AHC: Union and CSA generals for war in 1885

[AceOfSpades]

BtW, which prominent officers are you omitting and why.

I mean, I would give Cleburne an Army command on talent, but I could see his politics or 20+ years in civilian life mean he serves at a lower rank. Giving Hood an Army is mistake.

Longstreet seems obvious.

The cutoff date is 1885. If a general by then is in their sixties, dead, or already in a prominent civilian/political office (governorship, congressional seat), they won’t be in command. I’m more flexible with others.

Longstreet would be the exception as General-in-Chief, and Stonewall Jackson is too valuable to not recall for duty. If Jackson can't manage, I'll have him replaced with William D. Pender.

Edmund Kirby Smith might be requested for militia duty when Vicksburg is threatened.

Hood - may/not be dead if he travels to New Orleans before 1885. In that case, Cleburne will lead in Tennessee, then replaced by Fighting Joe Wheeler.

Wonder if Governor/Professor Chamberlain of Maine would be tempted to come out of retirement and go back to war again... of course from what I've read his legend would have come from the advantage of having written his memoirs in such an erudite manner and because of that certain incident at Little Round Top...

However if Strong Vincent's around, I think he would do well.

Also no commands for John Gibbon or James H. Wilson?

Adelbert Ames would have to make a convincing argument, but it's possible.

Gibbon will be in the east (and a strong contender for Army command) and Wilson will be under McPherson.

 

[Elfwine]

Chamberlain did have more than Little Round Top to his name as far as glory, depending on how this went vs. OTL. It might not be just Ames vouching for him.

 

[kaijudirector]

Also, if Stonewall Jackson and McPherson's still around, I wonder if those "what could have been had they not been KIA" generals could make a difference. I doubt Albert Sidney Johnston is still around. How about Phillip Kearny, Jesse Reno, or Turner Ashby?

And forgot about him, but I can see John Mosby as the head of intelligence operations for the CSA.

 

[Nytram01]

I think at the outset of this 1885 war there is little reason to believe anyone other than Joseph E. Johnston would be General-in-Chief of the Confederate Army. He would have been 78 years old in that year and, by that point, one of only two surviving members of the original Five Full Generals of the Confederate States - Samuel Cooper dying in 1876, Sidney Johnston dying of his wounds at Shiloh, and Robert E. Lee being struck down by a stroke in 1870, leaving only Beauregard as the other survivor - and Johnston would have the position on seniority if nothing else. At 78 he'd likely be too old to take the field, but he was a spritely old man in very good health and he might attempt to take a field command, so that cant be ruled out.

P.G.T. Beauregard would be 66 in this year and a likely candidate for a field command. Edmund Kirby Smith would be an ideal candidate for a field command too, as he would be 60 at the time this proposed conflict broke out, and would be the most senior ranking officer other than Johnston and Beauregard still potentitally in the service.

Braxton Bragg died in 1876 of some brain or heart failure so that rules him out, but one could handwave away the yellow fever that struck down John Bell Hood in 1879 if he stayed with the Army in a victorious south - Hood would be 53 years old in 1885.

 

[AceOfSpades]

I think at the outset of this 1885 war there is little reason to believe anyone other than Joseph E. Johnston would be General-in-Chief of the Confederate Army.

Where would figures such as Longstreet and Jackson be assigned then? Would they still be with the ANV? Somewhere else? Retired?

Bit of a tangential question: Leaving aside the technological advancements by this time, would the Union and Confederate war strategies be radically different from 1861? Would the CSA adopt a more defensive strategy?

 

[kaijudirector]

Where would figures such as Longstreet and Jackson be assigned then? Would they still be with the ANV? Somewhere else? Retired?

Bit of a tangential question: Leaving aside the technological advancements by this time, would the Union and Confederate war strategies be radically different from 1861? Would the CSA adopt a more defensive strategy?

Maybe chief of staff for Longstreet and a major command for Stonewall?

 

[Nytram01]

Where would figures such as Longstreet and Jackson be assigned then? Would they still be with the ANV? Somewhere else? Retired?

Bit of a tangential question: Leaving aside the technological advancements by this time, would the Union and Confederate war strategies be radically different from 1861? Would the CSA adopt a more defensive strategy?

I would imagine the Confederate Army would be greatly reduced in size during peacetime and they might not even be in the army when war breaks out, or they might be in teaching role in the new Confederare Military Academy - since Southern boys could no longer attend West Point - or maybe they might be in a Staff position as Adjutant General or Quartermaster General. Of course they could have their own command at the Mexican or American border or along the coast. There's no doubt they would be given a prominent position in field command once war is declared but they could have ended up anywhere during peacetime.

I think the strategy depends on the circumstances of the war. I'd assume, as you've classed it as an "American War of Reunification" it's the North seeking to bring the South back rather than the South seeking to tear away parts of the North, in which case I would imagine the North would be the aggressors and the South would, once again, be fighting on the defensive.

 

[Elfwine]

A serious question that comes up on that actually (the Confederate army's size): The Confederacy planned to have a regular army. Almost all the actual armed forces were technically Provisional Army - and I think strictly speaking Longstreet and Jackson, along the vast majority of other generals, only had PACS ranks (though there's no reason they couldn't have a commission in the regular army as far as writing alternate history, it's something to keep in mind for the question).

So what is the state of the Confederate regular army in 1885? Is the Confederacy trying the same thing as it did twenty years ago? Maintaining a regular army of tens if not hundreds of thousands is not going to be easy to finance, but that doesn't mean there's essentially no core of regulars at all.

 

[Nytram01]

A serious question that comes up on that actually (the Confederate army's size): The Confederacy planned to have a regular army. Almost all the actual armed forces were technically Provisional Army - and I think strictly speaking Longstreet and Jackson, along the vast majority of other generals, only had PACS ranks (though there's no reason they couldn't have a commission in the regular army as far as writing alternate history, it's something to keep in mind for the question).

So what is the state of the Confederate regular army in 1885? Is the Confederacy trying the same thing as it did twenty years ago? Maintaining a regular army of tens if not hundreds of thousands is not going to be easy to finance, but that doesn't mean there's essentially no core of regulars at all.

I admit I was going on the idea that the CS Army would be similar to the pre-War US army where they have sort Cavalry and Infantry units scattered around different states rather than consolidated as whole armies, but it might, perhaps, be a bit more difficult to do that in the Confederacy as they were a more loose union of States with a much weaker central government by design.

It might be the case that each individual state maintained its own small contingent of professional forces while the Confederate Government had a standing army of professional soldiers numbering 20,000 men at most - a number chosen because the pre-Civil War US Army was around 16-17,000 men - with the idea that in wartime this would provide the professional core of the military which would be suplemented by the volunteer militia.

In that scenario you'd likely see people being appointed commanders of State forces without really having any authority outside of their own States - for more specific reference, I'm picturing former President Jefferson Davis being appointed General of the Army of Mississippi but not having a rank within the Armies of the Confederacy or, at best, being seen as the equivilent of a Colonel - which, of course, would be an administrative migraine of epic proportions when it came to a national conflict with one of it's neighbours but States Rights and all that.

 

[Elfwine]

It's an idea that make sense - I know that the original intent was something along the lines you're talking about, but I wonder if the post-war Confederacy of this timeline attempts that, or feels it needs a larger army badly enough to do differently.

"We won without having a large regular army." is a thing, after all, whether we judge their decision ill advised or not.