America's Funniest President: Mo Udall Presidency & Beyond

[CountDVB]

Sure but Clinton clearly had national ambitions and see’s exactly that. He’s not in congress so it’s not like there’s a voting record that can be held against him plus he’s the governor of Arkansas so it’s not like he can be super liberal especially in his first term as governor from 1979-1981 and the party leadership would know that. I could easily see him going to party leadership and say “hey I’m really with you guys but I have to tone down the liberalism to win in my state” and I think party leadership would accept that. What I’m saying is that his second stint as governor in 1983-1991 will give him a great chance to make a national name for himself and appeal to the dem base. There’s no doubt he’d go for being the heir apparent to Askew’s “Face of the New South”. I just don’t think that Bill Clinton will stick to being a strict moderate like Al Gore because frankly unlike Gore I don’t think Clinton has any real values or beliefs. Clinton is a guy who will go wherever the wind blows to get as high a position as possible. In our timeline he went conservative at the national level because that’s what the american base was like in this case he’ll definitely be more liberal in his second governor stint to fit the bill. I just think the optics of Clinton are too good for him not to become a national name and eventually become president imo

Well, we will see. Remember, there's also a new rush of progressives coming in and they may new faces that never ran for office ITTL and so on. Hence that is what will make some of the more upcoming stuff harder to puzzle and figure out. Clinton does seem like a savvy operator, but don't start falling to fatalistic thinking.

There’s no doubt in my mind that the Clinton’s would take advantage of third wave feminism by having Hilary become a vocal spokesperson for it. She’d fit the bill perfectly and as a wife of a southern governor it would make it even bigger. I think they’d position and present themselves as a real partnership in governance of Arkansas and it would make the dem base+ Americans sympathizing with third wave feminism fall in love with them. They’d definitely position themselves as a power couple

That I am a little more unsure of there. Namely because third wave feminism is growing a cultural distinction more associated with the Brightbangers rather than the Babyboomers. Remember, by 1990, Hillary would be 44. So I do not think that Hillary would be able to become a spokesperson for it

 

[peeter]

Clinton does seem like a savvy operator

He was a political dynamo and prodigy who was elected governor at the age of 31. People were calling him the first black president because of his charisma and aura of coolness he had. He has the highest end of term approval rating of any president since FDR. The guy was a political force

but don't start falling to fatalistic thinking

If he doesn’t become president it’s hard for me to see him not become a big political name in some way. I could see him being speaker of the house or Senate Majority leader eventually. He’s simply too talented for the Democratic Party to not utilize him in some way

That I am a little more unsure of there. Namely because third wave feminism is growing a cultural distinction more associated with the Brightbangers rather than the Babyboomers. Remember, by 1990, Hillary would be 44. So I do not think that Hillary would be able to become a spokesperson for it

I think she could, she’s an older woman with access to power she’d be an incredibly valuable ally. I think she’d be very suited to be the one to bridge the gaps between the old and new generation of feminism or be a prominent voice in doing so. The young people are the activists but they’d need people in powerful positions as allies and I think she’d be the perfect one for that time.

 

[CountDVB]

He was a political dynamo and prodigy who was elected governor at the age of 31. People were calling him the first black president because of his charisma and aura of coolness he had. He has the highest end of term approval rating of any president since FDR. The guy was a political force

If he doesn’t become president it’s hard for me to see him not become a big political name in some way. I could see him being speaker of the house or Senate Majority leader eventually. He’s simply too talented for the Democratic Party to not utilize him in some way

I think she could, she’s an older woman with access to power she’d be an incredibly valuable ally. I think she’d be very suited to be the one to bridge the gaps between the old and new generation of feminism or be a prominent voice in doing so. The young people are the activists but they’d need people in powerful positions as allies and I think she’d be the perfect one for that time.

Doesn't gurantee the same sort of results here and well, times and matters change. I got plans for him and a bunch of others.

And still unsure of Clinton. There are reasons and divisions between the second wave and third wave for reasons after all.

Hillary was a "Goldwater Girl" and that would be something that may a bit more of a spectre of her to haunt.

The Clintons got a lot of success OTL because they were part of the New Democrats, the result of a shift to the right because of the victory of the neocons believed that it was what was needed. This isn't the same as OTL and people are changing in their voting patterns and the like.

This isn't the Greed Is Good corporate 1980s after all

 

[peeter]

The Clintons got a lot of success OTL because they were part of the New Democrats, the result of a shift to the right because of the victory of the neocons believed that it was what was needed. This isn't the same as OTL and people are changing in their voting patterns and the like.

Your assuming that Bill Clinton is going to stick to being the same Bill Clinton in OTL. What I’m saying is that it’s very likely that Clinton in this timeline is going to adapt to the new age and is going to be more liberal so he can run for a national office. The guy is a politician and isn’t stupid he’s going to see that being a hardcore moderate is going to put a ceiling on his ambitions. Just like us the readers he sees the failure of the Reagan administration and the shift of the country leftward. To me it would be very much out of character for him to not adjust to that to further his own political career. As I said earlier Bill isn’t some principled guy that has a set core of beliefs or policies he sticks to no matter what, he’s going to say whatever he thinks will further his career and he has the charisma and looks to back it up. He became governor in 1979 which means ITTL he’s entering the political spotlight in a time where conservatism is falling he’s not going to jump on that sinking ship

 

[CountDVB]

Your assuming that Bill Clinton is going to stick to being the same Bill Clinton in OTL. What I’m saying is that it’s very likely that Clinton in this timeline is going to adapt to the new age and is going to be more liberal so he can run for a national office. The guy is a politician and isn’t stupid he’s going to see that being a hardcore moderate is going to put a ceiling on his ambitions. Just like us the readers he sees the failure of the Reagan administration and the shift of the country leftward. To me it would be very much out of character for him to not adjust to that to further his own political career. As I said earlier Bill isn’t some principled guy that has a set core of beliefs or policies he sticks to no matter what, he’s going to say whatever he thinks will further his career and he has the charisma and looks to back it up.

Nah, I figure he's gonna change since there are always gonna be politicians who don't stand for anything, but their careers. I'm just wondering if that will be enough here in a time where things are different.

 

[peeter]

Nah, I figure he's gonna change since there are always gonna be politicians who don't stand for anything, but their careers. I'm just wondering if that will be enough here in a time where things are different

What things are different that would prevent a times adjusted Bill Clinton from thriving? There’s no political environment in the United States that would prevent a young, good looking and incredibly charismatic politician who’s echoing the favorable politics of the time from thriving and rising up the national ranks. Especially when this one is able to become governor at 31, like I can’t stress how impressive it is to become governor that young, he’s not just some nobody during the 80s. And ITTL it’s very likely he won’t lose the governer’s seat in 1980 like he does in real life which means if ITTL he ends being governer at the same time he does in real life he’d be the governer of Arkansas for 14 years if he doesn’t run for senator (and likely win) before 1992. There’s just no way that the Democratic Party wouldn’t spot him as a rising star and invest in him

 

[CountDVB]

1988 Overview​

1988 would be remembered as a year of great change and the starting point for a lot of bigger changes. With it being the final year of the Udall Administration, alot is being done to ensure a pretty smooth transition for the victory, which unsurprisingly turned out to be his Vice President, Reubin Askew. Despite the coming of the end, they still did not step and kept going with what they could with reforms. Expanding government funding into college education for law students is on the verge of approval, though with the caveat of the emphasis on public defenders. Additionally, the exploration into oil theft from Native American land by the Koch Industries has led to the resurrection to the debates about greater oversight and regulations on plastic, with some of the newer politicians noting the risks of plastic pollution and in response, the rise of lobbyists from the plastic industry coming in, which seemed to reinforce the concerns. Meanwhile, the Democrats widened their House holdings overall while the end of gerrymandering and the installation of the Wyoming Rule has shifted the electoral battleground, with various moderates hoping for better success as a result of this though others noted it would be more focused on the overall national trend and sentiment. Perhaps the last major thing was on the post-victory discussions. Anderson congratulated Askew on his victory while Askew acknowledged Anderson's concerns on the issues regarding the how voting and elections were handled. Indeed, some have seen Anderson speak with a few politicians and others on the matter, with two in particular having been recorded.

Beyond this, the international circle was buzzing with news. The Soviet Union, the other superpower who held mighty influence over the world, was beginning to crack and falter. The members of the Warsaw Pact and even within the Soviet Union itself were struggling and resisting against them or rather against the leadership of Moscow. The cries for liberty were being held and while some of the media tried saying this was a death knell for socialism, others have pointed out that it was nationalistic in nature. From Estonia's Singing Revolution to what was going on in Poland, the cracks were showing and pressure was mounting on Gorbachev for political reforms, even as the hardliners were desiring clamp downs. Even the nations in their sphere, like the Derg-controlled Ethiopia, was breaking from war and the mighty China appeared to be approaching their own flashpoint regarding the reformers led by Zhou Ziyang against the hardliners who expelled his predecessor earlier. However, not all the troubles laid over in the so-called Second world. The Afghan-Pakistani War was raging on and fears of a worsening war were growing, especially with the beginnings of Pakistani refugees coming in, primarily into the US and Canada among other places. Despite the divisive stances across the world, unity remained. The Olympics brought people together along with the reinforced need to address manmade climate change. From further US-USSR talks on nuclear power on Gen III reactor breakthroughs to a race on solar, wind and others that address recycling and resourcing issues to even biotech, comeptition and cooperation worked hand in hand.

Alot of films would be breaking out big here, even in the midst of the growing troubles in Hollywood because of the growing accusations of sexual harassment and worse. Rain Man would top the charts while Who Framed Roger Rabbit became a masterpiece to be remembered with everything put in, with Henson having been a notable force in helping the film, a combination of neo noir and a shoutout to classic animation. It also surprised people that the Streetcar conspriacy was actually true, something that would lead to a renewed interest in them in a more environmentlaly friendly era. It was also rumored a sequel or prequel was in the works, thanks to some convincing from Henson's part. Another big name was Die Hard, which revived some interest in more grounded action films, albeit with an everyman protgonist. Bruce Willis played cop John McClane, ending up in a situation to rescue hostages from Hans Gruber, a ruthless criminal/mercenary with totalitarian sympathies (some have believed the revelations regarding Austria's president influenced this). Animation meanwhile would be quite a surprise when Disney would released a dubbed version of the Japanese animated film My Neighbor Totoro, which came out earlier in Japan. Apparently, interest in this started over with checking on Disneyland Tokyo and some of the staff seeing Castle In the Sky, which came out in 1986. Intrigued, this would lead to a deal to dub and release the films in the United States. It would achieve massive success over in the United States and later the rest of the Western world, with Disney making more plans with Studio Ghibli. The environmentalist themes and simple living captured the American zeitgeist like no other and some even became intrigued by the animist and Shinto influences. However, another animated classic would premiere in Japan that would catch the attention of Disney and many other animation giants in the Western world in a different way... AKIRA. A brilliantly animated dark cyberpunk story, it was unlike anything ever seen in the West and the industry found themselves in shock and awe and what was made and the questions growing on why they can't make something like while some of the more opportunistic businessfolk wondered if something like AKIRA could succeed in the west... Meanwhile, rumors speculated in comic books of Marvel being put up for sale while video games continued to see massive growth and breakout hits.

 

[Mynock]

Though @Mynock, may I get your thoughts on the British and Canadian political stuff?

I don't know about the Canadian stuff, but Britain looks good. Interesting if you are going for europhile Tories vs maybe a soft-eurosceptic Labour, that will have ramifications down the line.

 

[CountDVB]

I don't know about the Canadian stuff, but Britain looks good. Interesting if you are going for europhile Tories vs maybe a soft-eurosceptic Labour, that will have ramifications down the line.

Well, Tories are sorta divided on it and while Labour is picking up steam, it’s also having to notice the changes better. And thank you c:

 

[Sir William Jol]

About the 1988 Canadian federal election you mentioned that the Liberals beat Progressive Conservative Prime Minister Brian Mulroney (elected in 1984 with a Minority government in this timeline) with a coalition with the NDP. So did the Liberals still run former Prime Minister John Turner as the leader of their party or did they turn to someone else new? And is Ed Broadbent still leading the NDP in this timeline? In our timeline I think his best result was in 1988 when the NDP won 20.38% of the popular vote so does he do any better in this timeline? Does the NDP drop a lot of its support by the 1993 Canadian federal election which they only won 6.8% like in our timeline or do those numbers drastically change here? Will the NDP win their first minority government here in 2011 with Jack Layton or do they have a shot at even earlier if they can find the right leader?

 

[CountDVB]

About the 1988 Canadian federal election you mentioned that the Liberals beat Progressive Conservative Prime Minister Brian Mulroney (elected in 1984 with a Minority government in this timeline) with a coalition with the NDP. So did the Liberals still run former Prime Minister John Turner as the leader of their party or did they turn to someone else new? And is Ed Broadbent still leading the NDP in this timeline? In our timeline I think his best result was in 1988 when the NDP won 20.38% of the popular vote so does he do any better in this timeline? Does the NDP drop a lot of its support by the 1993 Canadian federal election which they only won 6.8% like in our timeline or do those numbers drastically change here? Will the NDP win their first minority government here in 2011 with Jack Layton or do they have a shot at even earlier if they can find the right leader?

Yup, Turner is still in Liberal and Broadbent still in NDP. NDP did probably did a fair bit better though still Liberal is the dominant one of the coalition. Also, be patient for the upcoming stuff.

Canadian politics I am still trying to figure out with that

 

[CountDVB]

Any questions or so on 1988 culture or releases I may have missed?

 

[historybuff]

Do versions of some of the Halloween, Friday the 13th films or Nightmare on Elm Street still get made?

 

[CountDVB]

Do versions of some of the Halloween, Friday the 13th films or Nightmare on Elm Street still get made?

Yes they do! I talked about it some of it here: https://www.alternatehistory.com/fo...presidency-beyond.515135/page-7#post-22381802

But Halloween and Friday the 13th both become horror anthology series though Halloween is explicitly more supernatural with Friday the 13th being more down to earth compartively and havine some continuity. Nightmare on Elm Street meanwhile is mostly the same as OTL.

 

[CountDVB]

Here is what I am thinking for the list of the Udall administration!

1980 - 1988 Udall Administration
President: Morris King Udall
Vice President: Reuben Askew
Secretary of State: Jimmy Carter
Secretary of Defense: Benjamin O. Davis, Jr
Secretary of Housing & Urban Development: Moon Landrieu
Attorney General: Stephen Breyer
Secretary of the Interior: Cecil Andrus
Secretary of Transportation: Neil Goldschmidt
Secretary of Energy: Dixy Lee Ray
Secretary of the Treasury: W. Michael Blumenthal
Secretary of Agriculture: Norman Ernest Borlaug
Secretary of Labor: F. Ray Marshall
Secretary of Commerce: Juanita Kreps
Secretary of Health & Human Services: Patricia Roberts Harris
Secretary of Education: Joseph Daniel Duffey
UN Ambassador: Andrew Young
National Security Advisor: Edmund Muskie

US Senate Majority Leader: Ted Kennedy
US Senate Minority Leader: Bob Dole

US Speaker of House: Thomas Phillip O'Neill Jr.
US House Minority Leader: John B Anderson

 

[historybuff]

Great list. even if many of them are names I haven't heard before.

 

[CountDVB]

Great list. even if many of them are names I haven't heard before.

Some are from OTL Carter while other are from research.

They’re pretty fascinating, especially Dixy Lee Ray. I suspect she’d be one of the few who would return to the post in the Askew administration.

 

[historybuff]

Okay. You say he'd probably keep Carter at State as well?

 

[Sir William Jol]

Did George Moscone get killed in 1978 in this timeline? If he did then Dianne Feinstein might be a possible choice for HUD or HHS Secretary in the Askew administration. Anyways here are some propositions for Askew cabinet members partly taken from the Biden Express thread.
Secretary of State: Warren Christopher/Jimmy Carter
Secretary of the Treasury: Lloyd Bentsen
Secretary of Defense: Lee H. Hamilton
Attorney General: Richard Blumenthal
Secretary of the Interior: Bruce Babitt
Secretary of Agriculture: Jim Hightower
Secretary of Commerce: Gerald Baliles
Secretary of Labor: Eleanor Norton
Secretary of Health and Human Services: Dianne Feinstein
Secretary of Housing and Urban Development: Ron Brown/Moon Landrieu/Dianne Feinstein
Secretary of Transportation: Tommy Thompson
Secretary of Energy: Lawton Chiles/Dixy Lee Ray/Lee Iacocca
Secretary of Education: Donna Shalala
Secretary of Veterans Affairs: Jim Webb
National Security Advisor: Zbigniew Brzezinski
Trade Representative: Paul Tsongas/Dick Gephardt
Ambassador to the United Nations: Richard Holbrooke
Solicitor General: Robert Reich

Jesse Jackson?
Rudy Perpich?

 

[CountDVB]

Okay. You say he'd probably keep Carter at State as well?

Yup, most likely!