Alternate World War One - - Part One

[FederationX]

This is my first real attempt at writing alternate history myslef, so a lot of help is appreciated. Some parts aren't meant to be too relaisitc, just entertaining. Please tell me what you think and help or suggestions are greatly appreciated. This part one of six I believe, if I continue write this timeline. There are still a lot of grammical errors, sorry. Thank you.


1914- Western Front

August 3rd – King Albert I of Belgium accepts Germany's ultimatum for free access into Belgian territory.

August 4th – The First, Second and Third German armies peacefully march through Belgium and start to head for France. Britain; fearful of a German victory over France and Russia, plus the Belgium situation after the war forces them to declare war on Germany.

August 9th – German armies I, II and III cross into France from Belgium. Moltke follows the Schlieffen Plan with out altering it too much and heads straight for Paris. More BEF troops start arriving at French ports.

August 14th – The French 1st and 2nd armies advance into the lost provinces of Alsace-Lorraine with some success of pushing into German territory. German forces have already reached the Somme in northern France. Germany sees an opportunity of taking Paris if it can crush the French army that has retreated to the Oise.

August 14th to 20th – The Battle of the Frontiers begins with German and French forces fighting on the border of Alsace-Lorraine. Initial French success is crushed when the German 6th and 7th Armies counterattack and push the French back into their own territory. The French decide to retreat their forces back to Paris to defend it from an imminent German attack.

August 23rd – The German army has slogged their way to the Oise River and are awaiting orders to strike at Paris itself.


August 24th to August 29th – French and British forces counterattack the Germans on the Oise River. The Battle of The Oise will become the bloodiest battle of the entire war. The battle, only 20 kilometers northwest of Paris is the decisive moment on the Western Front. The German I and II armies are able to cut the allied forces in half while the III German Army cuts across the Marne River. The battle lasts only five days but over 875,000 causalities result from it. The entire French Army defending the the Oise and Marne are crushed and retreat directly to Paris. The BEF follows French forces to Paris, also.

September 1st – Germany has reached the French capital. The French government evacuates to Bordeaux and prepares for the final assault on Paris.

September 3rd to 14th – The French 6th Army and BEF divisions engage the three German armies in Paris. Civilians flee the city as it gets pounded with German artillery. Kluck's I Army is able to push into the center of Paris while the II and III armies encircle the city and the allied troops defending it. After eleven days of fighting the allied armies are forced to surrender.

September 15th – German forces enter the crumbling French capital. BEF forces currently not in combat in France evacuate to Britain. The world is in shock as it is nos imminent France will have to surrender.

September 28th – France calls for an armistice and awaits a peace conference. Germany annexes Luxembourg forth-right right after the French calls for the armistice.

October 2nd – Britain completely evacuates France. The United Kingdom is still at war with the Central Powers and continues to strike at the Ottoman Empire. With Britain's army out of the fight in Europe, the navy continues to win battles against the German High Seas Fleet in the North Atlantic.

October 7th – Japan declares war on Germany. Japanese forces head out against the German held Caroline Islands in the Central Pacific.

October 17th – The Treaty of Brussels is signed between Germany and France. The major parts of the treaty are as followed:

1.The Departments of Meuse, Meur the- et- Moselle and Vosges are to be annexed into Germany.
2.France will shall enter into an economic union with Germany
3.France shall pay for all damages caused upon Germany.
4.German military and personal shall leave Belgium and have the option of joining a separate customs union with Germany.
5.All French forts and military installations within a 50 kilometer area bordering Germany shall be dismantled and unarmed. This area shall be under inspection without notice.
6.All Pacific territories under French control shall be annexed to Germany
7.French West Africa, Tunisia, Morraco and Madagascar shall become colonial possessions of Germany.

 

[David S Poepoe]

Don't see the French giving up so easily and so quickly. Think the estimated casualties for the Battle of Oise '875,000' to be a bit on the high end - if not completely unlikely for a battle so early in the war. Such losses would probably have stopped the war itself in its tracks.

 

[Knight Of Armenia]

Uhm... Restudy the Schlieffen Plan (and I personally won't hear any of this new "it actually didn't exist" stuff). It called for a circling BEHIND Paris, not heading directly towards it; that is basically what von Moltke ended up doing.

Also, Germany probably wouldn't have annexed Luxembourg, but would have entered into a customs union or somesuch with it (thus it would be easier to cajole Britain into peace talks). But besides this, France simply wouldn't have surrendered, but would have kept on fighting; it had already made plans to evacuate the government to Bordeaux and keep up the fight.

And if this is what happens, then what about Berlin? Without the reinforcements necessary for the crushing victories against Russia, why aren't Russian troops penetrating deeper into Prussia, hell, even threatening Berlin? That is why Moltke sent off so many troops, weakening the right flank (despite the fact that Schlieffen's last words were "keep the right flank strong!").

 

[Chengar Qordath]

Also, Germany probably wouldn't have annexed Luxembourg, but would have entered into a customs union or somesuch with it (thus it would be easier to cajole Britain into peace talks). But besides this, France simply wouldn't have surrendered, but would have kept on fighting; it had already made plans to evacuate the government to Bordeaux and keep up the fight.

Germany did plan to annex Luxemburg. The Kaiser viewed it as simply a rogue German state that did not join in 1870 with everyone else.

And if this is what happens, then what about Berlin? Without the reinforcements necessary for the crushing victories against Russia, why aren't Russian troops penetrating deeper into Prussia, hell, even threatening Berlin? That is why Moltke sent off so many troops, weakening the right flank (despite the fact that Schlieffen's last words were "keep the right flank strong!").

Tannenburg happened before any of the reinforcements sent from the Western front arrived on the Eastern front. The transfer of these units is genrally considered to have been a blunder on Moltke's part, as it meant that several divisions were not available for either of the decisive battles of early WWI.

 

[Straha]

soem things to consider for the ATL:

1 Petain or Degaulle could become "hitler" figures for a france in a victorious germany arms TL.

2 If you don't want to have it go the fascist route why not have a communist latin leage of france, italy, spain and portugal?

3 why not have the ottomans survive and possibly become a hostile theocratic power. Translate OTL's late 20th/21st century feeling on islamism and translate it 70-80 years earlier.

4 Why not have a theocratic/fascist/military government in russia? Perhapts wecould see the Grand alliance of germany/Japan/Britain against the latin leauge/Russia/ottoman empire. The resultign world war would make WWII look like a mild war.

 

[Tom_B]

Common Misconception

The Schlieffen Plan was not really about taking Paris--it was about encircling and destroying most of the French Army. The Schlieffen Plan simply would not work as intended--it was doomed to failure on a logistics basis even if the crisis of the MArne was avoided.

France going Fascist after losing World War One is a bit of a cliche in AH. Cliche's are usually halftruths. If France loses I think there would be at least two mutually antagonistic Right Wing groups--one UltraCatholic and monarchist and the other anticlerical Supernationalist (probably worshipping Clemenceau as a father figure).

 

[Syphon]

ALT WWI

Hi,

September 28th – France calls for an armistice and awaits a peace conference.
October 7th – Japan declares war on Germany. Japanese forces head out against the German held Caroline Islands in the Central Pacific.

This is the section I find difficult to see why it would happen.
France has already called for an armistice, logic denotes that if Japan wanted territory in SE Asia declaring war on France would get Japan more valuable territories than some minor islands in the Pacific.
They don't even have to declare war on Great Britain just France after all doesn't the old saying go you don't hit a man while he's down you kick him it's easier.

In this instance Japan "wins" a proforma war with France and grabs some of France's colonial possessions. With so many deaths in France itself, even if I believe that the figure is way too high for a single battle, France still won't have the troops to spare to protect it's SE Asian possessions.

In regards to the large battle 825k casualities in under a week means more than 100k a day.
To get casualities like this you would need troops charging massed machine guns while artillery is lobbing gass at them at the same time.
No sane soldier would do it and they would probablly shot any officer who tried to get them to do it.
Even at Gallipoli the ANZAC troops were charging up hill at fixed defences and didn't come close daily rates like this. Even the US civil war at Gettysburg had daily casualities rates much less than this and the US civil war is historically the most bloody war theres been in history when you take into account the numbers of combatants involved.

As an Aussie I don't particually like the French and our friendly sheepies across the Tasman probabally like them a hell of a lot less. So keep up the TL as the saying goes practice makes perfect but I'll settle for good enough.

I hope to see part two soon.

Ps in one of my TL's Germany gets a lot more teritories than they have so far in yours. Just remember your only limits should be to keep your TL feasable if you do that most people wont complain.

 

[NHBL]

A few questions

I'm not an expert on land warfare, so I'll leave that part of the debate to others. I do have some thoughts on other action.

Would Japan declare war when it did? The Entente is in a bad situation. Japan wants those islands, but is it worthwhile in this case? I'd expect Britian to sweeten the pot with a very free hand in China post-war.

With France out of the war, and the economic union, therre will be less need for unrestricted submarine warfare. It may happen anyways, but since Germany isn't desperate, American objections should carry more weight. Without that, and with no "Rape of Belgium," British propaganda may have a harder time in the USA, although the harsh peace terms may have some importance. IMHO, the USA stays on its side of the Atlantic.
France can feed Germany, and provide other key resources, reducing the effects of the blockade to a point.
What of the French fleet? I can see Germany wanting it--or at least wanting it neutralized. There's no really good way for it to get anywhere without being sunk by the British. It's disposition will be critical, battleships were a status symbol as well as a weapon of war.
British victories over the High Seas Fleet would, IMHO, be much as historical, there's no great advantage to be gained for Germany by risking the fleet against the Royal Navy. Something could change, but the "Fleet in Being" was such a part of the war plan that I doubt it. No Skagerrak, possibly no Dogger Bank, unless the war doen't end soon. Wilhelm simply didn't want to risk his shiny ships. He might commit Dreadnoughts to the Baltic for a short opperation. (And the tendency of British battlecruisers to explode, and British shells not to explode, might not be noticed for some time)
Incidently, for this to work, you might need to kill off King Albert of Belgium and place a new ruler on the throne.
I think that Russia will fall--a smart Czar would try to make the best peace he could right then, even if he has to give up quite a bit, because he can see the rest of the world's most powerful army getting onto trains for points east...
Once Russia falls or makes peace, Britian can fight on, but why? Neither side can seriously hurt the other, I'd expect some sort of peace, although the British government might need to fall.
Some long term technological results:
No trench warfare with static fronts. Likely result, tanks deveoloping slower, although they should develop.
With less experiance wit the horrors of poison gas, it may not be outlawed--it might not even have been used.
Aircraft development is also retarded, although it will happen.
Meanwhile the USA sits behind its 3000 mile moat, building more of its moat monsters.
Incidently, addition to the treaty--Germany pays for any damage it did to Belgium. (It will come from France's reparation payments)
Just a few random thoughts...

 

[David S Poepoe]

Hi,

September 28th – France calls for an armistice and awaits a peace conference.
October 7th – Japan declares war on Germany. Japanese forces head out against the German held Caroline Islands in the Central Pacific.

This is the section I find difficult to see why it would happen.
France has already called for an armistice, logic denotes that if Japan wanted territory in SE Asia declaring war on France would get Japan more valuable territories than some minor islands in the Pacific.
They don't even have to declare war on Great Britain just France after all doesn't the old saying go you don't hit a man while he's down you kick him it's easier.

In this instance Japan "wins" a proforma war with France and grabs some of France's colonial possessions. With so many deaths in France itself, even if I believe that the figure is way too high for a single battle, France still won't have the troops to spare to protect it's SE Asian possessions.

In regards to the large battle 825k casualities in under a week means more than 100k a day.
To get casualities like this you would need troops charging massed machine guns while artillery is lobbing gass at them at the same time.
No sane soldier would do it and they would probablly shot any officer who tried to get them to do it.
Even at Gallipoli the ANZAC troops were charging up hill at fixed defences and didn't come close daily rates like this. Even the US civil war at Gettysburg had daily casualities rates much less than this and the US civil war is historically the most bloody war theres been in history when you take into account the numbers of combatants involved.

The reason the Japanese aren't going to be falling upon French possession in the Far East is that they are allies of the British, who are allies of the French. Don't equate the Japanese of 1914 with those of 1929 or so, they are different.

Secondly, the high casualties appear unlikely since this is the opening phase of the war, the "troops charging massed machine guns while artillery is lobbing gass at them" are all hallmarks of the later war years once the Front had stablized into trench warfare. A successful Moltke Interpretation of the Non-Existent Schlieffen Plan would still have the Germans vastly outrunning their supply and communication lines.

 

[FederationX]

My reasons

The reason I have Japan decalre war on Germany is because they can't really do anything about it. If Japan tries and takes the lost French territories in the Pacfic Britain would declare war. I'm not going to have Japan take the new territories from Germany because that might cause the UK declare war, and being at war with Germany and Britain isn't too good. Everybody is right about the high casuality rate I had. It was a huge miscalculation but I'm not changing it right now.

I'm going to have a World War 2, within 25 years after this one. Straha, I am trying to make France fascist but I am a little unsure how to do this. All help is appreciated I'm almost done with Part Two and I should have it up by tommorow. This first 2 parts of timeline are just 1914. Part one is on the Western Front and the second part is on the Eastern Front, which is altered also. In Part 3 all the fronts will be put together. I will also have a world report explaining what is going on during the war. If I get past the war, I hope to move on as far as 1950.

I need some help with the United States. I don't plan them to join the Great War, but what will happen to Woodrow Wilson? I'm not sure if he would get reelected if the allies crumble, even if the USA is isolationist country. I think if they watch France and Russia fall a lot more money will be put into the US Armed Forces.

As I said, Part 2 should be up tommorow,and Part 3 will have all the war fronts and areas put together. I just wanted to cut the first part into 2 parts to make each front seperate. All thoughts and suggestions are asked for, so thank you.

 

[Mako-Chan]

W... T... F...

soem things to consider for the ATL:

1 Petain or Degaulle could become "hitler" figures for a france in a victorious germany arms TL.

2 If you don't want to have it go the fascist route why not have a communist latin leage of france, italy, spain and portugal?

3 why not have the ottomans survive and possibly become a hostile theocratic power. Translate OTL's late 20th/21st century feeling on islamism and translate it 70-80 years earlier.

4 Why not have a theocratic/fascist/military government in russia? Perhapts wecould see the Grand alliance of germany/Japan/Britain against the latin leauge/Russia/ottoman empire. The resultign world war would make WWII look like a mild war.

Wow Straha, why don't you just post half of my Crazy Days TL?

 

[Straha]

....Wow CD hasn't even been posted yet so no

Wow Straha, why don't you just post half of my Crazy Days TL?

1 the red latin leauge idea is a red latin superstate NOT red italy/spain nations.

2 a Nazilike france is NOT the same as a junta

3 I don't recall the ottomans going theocratic in crazy days

 

[LordKalvan]

I somehow believe France may follow two alternative paths after a crushing defeat in WW1: monarchy is restored, and france becomes a very conservative, ultra-Catholic nation (Action Francais scenario); the alternative would be a repetition of the 1870 Commune, this time successful, and the establishment of a "Communist" state. I doubt the German Empire would be really pleased by such a development, so my money would be on the former option.
About the peace treaty: why should Germany go for so many colonial possessions (which would also be completely undefensible against UK navy)?
I might see France ceding Tunisia (and maybe Corsica) to Germany, who would retroced them to Italy (as a compensation for AH gains in the Balkans).
I would also expect Germany to want garrison rights in a number of strategic positions in France; the occupation of the border zone is also quite likely.
If you want to be really nasty (this might be the case if the french navy refuses to surrender, and steams into British ports) Germany might set up a couple of puppet mini-states (I'm thinking of Brittany and the Pays Basques);
Belgium might get some border adjustments as compensation for its acquiescence.
I wonder if it would be feasible (in 1914) to have a situation similar to the Free Franch of 1940: the navy refuses to surrender, and the colonial empire goes on in the war, with British support. You may even end up with a Republican France outremer opposed to a monarchist mainland France

 

[David S Poepoe]

The reason I have Japan decalre war on Germany is because they can't really do anything about it. If Japan tries and takes the lost French territories in the Pacfic Britain would declare war. I'm not going to have Japan take the new territories from Germany because that might cause the UK declare war, and being at war with Germany and Britain isn't too good. Everybody is right about the high casuality rate I had. It was a huge miscalculation but I'm not changing it right now.

All thoughts and suggestions are asked for, so thank you.

The Japanese were allies of the British since 1904 (or so) and so it won't be too hard to get the Japanese to enter the war. The Japanese will just have to move faster than the way things are falling out in Europe. Its fairly much like the Battle of New Orleans and its influence on the War of 1812 - none. The Germans aren't going to be in any shape to continue the war with Japan and they certainly aren't going to have the capability to do so anyway. There will just an armistice signed between Japan and Germany. Whatever territory Japan has as the close of hostilities it'll keep. The Germans will consider gains in Europe adequately outweigh Far East losses.

 

[NHBL]

Consequences...

Wilson may well get reelected, especially if he acts as an honest broker to help bring peace--he tried in our timeline. "He kept us out of war" may well be enough. American elections are so hard to call, sometimes even almost four years after the fact, that I'll not try to guess this one's outcome. Whichever way your plot calls for could be made to work, with a bit of effort.
The Pacific Islands could be seen as a matter of national honor by the Germans, obstructing a practical peace. This could be overcome by a nominal price being paid to Germany for the islands.
If I were in Japan's position, I'd be willing to do that to satisfy German honor. Otherwise, Germany will be hostile to Japan for a long time. At first glance, this seems trivial for Japan, but for one minor problem a mere 6000 miles away. This rude, crude nation that most of Europe dismisses as second rate is building battleships like there's an invasion coming, and likely won't stop. Since Japan sees these rude Americans as a likely enemy, the last thing they want is German ships joining with American bases.
Britain would be likely to quietly let Japan know that the alliance does not include fighting the USA--it did that in OTL. After all, Canada, and Bermuda are effectively hostages for Britian's good behavior.
Just a few more random thoughts--you're dealing with one of my favorite time periods for A/H.

 

[FederationX]

Okay, here is Part 2. Part 3 will have both fronts and other world stuff intergrated, but the first two parts are purposely cut into two. Part 3 will deal with 1915, just to let everybody know. I should have a map of Europe and/ or the World by the end of Part 3. So here you go. Hope you like it. Sorry about any grammar errors, as usual.

- - Part Two- -

1914- Eastern Front

August 17th – The First and Second Russian armies under General Paul Rennenkamph enter East Prussia. Germany plans to defend and then counterattack.

August 20th – The Russian 1st and 2nd armies engage the German 8th Army under the command of Max von Prittwitz. The battle; near Gumbinnen, East Prussia results in a draw, with high casualty rates on both sides. German forces retreat in disarray, as Prittwitz panics. Russian forces advance farther into East Prussia.

August 21st to 26th – Prittwitz is fired and Paul von Hindenburg is brought out of retirement to take command of the German forces on the Eastern Front. The Second Russian Army gets pounded by German forces as they advance farther into East Prussia. General Samsonsov, commander of the 2nd Russian Army is drawn into confusion. German forces begin to encircle the disorganized Russians.

POD - Austrian forces under the command of General Conrad von Hotzendorf engages the Russian forces under General Ivanov in Galicia, located in Austria- Hungary. Conrad uses his cavalry effectively to spot the Russian forces before they engage in the battle. Austrian forces crush the Russian left flank and send their reserves to crush the Russian attack on their own right. The Russians get encircled and are crushed. Ivanov is able to retreat but suffers some 200,000 casualties compared to Conrad's 100,000. Conrad is now able to enter Russian Moldavia.



August 27th to 31th – Russian forces strike around Tannenberg against Germany's 20th Corps. The Germans counterattack and by the end of the 29th, over 150,000 Russians are now trapped. Within just a couple days the German Army crushes Samsonsov's 2nd Army. Russia suffers over 125,000 casualties, including Samsonsov; believed to have committed suicide.

September 3rd – The Czar orders Russian troops protecting Warsaw to go to the Dniester River to stop any Austrian incursion.

September 5th to 9th – Austria crosses into Russia to engage the Russian defenses on the Dniester River. The battle is a stalemate, with Austria- Hungary suffering 60,000 casualties and Russia some 45,000. Russia may have stopped Austrian forces at the Dniester, but at the cost of leaving Warsaw an open target for Germany.

POD September 8th to 14th – Hindenburg tracks down the Russian 1st Army near the Masurian Lakes in East Prussia. The Germans are able to crush the Russians southern flank; and the Russian general, Rennenkamph panics. Instead of sacrificing two divisions to let the rest of his army escape, he has them with the main bulk that is retreating. The Germans trap the Russian 1st Army and crush them in a few short days. Another huge Russian defeat, just like at Tannenberg a couple weeks before. The Russian Army suffers some 175,000 casualties in the entire battle and retreat process.

September 21st – The Czar see that the war is turning against them very fast. With the loses mounting in East Prussia and Moldavia, plus the surrender of France, things seem to becoming desperate. The Czar orders the Russian forces in East Prussia to retreat to the Neimen River in Poland and for their forces in the south to dig in on the eastern side of the Dniester River to await another around of Austrian attacks. The Russian reserves that were going to reinforce in East Prussia are now ordered to fortify Warsaw and await the German attack.

October – Skirmishes run across the battlefield all across Poland and Moldavia. The Germans are able to make small gains in Poland, but at high costs. With France out of the war however, Germany is able to send hundreds of thousands of more troops to counter the Russian counterattacks near Warsaw, reinforce Austria- Hungary and prepare for their attack on Warsaw.

November 18th – German forces head out for Warsaw. Austrian forces strike at the Dniester River to throw the Russians off balance as Germany hits Warsaw.

November 22nd to 28th – Battle of Warsaw. Germany fights for every meter of ground as the Russians have dug in with their reserves. Overtime, however Germany just keeps sending wave after wave of attackers until the city falls on the 28th. Russian forces retreat to Brest- Litovsk and fortify their position all the way to Pinsk in central Poland. Everything from the southern border of Lithuania to the Austria- Hungary border has fallen to the Central Powers.

December – Many now believe Russia will surrender. President Wilson of the United States hopes to mediate a suitable peace between Russia, Germany and Austria- Hungary. However, Russia continues the fight and digs into eastern Poland all the way down to the Moldavia-Ukraine border. Germany hopes to continue its attack in the spring of 1915. Until then, both sides settle in. Russia now knows that if they can't hold the upcoming offensives, the war will be lost by the fall of 1915.

World Report 1914 – Well in Western Europe, all hell had broken out and then closed again within just 5 months. France has surrendered and internally is collapsing. French colonial forces in West Africa and Tunisia refuse to surrender and forces Germany to send troops to fight the rogue French located there. The French Navy is in cahoots about surrendering. Some naval squadrons surrender, while other join up with the British Royal Navy. Britain knows if they want to get of the war however, they must make sure the French Navy surrenders.

Germany is now fighting Japan in the Pacific and knows it can't secure its newly annexed territories it got from France. Britain has let Japan occupy former French Indochina, as this hurts Germany. Japan has secured the Caroline, Marshal and Mariana islands in the Pacific. Germany doesn't concerns itself with that right now and scores victory after victory against Russia. Austria- Hungary has hit a stalemate with Serbia and plans to attack again in the spring of 1915.

Germany plans to hold its own against the Royal Navy and is trying to make peace with Britain. With the fall of France, Britain has no real claim in the fight against Germany.

President Woodrow Wilson is now trying to bring the war in Europe to a close. Even though the United States is still acting isolationist and Woodrow Wilson is trying to make peace, Congress agrees to spend more money for the armed forces. The United States wants to prepare itself against any threat, especially after watching France fall so quickly and Russia taking a pounding/

1914 now comes to a close. The world is looking a lot different now. In a world that changes so rapidly, 1915 may see a great change in the world balance.