AHC: Polish-Lithuanian-Hungarian Commonwealth
- Thread starter USJ
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wolf_brother
Banned
Was there any sort of push for a PLHC?
Isn't the Austrian Empire of the time between the PLC and Hungary? I think they're going to have something to say about this union.
Isn't the Austrian Empire of the time between the PLC and Hungary? I think they're going to have something to say about this union.
Theoretically, yes. King Władysław III (1424-1444) of Jagiellon dynasty was King of Poland, King of Hungary and Grand Duke of Lithuania. If does not dies in the battle of Varna or if he does not break a truce with Ottomans he remains ruler of most of Eastern Europe. How long it lasts, especially after his death, that is a different question...
He was Supreme Duke of Lithuania (as the head of Jagiellon's dynasty). Grand Duke of Lithuania was his brother Kasimir. If King Władysław III didn't die in the battle of Varna, then more likely Poland and Lithuania wouldn't form the personal union.
Good point. However, since we're aiming for PLHC, it may happen so: Władysław III does not die at Varna, successfully keeps Polish and Hungarian throne and defends Hungary against Ottomans. They agree for a truce or even a lasting, while uneasy peace. Then, part of his Hungarian forces supports Poland against the Teutonic Order in 1454. Thirteen Years War happens as IOTL, only hardened in battle Władysław III with his veterans deals with the Order much quicker and easier than Casimir did IOTL. The days of the Teutonic Order in Prussia are over - Władysław, famous as champion of the Christiandom, is in much stronger position and decides to end Teutonic threat once and for all. Whole Prussia is incorporated into Polish kingdom, while the Order is given a choice - they get simply banished from Poland or they can settle on Hungarian-Ottoman border to help defend Christians from the Saracens. Of course Władysław fully intends to keep an eye on them so they wouldn't try to rebuild their power. Anyway, with Ottoman power at their door it would be much harder than against weak and divided Prussia. Some of the Teutonic Knights accept king's terms.
Meanwhile Casimir dies from some ilness, an accident, anything. Lithuanian magnats, still feeling threatened by Moscovia and Tatars, ask Władysław, Supreme Duke and strong ruler, to become their Grand Duke as well. And so we have a personal union between Poland, Hungary and Lithuania. Later it might evolve into Polish-Lithuanian-Hungarian Commonwealth.
Meanwhile Casimir dies from some ilness, an accident, anything. Lithuanian magnats, still feeling threatened by Moscovia and Tatars, ask Władysław, Supreme Duke and strong ruler, to become their Grand Duke as well. And so we have a personal union between Poland, Hungary and Lithuania. Later it might evolve into Polish-Lithuanian-Hungarian Commonwealth.
Isn't the Austrian Empire of the time between the PLC and Hungary? I think they're going to have something to say about this union.
No.
In the time period, Poland and Hungary shared a border along the Carpathian mountains.
No, at that time Lithuania still didn't feel threatened by Moscow, that was rather result of Kasimir's politics when he became King of Poland. That would be against general trend for Lithuanians to have separate Grand Duke, more likely he would be invited to become Władysław's successor, since Poles were more interested in keeping the personal union.
Originally posted by abas
True, but being invited by the Poles is not enough, The Hungarians would have had to agree as well. OTOH If Władysław III had been a good king (and we assume he was), they might have gone for his brother. ITTL Hungary is interested in gaining as many allies against the Ottomans as possible, so they might agree. Hey, some kind of Polish-Hungarian congress (Sejm, Diet, Parliament, whatever) jointly offering Casimir Polish and Hungarian Crown might be a nucleus for future Parliament of the PLHC.
True, but being invited by the Poles is not enough, The Hungarians would have had to agree as well. OTOH If Władysław III had been a good king (and we assume he was), they might have gone for his brother. ITTL Hungary is interested in gaining as many allies against the Ottomans as possible, so they might agree. Hey, some kind of Polish-Hungarian congress (Sejm, Diet, Parliament, whatever) jointly offering Casimir Polish and Hungarian Crown might be a nucleus for future Parliament of the PLHC.
Here is a simplified family tree of the Jagellons. It only includes male line. I hope it can help.
Vladislaus II/Jogaila (ca.1351-1434) Grand Duke of Lithuania (1377-1401) and King of Poland (1386-1399 jure uxoris, 1399-1434 alone)
...1.Vladislaus III of Poland (1424-1444) King of Poland (1434-1444) and Hungary (1440-1444)
...2.Casimir IV (1427-1492) Grand Duke of Lithuania (1440-1492) and King of Poland (1447-1492)
......1.Vladislaus II of Hungary (1456-1516) King of Bohemia (1471-1516) and Hungary (1490-1516)
.........1.Louis II of Hungary (1506-1526) King of Bohemia and Hungary (1516-1526)
......2.John I Albert (1459-1501) King of Poland (1492-1501)
......3.Alexander (1461-1506) Grand Duke of Lithuania (1492-1506) and King of Poland (1501-1506)
......4.Sigismund I (1467-1548) Grand Duke of Lithuania and King of Poland (1506-1548)
.........1.Sigismund II (1520-1572) Grand Duke of Lithuania and King of Poland (1548-1572)
My proposition would be the following one :
Louis II of Hungary isn't killed at Mohacs in 1526. The Hungarians manage to resist the Ottomans and thus Hungary remains independant.
Louis II of Hungary then has a son with his wife, Mary of Habsburg, which he names Vladislaus. Upon Louis II's death, his son will become King Vladislaus III of Hungary.
Then upon Sigismund II of Poland-Lithuania's death, Vladislaus III of Hungary has a good chance of inheriting the throne. Thus, we have Vladislaus IV, Grand Duke of Lithuania, King of Poland and Hungary (as Vladislaus III).
I don't if this very plausible though : I'm not sure the Hungarians can defeat the Ottomans at that point in time. They did push back the Ottomans before, but their opponent wasn't Sulleyman the Magnificient.
Vladislaus II/Jogaila (ca.1351-1434) Grand Duke of Lithuania (1377-1401) and King of Poland (1386-1399 jure uxoris, 1399-1434 alone)
...1.Vladislaus III of Poland (1424-1444) King of Poland (1434-1444) and Hungary (1440-1444)
...2.Casimir IV (1427-1492) Grand Duke of Lithuania (1440-1492) and King of Poland (1447-1492)
......1.Vladislaus II of Hungary (1456-1516) King of Bohemia (1471-1516) and Hungary (1490-1516)
.........1.Louis II of Hungary (1506-1526) King of Bohemia and Hungary (1516-1526)
......2.John I Albert (1459-1501) King of Poland (1492-1501)
......3.Alexander (1461-1506) Grand Duke of Lithuania (1492-1506) and King of Poland (1501-1506)
......4.Sigismund I (1467-1548) Grand Duke of Lithuania and King of Poland (1506-1548)
.........1.Sigismund II (1520-1572) Grand Duke of Lithuania and King of Poland (1548-1572)
My proposition would be the following one :
Louis II of Hungary isn't killed at Mohacs in 1526. The Hungarians manage to resist the Ottomans and thus Hungary remains independant.
Louis II of Hungary then has a son with his wife, Mary of Habsburg, which he names Vladislaus. Upon Louis II's death, his son will become King Vladislaus III of Hungary.
Then upon Sigismund II of Poland-Lithuania's death, Vladislaus III of Hungary has a good chance of inheriting the throne. Thus, we have Vladislaus IV, Grand Duke of Lithuania, King of Poland and Hungary (as Vladislaus III).
I don't if this very plausible though : I'm not sure the Hungarians can defeat the Ottomans at that point in time. They did push back the Ottomans before, but their opponent wasn't Sulleyman the Magnificient.