation of royalty. Also does the polish state do marriages etc similar to pedro of brazil the gov chose his wife. Last who would they marry polish aristocracy is any is left? Or try some catholic royalty?

Second what is the southern british irish territory like? How on earth do these enclaves work?
 
Recent events seens timely to ask this question whats relationship between the nobility and the state. Also the relationship between noblility and general public/non nobel majority population?
 
I wish I had the tiome to address this in the detail it deserves. Unfortuntately, right now that is not in the cards. I have an essay due, another book contract, and need to work the hours to pay the bills. I will try to address the main points:
Now normal questions do askaris not have same reputations they have in otl in this tl? Anything notable about them. When de-colonisation happens will germany have a ghurka style regiments of africa or no.
The reputation of the askari is good, but not legendary. Since the regiments were Schutztruppe, not part of the regular army establishment, they did not see use in the ETO and eventually ended up the nucleus of the newly independent states' armies. Germany does not retain any colonial forces after decolonisation, but it does retain a generous volunteering programme. The original target had been Central European German speakers, but it gets used by people from the former colonies, too.
Also in regards to baden baden how much influence has the catholic church have? Do the nationalist of these nations appose the church influence? Also does catholic church try to convert orthodox belarussians, Ukrainians to Catholicism?
The Catholic church is hugely influential in Poland, and the protections of the Baden treaty were very necessary. Of course, forcible conversion is strictly illegal, but in the more fluid early years, a man who speaks Polish in public and goes to a Catholic church can be considered of Polish ethnicity with the social advantages that brings. things happen.
In the Polish-speaking, castholic heartlands, the church is pretty much The Authority. in the mixed and urbanised areas, less so, but it sure would like to be.

Lasty what is the relationship between germans of polish origin and Poland like? Any animosity?
Complex. Basically, Germans of Polish origins and poles in Germany are a difgicult political issue to start with. A number of people in Germany resent the existence of Poland because they are now considered foreiogners, but mostly, even people of polish extraction who speak and feel German feel warmly about Poland. the country has a very positive reputation that does not extend necessarily top indicvidual people. Many Germans are racist against actual Poles, but admire them in the abstract.

Got couple of question How will the children of king of Poland be raised, as in do the family decide or the state. Will the polish state make sure to make them fullly polish etc, as the king is a german Habsburg, will the gov be personally involved with the next generation of royalty. Also does the polish state do marriages etc similar to pedro of brazil the gov chose his wife. Last who would they marry polish aristocracy is any is left? Or try some catholic royalty?
The püolish royal family has decided to be more Polish than the Poles, so the children are raised in a way that preemps any demands the government could make. This is how European dynasties operate. But the Sejm expects the royals to be very patriotioc, and it will become an issue later in the century.
Marriages will be looked for both among the Polish nobility and the Catholic houses of Europe. Technically, the sejm gets a veto,. buit the choices are conservative and uncontroversial. The new king is a very fortunate choice, really.


Second what is the southern british irish territory like? How on earth do these enclaves work?

Feck. They don't. Does the word 'clusterfuck' ring a bell? It's basically the kind of crap you can only afford if your country can basically face the challenges of the world with two rabid weasels stuffed down its trousers. Anyone but Britain would be dragged down and bled out. Britain basically just goes "Oh, that? Ignore it. It's better than the alternative".

Recent events seens timely to ask this question whats relationship between the nobility and the state. Also the relationship between noblility and general public/non nobel majority population?
Fraught. Asshole vons are a self-renewing natural resource, and especially the lesser nobility can be clannish, arrogant, scheming, and deeply unattractive peopkle. Everybody remembers that one officer from the army days, that one mid-ranking civil servant, that one guy. They cling tovevery shred of their diminishing privileges and their domibnance posions the upper echelons of society. that is why modern Germany never develops a cohesive social elite. Again, a good that comes from bad, making the country more socially mobile ultimately. It just takes a long time top get there.
 
They cling tovevery shred of their diminishing privileges and their domibnance posions the upper echelons of society. that is why modern Germany never develops a cohesive social elite.
Apologied im dumb how does the aristocracy fighting tooth and nail to keep their privileges, stop a social elite? Aren't they not the social elite?

Second i remember when asking about how far german poles can reach you mentioned
chancellor, one chief of the general staff, one guards commander, and these positions are handed out in a closely guarded inner circle.
What is this inner circle? Nobility? Also won't the general population be annoyed?
 
Apologied im dumb how does the aristocracy fighting tooth and nail to keep their privileges, stop a social elite? Aren't they not the social elite?

Second i remember when asking about how far german poles can reach you mentioned

What is this inner circle? Nobility? Also won't the general population be annoyed?
Very. In short words, the nobility and established bourgeois families are good at keeping interlopers out of their circles, but they can't stop them becoming rich and influentiakl. as a result, the spheres don't mix to the same extent and you get a social elite that consists of different groups, with the nobility increasingly feeling on the losing side. By 1920, they can still divide most important positions as they want, but by 1960, that is over. Many resent that.
 
bourgeois families are good at keeping interlopers out of their circles, but they can't stop them becoming rich and influentiakl.
Whats the difference between bourgeois and interloping rich group aren't they the same, or is it old money vs new money.

Second so because multiple groups are fighting for the top no one can cement themselves as top.


Marriages will be looked for both among the Polish nobility
This is is a interesting thing. You mentioned eatern european nobles being effectively only being allowed back into their homes because germany said so. However wouldn't poland be the outlier here. Poland was defacto independent already due to them rebelling. Polish nationalists had already created a state, government, civil service, and military. Weren't polish nobles the biggest noble group of nobles in the russian empire. Most would have sided with russia as polish nobles loved their status and benefits. Also noted in this tl is how nationalist and annoying the polish gov came in regards to its state with germany. They gave the germans such a headache they couldn't get a german prince on the throne or tax extempt land. If germany couldn't get these its doubtful they could force poland to accept back its russian loving nobility.

My point is poland should not have a nobility or a small new nobility formed from the heroes of the war. First germany can't force them to accept them back the old nobility as the polish state already exists, Germany is far more limited here compared to baden baden states. Second poland has no need for them. What can they give or offer the polish state? Military officers? You already have that 1 polish top tier general actively banging the women of poland, you have a new officer class formed already who commanded during the war. Second no doubt polish military school is different its german or polish now not russian style, so new officers won't get along with them.

Civil service again already exist and is robust as hell. Its also left wing, as seen with socialists in it. Lastly class borugoise and working class have power. Both groups have achieved success in taking the rings of power. I don't see them even allowing the idea of russian serving nobility any room as they have all the power and card.

When Krakow rebelled against austria didn't austria literally just say peasent have at it and massacred the country side nobility. This plus socialism and nationalism should make it poison pill for poles to allow back the old nobility. As now they can get bits of their former ruler land.

So who would this polish nobility are the polish habsburg marrying?
 
Weird questions about Baden Baden nations but how do they teach/view/mythologies the russo german war/ and formation of their nations? Do they tell the truth and straight down the middle, 'poland rebelled germany helped them, and in the peace treaty we also were created'. Do they exegete 'Poland wasn't the only one rebelling we also wanted independence and did stuff to make it known and help the germans'. Lastly do they just make up some nationalist lie? 'We rebelled alongside Poland all the great people of (insert baden baden citizens) were fighting alongside and did massive work we won are independence on our own and the germans were greatful'. Like is there a disconnect between these nations intelligentsia who have a romanticised their nationality struggle, and overplay their people role in the struggle.

Next question in regards to the soldiers who germany recruited from prison camps containing russian empires soldiers, such as Balts, Ukrainians etc who went on to serve those ethnic legions fighting alongside germany. How are they viewed by their states? Opportunist, traitors, or more positive, heroes, nationalist forefathers etc. Or is it a more naunced view/controversial. The respective baden baden legions were simply prisoners of war who became traitors for a mixture of reasons, some did it for freedom, some hated the russians, some believed in a independent home land.
 
Weird questions about Baden Baden nations but how do they teach/view/mythologies the russo german war/ and formation of their nations? Do they tell the truth and straight down the middle, 'poland rebelled germany helped them, and in the peace treaty we also were created'. Do they exegete 'Poland wasn't the only one rebelling we also wanted independence and did stuff to make it known and help the germans'. Lastly do they just make up some nationalist lie? 'We rebelled alongside Poland all the great people of (insert baden baden citizens) were fighting alongside and did massive work we won are independence on our own and the germans were greatful'. Like is there a disconnect between these nations intelligentsia who have a romanticised their nationality struggle, and overplay their people role in the struggle.
My guess on the teaching part would be:
They start with any movements and even small scale organizations, important individuals who already wanted indepedence before the war - probably way overinflating their importance and forgetting that without the war they would not have amounted to much. Than continue with describing how come the war and the germans said organizations / people were ready and took the awaited opportunity to gain their independence. This is followed by their and maybe other national heroics during the war, national holidays on either or both on the days they first declared their independence or/and the day of the signing of the Baden-Baden treaties. There might be some grievances mentioned most probably in the form of "we should have also gotten this or that territory because of - insert very valid ethnic, historical, religious, strategic or otherwise made up reasons".
 
Got some questions in regards to Estonia, its mentioned, to be politically not doing well as its mentioned the german military building is across from its parliament and has the same amount of power as the government itself. Its also mentioned as being in economic crisis in perpetuity. However Estonia is mentioned as industralising rapidly, building a civil service, and social contract. It will be part of first batch of success of the Baden Baden nations. How the hell do they do that if they are politically weak, and constant economic crisis? Was it because they industrialised so well economic boom fixed their economy that they were relatively rolling in the money so to speak?

Second in regards to Estonia with it being artificially created in this tl, where does Estonia is actually Scandinavian stand in this tl? Surely in theory it should be stronger/ more popular in the tl Estonia as they were created by germany rather than creating themselves, so weaker national identity, also stronger Baltic german influence, and weak politically. Does Estonia prefer to be associated more with the nordic nations, and hate the baltic grouping, have they done anything weird and copy nordic stuff to make them more nordic?

On Sweden back on the first part of the TL the German emperor pretty much calls the Swedish demands for Osel and Dago, as stupid as hell. Can i ask why this demand by Sweden was completely dismissed out of hand? They were probably fourth most powerful member of the German alliance and probably had the third or second most important fleet. They fought Heavily in Finland. They have some old claim to the Islands, yet only got the small Russian or finnish islands in the Finnish gulf. Why is that, why did Sweden have no chance of getting the Estonian Archipelago? Second why did the emperor consider is so stupid to be asked for?

Last thing on Sweden what is their relationship like with Estonia? Surely with Estonia being having a weaker national identity and government, and economic crisis, Sweden should have a much easier time influencing them. After all if they can't get Finland, surely Estonia in their sphere would the second choice. Estonia had a 'relatively' a good time under swedish rule, has a swedish minority, and Estonia was considered integral part of the old empire. So Sweden would have a massive presence in Estonia. Hell maybe try and get a union of something with them.
 
Got some questions in regards to Estonia, its mentioned, to be politically not doing well as its mentioned the german military building is across from its parliament and has the same amount of power as the government itself. Its also mentioned as being in economic crisis in perpetuity. However Estonia is mentioned as industralising rapidly, building a civil service, and social contract. It will be part of first batch of success of the Baden Baden nations. How the hell do they do that if they are politically weak, and constant economic crisis? Was it because they industrialised so well economic boom fixed their economy that they were relatively rolling in the money so to speak?
Need to be brief: Time difference. Estonia in the 1910s-1930s was a bad place. German authorities figured they could restart the 'good old days', their strong military and naval presence was a constant irritant in the local culture wars, and the country was poor. A lot of Estonians went abroad to work. Things improved slowly. In the years leading up to the second war, but especially in its aftermatgh, urbanisation and industrialisation as part of Sweden's and Finland's 'long workbench' improved things. The war broke up old structures and creaqted greater mobility. Estonian identity became more unitary, and the Germans stopped meddling so badly. That is when Estonia turns into a success story.
Second in regards to Estonia with it being artificially created in this tl, where does Estonia is actually Scandinavian stand in this tl? Surely in theory it should be stronger/ more popular in the tl Estonia as they were created by germany rather than creating themselves, so weaker national identity, also stronger Baltic german influence, and weak politically. Does Estonia prefer to be associated more with the nordic nations, and hate the baltic grouping, have they done anything weird and copy nordic stuff to make them more nordic?
Estonia enjoys a special relationship with Finland, and as Finland developed its brand of national welfare state and its industry took off, Estonia followed suit. So there is an element of that, but there is alsop less of a unitary Nordic identity (Sweden and Norway feel like very different countries)
On Sweden back on the first part of the TL the German emperor pretty much calls the Swedish demands for Osel and Dago, as stupid as hell. Can i ask why this demand by Sweden was completely dismissed out of hand? They were probably fourth most powerful member of the German alliance and probably had the third or second most important fleet. They fought Heavily in Finland. They have some old claim to the Islands, yet only got the small Russian or finnish islands in the Finnish gulf. Why is that, why did Sweden have no chance of getting the Estonian Archipelago? Second why did the emperor consider is so stupid to be asked for?
Wilhelm believes in ethnic nationalism. There are no Swedes on Ösel and Dagö. And since he needs the place to be his new naval base, he wants it in the hands of a compliant state. Sweden is too stronmg for that kind of relationship.
Basically, he was thinking A they would be grabbing something they can't comfortably hold on to and B he wouldn't allow it anyway.
Last thing on Sweden what is their relationship like with Estonia? Surely with Estonia being having a weaker national identity and government, and economic crisis, Sweden should have a much easier time influencing them. After all if they can't get Finland, surely Estonia in their sphere would the second choice. Estonia had a 'relatively' a good time under swedish rule, has a swedish minority, and Estonia was considered integral part of the old empire. So Sweden would have a massive presence in Estonia. Hell maybe try and get a union of something with them.
Complicated. Sweden doers see itself as a tutelary power for the Baltics and Finland. Neither of those are fully happy with that. But Estonia is also seen by the Germans as their special charge due to histpry. It's not a happy constellation, though far from a flashpoint for actual violence. Just - irritant.
 
Will there be a Fifth Column (an OTL term itself) within the German Atomic Program ?
Not in the way there was in the Manhattan Program. The stakes are high, the battle lines clear, and most people working on the programme are radically opposed to Russia. Some leading lights were disappointed by the timidity with which the weapon was used.

Of courtse thewre will be leaks. There always are. And Austria-Hungary is actually in the loop to an extent. But nobody is sending out the blueprints to foreign capitals.
 
Not in the way there was in the Manhattan Program. The stakes are high, the battle lines clear, and most people working on the programme are radically opposed to Russia. Some leading lights were disappointed by the timidity with which the weapon was used.

Of courtse thewre will be leaks. There always are. And Austria-Hungary is actually in the loop to an extent. But nobody is sending out the blueprints to foreign capitals.

It make sense, Russia in this timeline have a ideology with little reach outsider Russia, maybe their pan-Slavism speak to a few Czechs, Bulgarians and Serbs. But it’s nothing compared to OTL ideological powerhouse which was USSR.

Of course, it do raise the question do Germany have a defining ideology, they can use to unite their alliance and sell abroad?
 
Got a question. In regards to second russo german war peace, with the baden baden nations picking any of the nation's. What should they ask for? What do you think they will ask for? Lastly what should they not ask for/ would be bad long term.
 
Got a question. In regards to second russo german war peace, with the baden baden nations picking any of the nation's. What should they ask for? What do you think they will ask for? Lastly what should they not ask for/ would be bad long term.
Well, briefly, what they should ask for is a liberal order that integrates defeated Russia as an equal. Obviously they won't. Nobody understands how these things work.

They will ask for territorial cessions, reparations, and military limitations, and they will get them. The wiser ones will limit their land gains to areas they can integrate or easily control.

What they shjould not do is grab large territories. The experience of the first war dictates that you can assimilate a conquered population, make a Staatsvolk. But what was possible in 1908 is not going to fly in 1948. The Germans see no issue, these are, to them, primitive peoples, but there is a sense of national belonging and ethnic identity in Integralist Russia that did not exist in the pre-1905 Empire. It will not end well.

"It is a bit surprising that we keep having so much trouble in the Don region."
"It is, truly. I feel reminded of the problems we have in Elsaß-Lothringen. I did not think they had it in them."
"So how did you solve that?"
"We didn't. It sucks all the way."
 
They will ask for territorial cessions
will western Ukraine ask for all the otl Ukraine?

Also will any territorial demands of the baden baden nations conflict with another baden baden nation? Likely Sweden Finland, Baltics with each other, and Lithuania and Poland.

Also the question was meant for everyone i worded badly but i just want to generally know what people here think what the baden baden nations will ask for as you lot are all smart, and i enjoy seeing you lot awesome answers.
 
I don't think Sweden will be claiming any territory in the second war, anything it might want to claim surely already is a Baden-Baden state in and of itself, and what little beyond they might've wanted is inaccessible at best and otherwise might then also be claimed by those same states.
 
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