Earlier today, I came across this video about the Hartford Whalers - an NHL team that played there from the late 70’s until 1997, when they left and became the Carolina Hurricanes. This video talks about their downfall before they relocated, which makes me wonder: if you were the owner of the Whalers, what might you have done to keep the team in Hartford? Any hockey fans here who could offer some sort of insight?
AHC: Save the Hartford Whalers
- Thread starter ILPD45
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Earlier today, I came across this video about the Hartford Whalers - an NHL team that played there from the late 70’s until 1997, when they left and became the Carolina Hurricanes. This video talks about their downfall before they relocated, which makes me wonder: if you were the owner of the Whalers, what might you have done to keep the team in Hartford? Any hockey fans here who could offer some sort of insight?
A new arena. It took years for the Hurricanes to actually draw more fans in a season than the Whalers - but the Whalers played in a 13,000 seat hockey rink in a mall.
They made more money playing in front of 9,000 fans in Carolina where they had a captive market for concessions, parking, merchandise, etc etc.
If the Whale can get an arena deal, they may never have left
Nah really not possible. I'm as big a defender of small market teams as any NHL watcher, i own a Whalers Jersey and I'm chomping at the bit to see the Nordiques revived (own a jersey of theirs, too) but the Whalers were never going to last.
Hartford is just too small and it's sandwiched between the gargantuan Boston and NY media markets. It's good as an AHL town but pro sports really doesn't belong there
Hartford is just too small and it's sandwiched between the gargantuan Boston and NY media markets. It's good as an AHL town but pro sports really doesn't belong there
I don't think having a larger arena would help. Probably the opposite just because they had such poor attendance.
Bad attendance, a bad market, a bad team, a bad arena.... it was never gonna work out
They didn't have bad attendance. They sold out the Civic Centre for years, and as mentioned, had better attendance than the Hurricanes have had almost every year since.
This misunderstands hockey markets.
For example, Atlanta, with 6 million people, is not a "bigger market" than Winnipeg, with 800,000 people, when it comes to hockey.
Don't ask how many people in a city, ask how many hockey fans. The Hartford metro area alone is larger than New Orleans (which supports two pro sports teams in larger leagues) and around the same size as Buffalo
They were near last for most of the years and their valuation was always really small. This isn't even mentioning how they couldn't meet a management request for increased season ticket numbers (though there was some fuckiness with the pricing) and the money was not there for a new arena. You'd need to pull some SERIOUS strings to keep them in Hartford, and even then the geographical pull would be towards elsewhere.
Yes but New Orleans stands largely alone and it's *media market,* the really valuable stat, has wider pull than Hartford, a city hemmed in by the aforementioned NY and Boston. It isn't a useful place to have a pro team when most gravitate towards their larger neighbors anyway. The money just isn't there.
Also Winnipeg is absolutely a small market team, even if hockey has been more successful there than Atlanta. By most reckonings it's the smallest market in NA pro sports. Québec City would be even smaller and run into more serious media issues because of the linguistic problem. But like I said, I'm desperate to see a Nordiques revival.
The capacity of the arena was 15,223. The average attendance this season was 14,574. More seats (when you already have 15,000) means more less expensive seats (making the team more accessible to fans), but also, as mentioned, having control over the arena means earning more money per fan from concessions and merchandise, as well as revenue streams they didn't have before at all, such as parking.
Vancouver, LA and Minnesota spent most of the 80s near the bottom in attendance. Therefore, Vancouver, LA and Minnesota cannot support hockey teams. Nothing to do with the disaster-case the organizations were. s/
The capacity of the arena was 15,223. The average attendance this season was 14,574. More seats (when you already have 15,000) means more less expensive seats (making the team more accessible to fans), but also, as mentioned, having control over the arena means earning more money per fan from concessions and merchandise, as well as revenue streams they didn't have before at all, such as parking.
Vancouver, LA and Minnesota spent most of the 80s near the bottom in attendance. Therefore, Vancouver, LA and Minnesota cannot support hockey teams. Nothing to do with the disaster-case the organizations were. s/
This isn't a super great argument when Minnesota ended up relocating too, as did the Jets, and the Devils were constantly threatening an exit to Nashville before they got the Prudential Center (good riddance, I say
). The Islanders also nearly moved, and probably would have if it wasn't for their Cup wins, which the NHL is always hesitant to approve a move after. Hell, the Nordiques are always pretty up there for attendance, and they skipped town too.This also obscures the fact that for every year after your chosen year, things were downhill: 4th worst in 88-89 and 89-90, 3rd worst in 90-91 and 91-92, 2nd worst in 92-93, 93-94, and 94-95, 3rd worst again in 95-96 and 96-97, and then off they went to Carolina. Valuation improved and they're basically the only game in town for Raleigh, so it was an easy media market to capture. Sandwiched between NY and Boston, Hartford was not able to stay afloat.
I mean, to return to the premise of the thread, you save the Whalers by finding cash for a new arena from somewhere (an alternate governor, maybe?) and improving roster moves to the point of actually being successful. If Hartford is actually able to capture a cup, they'd probably stick around, at least for a while.
Alternately, if Robert Kraft's briefly-held plan to relocate the Patriots to Hartford out of Foxboro had gone through, you *could* see Hartford morphed into like.... a pan-New England sports haven, of some kind. I think it'd probably require either the Isles or the Devils to relocate, to allow Hartford some reach into the NY market, and maybe a few years of really shitty records from the Bruins.
Alternately, if Robert Kraft's briefly-held plan to relocate the Patriots to Hartford out of Foxboro had gone through, you *could* see Hartford morphed into like.... a pan-New England sports haven, of some kind. I think it'd probably require either the Isles or the Devils to relocate, to allow Hartford some reach into the NY market, and maybe a few years of really shitty records from the Bruins.
Dude this is an alternate history CHALLENGE. I'm not arguing that OTL that Whalers didn't move.This isn't a super great argument when Minnesota ended up relocating too, as did the Jets, and the Devils were constantly threatening an exit to Nashville before they got the Prudential Center (good riddance, I say
This also obscures the fact that for every year after your chosen year, things were downhill: 4th worst in 88-89 and 89-90, 3rd worst in 90-91 and 91-92, 2nd worst in 92-93, 93-94, and 94-95, 3rd worst again in 95-96 and 96-97, and then off they went to Carolina. Valuation improved and they're basically the only game in town for Raleigh, so it was an easy media market to capture. Sandwiched between NY and Boston, Hartford was not able to stay afloat.
(Valuation increased when they moved to Carolina because they OWNED THE ARENA)
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Yes I know, i specifically addressed the challenge. But it's also worth addressing how and why it's really a stretch, plausibility wise
A pressure tactic https://www.si.com/nfl/2017/01/23/nfl-new-england-patriots-abandoned-move-hartford-connecticut
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