Best Confederate Strategy on June 1863?

Which was the better Confederate Strategy to execute?

  • Lee's Invasion of Pennsylvania (OTL option)

    Votes: 13 54.2%
  • Onto Nashville! (Longstreet's proposal)

    Votes: 5 20.8%
  • Pickett to Mississippi (Seddon's proposal)

    Votes: 3 12.5%
  • Others

    Votes: 3 12.5%

  • Total voters
    24
In the summer of 1863, the CSA was in a rather sticky situation. The stunning victory at Chancellorsville had been won with a heavy price of men and officers paid, including Lt. Gen. "Stonewall" Jackson. In the Western Theater, Vicksburg with its 30,000 man-strong garrison was besieged by Grant's Army of the Tennessee while Rosecrans was preparing for his invasion of Middle Tennessee.

Within Richmond a debate raged regarding the Confederacy's next step. A number of differing plans by differing actors rose up:

1.Lee's Invasion of Pennsylvania: Though Lee's more distant goals might not have been clear, we have a definitive idea of Lee's immediate objectives. By going north any Federal plan for a summer campaign in Virginia would be broken up. The movement through the Shenandoah Valley would allow for the destruction of Union garrisons occupying the lower end of the valley and force the Army of the Potomac to leave its camps around Fredericksburg and out of Virginia.

Secondly, an invasion of Pennsylvania might dispirit Northerners, and a decisive victory could compel other nations to recognize the Confederacy. At this point in time, the strength of the Army of the Potomac was at a low, with 2-year and 9-month enlistments expiring in the summer. If Lee wanted an opportunity to inflict a severe blow to his adversary, this was the opportunity. Lee also hoped that the threat to large Northern cities would compel the Federals to abandon the siege at Vicksburg or disease outbreaks in Mississippi force Grant to abandon the siege.

Finally, after 2 straight years of war Virginia needed a respite from war. An invasion of Pennsylvania allows for the people of Virginia to harvest their crops free from interruption by military operations, and the rich farms and towns of Pennsylvania offered food, forage, and supplies for the Army of Northern Virginia.

The Western Concentration Bloc has other ideas however:

2. Onto Nashville!: Contrary to popular belief, Longstreet was opposed to going to Mississippi because he believed he would be subordinated to Pemberton as he (and Lee) thought Pemberton was an ineffective field commander (which is odd considering that Longstreet outranked Pemberton). Instead, Longstreet suggested that the bulk of his corps along with Joe Johnston's OTL Army of Relief be sent to Bragg along under the overall command of Johnston to crush Rosecrans and reclaim Nashville. The idea was that a movement to Nashville would compel the Federals to abandon or weaken the siege at Vicksburg, a plan somewhat similar to Lee's rationale for an invasion of Pennsylvania.

The plan seems pretty good on paper. The reinforced Army of Tennessee would attain a numerical superiority in both infantry and cavalry over the Army of the Cumberland. However, the key issue here would be logistics. Historian Thomas Connelly observed that "Bragg's own transportation system had been on the verge of collapse since early 1863." IOTL after Chickamauga Longstreet complained to Bragg that his staff officers had not been provided with the means of supplying his troops. Unless the army's wagon train could be greatly expanded then the Army of Tennessee could not venture more than a few miles away from a secure rail-head. A logistical build up that would take more than a month is needed before the Army of Tennessee+ is ready to strike a blow.

In addition, the detachment of Longstreet leaves Lee open to another Chancellorsville/Wilderness, now putting both Richmond and Vicksburg in peril.

3.Pickett to Vicksburg: Secretary of War James Seddon was in the mind of reinforcing Vicksburg and Vicksburg alone. He apparently wanted to send Pickett's division in particular for Mississippi, possibly allowing for Lee to proceed with his invasion of Pennsylvania. Will the outcome change much? Not really, if Lee could not win with Pickett's division I can't see why he would win without Pickett. Pickett's division in the meanwhile is being sent on a wild goose-chase, for Johnston was not advancing against Sherman's entrenched Army of Observation.

Which of these options would you choose? Personally, I would say that the Invasion of Pennsylvania was the best solution of the three. While the Army of Northern Virginia was badly bloodied at Gettysburg, the Invasion of Pennsylvania was not a failure. More than 45 miles of quartermaster and subsistence trains filled with impressed stores escaped Pennsylvania and Maryland along with 20,000 horses and mules seized and large herds of livestock. Throughout the rest of the summer Lee's men had enough meat, flour and fodder. All of which were unavailable in Virginia. If you have any other strategies, feel free to write them in 'Others.'
 
Which of these options would you choose? Personally, I would say that the Invasion of Pennsylvania was the best solution of the three. While the Army of Northern Virginia was badly bloodied at Gettysburg, the Invasion of Pennsylvania was not a failure. More than 45 miles of quartermaster and subsistence trains filled with impressed stores escaped Pennsylvania and Maryland along with 20,000 horses and mules seized and large herds of livestock. Throughout the rest of the summer Lee's men had enough meat, flour and fodder. All of which were unavailable in Virginia. If you have any other strategies, feel free to write them in 'Others.'
Personally, I would choose:
Other - Surrender.

The final outcome would be the same, and it would save a lot of bloodshed along the way.
 
The best option for the confederates would be to surrender and try to get the best terms they could extract from the Union in exchange for an earlier peace.
 
Instead, Longstreet suggested that the bulk of his corps along with Joe Johnston's OTL Army of Relief

Man, he was really determined to work with JJ again wasn't he?

Lee also hoped that the threat to large Northern cities would compel the Federals to abandon the siege at Vicksburg or disease outbreaks in Mississippi force Grant to abandon the siege.

You know, just for the sake of curiosity, but this makes me wonder what it would be like if Lee decided to attack Washington....or at least a battle closer to Washington.

or Baltimore....

The best option for the confederates would be to surrender and try to get the best terms they could extract from the Union in exchange for an earlier peace.

Other: Travel back in time to 1860 and get the Trent Affair to start a war, then get British backing

The best option is to cry to Britain and France and hope for the best.

Well, that didn't take long.

don't think the odds are much higher for British support of a slave economy vs risking Canada.
 
Man, he was really determined to work with JJ again wasn't he?
Longstreet was certainly a good friend of Johnston, certainly close enough to send a letter in the fall of 1862 telling JJ that he should be back in command of the AoNV and the boys would welcome him with open arms. IIRC Longstreet's opposition to Bragg was in part due to his desire to see Joe in command of the Army of Tennessee.
You know, just for the sake of curiosity, but this makes me wonder what it would be like if Lee decided to attack Washington....or at least a battle closer to Washington.

or Baltimore....
Kinda hard to do when Meade is much closer to Washington than Lee was. Longstreet's proposal at Gettysburg to get between the Army of the Potomac and Washington falls apart when one realizes that Meade is the one with interior lines and cavalry watching his flanks.
Well, that didn't take long.
Considering the response of these kinds of threads in the past, I realize now that this was probably what I should have expected.
 
This has come up before on this forum, and I'm close to being persuaded by the arguments that the supply situation of the Army of Northern Virginia forced Lee to more or less conduct a giant raid into Pennsyvlania, both to plunder there and to get the Army of the Potomac away from Virginia. And actually they did exactly that. If they had avoided a big battle the campaign would be regarded now as a minor success. One problem was that the move was very risky and Lee nearly got his army wrecked at Gettysburg.

They needed Vicksburg to hold out as long as possible, and I wonder if they could have combed out more reinforcements for Mississippi. JE Johnston really didn't have enough troops to do anything, and I think Grant and Sherman both agreed with this in their memoirs. Probably a division could have been sent from the ANV, which if Lee avoided battle he wouldn't have missed much.
 
Longstreet was certainly a good friend of Johnston, certainly close enough to send a letter in the fall of 1862 telling JJ that he should be back in command of the AoNV and the boys would welcome him with open arms. IIRC Longstreet's opposition to Bragg was in part due to his desire to see Joe in command of the Army of Tennessee.

Yeah, I remember that from somewhere. Possibly from civilwartalk forums i remember reading that letter. "All the boys of the AONV miss you and wan't you back" or something along those lines. Was not a total fan of Lee taking command

Sometimes it makes me wonder what Lee and Johnson would be like in the same army working together.



Kinda hard to do when Meade is much closer to Washington than Lee was. Longstreet's proposal at Gettysburg to get between the Army of the Potomac and Washington falls apart when one realizes that Meade is the one with interior lines and cavalry watching his flanks.

Not going to deny its hard, just a good experiment to determine.


Considering the response of these kinds of threads in the past, I realize now that this was probably what I should have expected.

Its a hell of a lot politer than it was a few years ago
 
This has come up before on this forum, and I'm close to being persuaded by the arguments that the supply situation of the Army of Northern Virginia forced Lee to more or less conduct a giant raid into Pennsyvlania, both to plunder there and to get the Army of the Potomac away from Virginia. And actually they did exactly that. If they had avoided a big battle the campaign would be regarded now as a minor success. One problem was that the move was very risky and Lee nearly got his army wrecked at Gettysburg.

They needed Vicksburg to hold out as long as possible, and I wonder if they could have combed out more reinforcements for Mississippi. JE Johnston really didn't have enough troops to do anything, and I think Grant and Sherman both agreed with this in their memoirs. Probably a division could have been sent from the ANV, which if Lee avoided battle he wouldn't have missed much.
Vicksburg held out for as long as it could, Pemberton eventually received a letter signed by many soldiers demanding to surrender the city if they could not be fed. My quibble about the idea of reinforcing the Army of Relief is Joe Johnston's track record. Reinforcing Johnston with Pickett would give him a slight numerical superiority (of about 1000 IIRC) but Sherman has entrenched and, knowing Johnston, he wouldn't be too keen on attacking. It certainly didn't help that no other reinforcements were available: Bragg had already sent over two infantry division (well, three if you count C.L. Stevenson's trapped division in Vicksburg) and has no troops to spare, it's kinda impossible to get troops from Trans-Mississippi Theater and into Johnston's hands.

The idea of Lee avoiding battle here would be odd. At the time of Gettysburg, the Army of the Potomac was far weaker in strength compared to Chancellorsville. Lee was convinced that his army could whip the Army of the Potomac after Chancellorsville, and a victory on "foreign" soil could win their country the recognition from other nations. I don't think 'Lee the gambler' would not wish to miss this perceived opportunity.
 
Sometimes it makes me wonder what Lee and Johnson would be like in the same army working together.
IIRC Johnston's jealousy with Lee after Seven Pines was only resolved after he learned that Lee was the man who restored him to command in 1865. I'm not sure if Johnston would appreciate being under Lee in the AoNV, especially when he was the original commander. Not to mention the difference between Lee's and Johnston's strategic visions. Lee preferred to defend against Northern advances, then transfer the war north to keep the enemy off balance, subsist off their land, and win a victory to damage enemy morale and destroy their army. Johnston certainly preferred to remain on the defensive and strike after the enemy had exposed himself. It would make for an interesting situation where both Longstreet and Johnston end up arguing with Lee about their campaign plans.
Not going to deny its hard, just a good experiment to determine.
True, true. I know for a fact that the Washington was warned that its Garrison was under-strength in infantry, but considering the success rate of attacks on forts have been abysmally poor throughout the ACW, I am fairly certain that Lee would just waste men for nothing. Additionally, I don't buy the idea that Meade would throw his army onto a favourable position if Lee got between him and Washington. Meade, after all, is the man who, in the nadir of his military career, had the moral courage not to order the attack in the Mine Run campaign, despite pressure from the government and the threat of being relieved of command. Lee cannot remain in place for so long, and such a move would put his supply base open to Meade.

Its a hell of a lot politer than it was a few years ago
I guess so. At least I don't have TFSmith121 shoving facts down my throat, insisting the Union would come out on top, even if all of Europe declared war on the US.
 
Lee's invasion of the North was by the best option, as it presented a serious chance to destroy the main Northern force on its home soil which could trigger foreign intervention which remained distinctly possible at this time; see the Laird Rams and Roebuck Motion. The ability to capture large amounts of stores is also obvious.
 
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