Alternative History Armoured Fighting Vehicles Part 3

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La Rouge Beret

La Rouge Beret

Claymore said:
Cheers mate! This one has been on the back burner for some time but I did post details/pics way back on pages 52. 53 and 170. Given that I can't do any final paint schemes at the mo, I thought it only fair to post it up on my completed models thread along with the other new entries. ;)
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That was cheeky!

I didn't realise that you had completed the build and the Mongoose certainly looks right. Either way I wouldn't want to be a pilot flying CAS or in an attack helicopter with a troop of those around.

Also Phar Lap looks damn good too.
 
FickleCrossroad

FickleCrossroad

Claymore said:
I guess you need to ask exactly what you want the potential StuG for. As designed, the OTL StuGs were true Assault Guns and, as such, were intended for intimate close support of the infantry - firing at relatively close ranges at specific, individual targets/strong points/bunkers/etc. What you need for this role is a relatively short barrelled, large calibre, HE-thrower (not a M1918) mounted in a heavily armoured and enclosed mount. If you are after a true SPG and/or SPH to fire en masse, at range against area targets then a larger open mount is more desired/acceptable.
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Claymore said:
M3 TD Mk II Actual Scale Size.png
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"Relatively short barreled?"

:rolleyes:

I am interested in this M9 though. German StuG doctrine AND fitting equipment in US hands makes me want to see this in a story.
 

wietze

Claymore said:
M9 Sheridan GMC Update:

Cutting and slashing is progressing at a pace with the resulting wreckage being rebuilt. All a bit rough and ready at this stage as getting everything to match up with such complex shapes is tricky - I have used reversed paper templates to good effect. Filling and sanding will smarten everything up on due course. Not yet sure how best to replicate the countless rivets that swarm like Beelzebub's pimples all over the surface of the M3! They are quite subtle but obviously there and so cannot be ignored. Might go for 3D decals which I have used before - fiddly but relatively quick to apply and gives a standard-sized finish... Oh, joy!!!

Anyhoo, a couple of WIP pics to keep you up to date (the hull top is not yet attached)...

View attachment 642402
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what you would need is something that works with putty. so a die that fills with putty and then pressed on the body to apply the putty rivet (or even a row of rivets)
 
Not James Stockdale

Not James Stockdale

At this point, I think I'm going to drop the 3-inch field gun and just use my bootleg 25-pdr field guns I have converted from the WWI-era 18-pdr analogues.
AJE said:
Only such gun I can think of is the Birch gun Mk III, or maybe some of the Soviet SPGs based on the T-28/T-35 or T-26.
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All of these vehicles were mechanized artillery rather than assault guns. The T-26 is similar in size to the Su-76M, so the largest reasonable gun in Manticoran service would be field guns and howitzers (3 to 3.5 inch guns and 4 to 5 inch howitzers). A hull the size of a T-28 or A1E1 Independent could carry a heavy piece (corps artillery, 4 to 5 inch guns and 6 inch howitzers). I wouldn't consider a vehicle as large as the T-35 at this point.
 
Claymore

Claymore

FickleCrossroad said:
"Relatively short barreled?"

:rolleyes:

I am interested in this M9 though. German StuG doctrine AND fitting equipment in US hands makes me want to see this in a story.
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The original StuG III concept (a true assault gun) carried the short-barrelled 7.5cm StuK 37 L/24 - only later adopting the longer-barrelled 7.5cm guns when AT capability became a more pressing issue.

The M9 GMC, on the other hand, is not a StuG/Assault Gun at all but rather is a US doctrinal Tank Destroyer - a fore-runner to the M10, M18, and M36 and, as such, is more akin to the German jagdpanzers.
 
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longtimelurkerinMD

Claymore said:
The original StuG III concept (a true assault gun) carried the short-barrelled 7.5cm StuK 37 L/24 - only later adopting the longer-barrelled 7.5cm guns when AT capability became a more pressing issue.

The M9 GMC, on the other hand, is not a StuG/Assault Gun at all but rather is a US doctrinal Tank Destroyer - a fore-runner to the M10, M18, and M36 and, as such, is more akin to the German jagdpanzers.
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Can't help but remember the 90mm American Jagdpanther you did a while back - it was remarkable how close it looked to the German version. This M9 seems like a much better use of the old Lee's and Grants than IOTL, even for Pacific - especially if they make a 105 howitzer version - now you have a fully enclosed protection for the crew.
If they make sure it has cannister - - truly nasty. Check fires self on 90mm stuff any further :).

Germans would have done well to put a better ammo mix in their Jagdpanzer units depending on the mission. This came up in the initial part of the Ardennes when they were using JpzrIV's for lack of Stugs in the 6 SS Panzer Army sector. Zaloga's Smashing the Panzers goes into that - very good by the way with excellent maps. Come to respect his work quite a bit of late - a lot of debunking the "Sherman's were bad" myth.

My understanding was Americans had an even mix of HE and AP in their TD's which ended up doing a lot of HE work especially in Italy.
 
Claymore

Claymore

Not James Stockdale said:
Just to clarify, my intention for a base vehicle is closer in time period to the Medium Mark D or the US Medium Tanks M1921 or M1922 than the later Vickers mediums.
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...and so, a starter for 10. I have based this assault gun on the US Medium M1921 rather than the OTL slightly more numerous M1922 partly because I have a relatively good image of the M1921 to work with and partly because it was the design of the original M1921 that was later developed into the Medium M1 in the late 20s. I have adapted the layout of the Char B1 (an early 20s concept) to fit the gun in an 'assault gun' type configuration - there is actually more room than on the actual Char B1. I have also added a twin MG mount in the single-man turret for the Commander - all very typical of the time. The gun is still a French 75mm but I am sure that a truncated 18/25 pdr would fit just as well.

Please let me know what you think and what you would want changed.

Medium M1921 AG.png
 
Not James Stockdale

Not James Stockdale

Claymore said:
...and so, a starter for 10. I have based this assault gun on the US Medium M1921 rather than the OTL slightly more numerous M1922 partly because I have a relatively good image of the M1921 to work with and partly because it was the design of the original M1921 that was later developed into the Medium M1 in the late 20s. I have adapted the layout of the Char B1 (an early 20s concept) to fit the gun in an 'assault gun' type configuration - there is actually more room than on the actual Char B1. I have also added a twin MG mount in the single-man turret for the Commander - all very typical of the time. The gun is still a French 75mm but I am sure that a truncated 18/25 pdr would fit just as well.

Please let me know what you think and what you would want changed.

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That looks great. It’s more tank-like than I was anticipating, but I could definitely see it evolving into a cautionary tale about mixing hull-mounted and turret-mounted guns.
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I didn’t realize exactly how close to the Char B1 my idea was, but I found these pictures on Wikipedia of the SRA prototype, which even uses the same cable track.
 
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Claymore

Claymore

Not James Stockdale said:
That looks great. It’s more tank-like than I was anticipating, but I could definitely see it evolving into a cautionary tale about mixing hull-mounted and turret-mounted guns.
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View attachment 643005I didn’t realize exactly how close to the Char B1 my idea was, but I found these pictures on Wikipedia of the SRA prototype, which even uses the same cable track.
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Yes, the SRA was my inspiration to adapt the M1921 although I used details from the Char B1 Because that was the closest thing I had. The twin MG turret was my homage to the SRA although I used the turret from a US M1917 light tank just to keep the US look right. Glad you like it. 👍
 
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Claymore

Claymore

M9 GMC "Sheridan" Update:

A bit more work on the M9 now sees the gun mount in position and boxed in (all very fiddly but went together pretty much as hoped). As you can see though, there is now a very large hole in the top of the fighting compartment - the casting for the model's M3 Lee turret was just too obvious and impossible to hide, so off/out it had to come. Various other bits of surface detail from the top will also need to be removed and I will then box in the turret hole with plastic card. Oh what fun! (Hull top still not attached - just plonked there for the pics)... ;)

Early 4.jpg
 
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Soundwave3591

Claymore said:
M9 GMC "Sheridan" Update:

A bit more work on the M9 now sees the gun mount in position and boxed in (all very fiddly but went together pretty much as hoped). As you can though, there is now a very large hole in the top of the fighting compartment - the casting for the model's M3 Lee turret was just too obvious and impossible to hide, so off/out it had to come. Various other bits of surface detail from the top will also need to be removed and I will then box in the turret hole with plastic card. Oh what fun! (Hull top still not attached - just plonked there for the pics)... ;)

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just a thought from my own musing, but would it be practical to retain the Lee's Machine-Gun cupola from the turret? or at least a commander's cupola of some kind?
 
Claymore

Claymore

Soundwave3591 said:
just a thought from my own musing, but would it be practical to retain the Lee's Machine-Gun cupola from the turret? or at least a commander's cupola of some kind?
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I will indeed by adding a Commander's cupola as per my initial design drawing (see below). It's just that sometimes in the building process you need to cut away more than you would ideally want but it all gets put back in the right place eventually. The Commander's cupola will be a relatively simple affair to represent the times and it will come with either a 0.5" HMG or a 30-cal MG - I haven't decided which yet or how exactly it will be mounted.

M3 TD Mk II Actual Scale Size.png
 
Claymore

Claymore

M9 GMC "Sheridan" Update:

...and here is Sunday's update. I have been busy filling holes big and small and sanding everything into shape. The hull top is still free floating to give me better access and the gun barrel is just wedged in. Speaking of the barrel, this is an actual 3" M7 gun taken from an old M10 Wolverine TD model that I grabbed from my stash the last time I was home at Christmas. This is great as I don't have to buy a new one but the down side is that my M10 model hade camouflage netting round the barrel which has left marks - I‘m still trying to smooth things off - if I'm not happy with the result, I may yet have to order up a metal replacement... We shall see.

Anywho, here are the latest pics...

Early 5.jpg


Early 6.jpg


Early 7.jpg
 
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