AHC: More nuclear weapons used in war?

BlairWitch749

Banned
sino-soviet conflict is a candidate

the soviets or us in afgahnistan is not totally outside the realm of possibility

i can't fathom israel using one without it turning into a general exchange between the great powers
 

RamscoopRaider

Donor
Emperor Norton I said:
ITOL, Castro was willing to pull the temple down on his head during the Cuban Missile Crisis, and suggest to Khrushchev that the missiles be launched. Maybe we could have Castro launch off one of the nukes at an American target, and the US retaliate. If there was not a full scale atomic exchange as a result, and it remained simply a regional offense where the US subsequently bombed Cuba into the stone age, then that'd be an incident. Bonus if the US responded with nuclear weapons to Cuban targets.
Click to expand...
Given the state of SAC at the time a full scale exchange is almost a certainty
 

Deleted member 40957

I don't know too much about the Kargil War of 1999, but is there any way it could have degenerated into a nuclear war between India and Pakistan? Both belligerents seemed careful to keep it confined to the Kashmir.
 

MUC

1. Yom Kippur War: The Arabs perform a lot better than in the OTL and Israel is forced to deploy a nuke to stop a breakthrough from happening.

2. First Gulf War: Saddam hits Israel with Scuds carrying chemical warheads. Israel retaliates with nukes.
 

BlairWitch749

Banned
MUC said:
1. Yom Kippur War: The Arabs perform a lot better than in the OTL and Israel is forced to deploy a nuke to stop a breakthrough from happening.

2. First Gulf War: Saddam hits Israel with Scuds carrying chemical warheads. Israel retaliates with nukes.
Click to expand...

Could Israel really drop a nuke during the Kippur war without the Russians coming to shield their clients
 

asnys

BlairWitch749 said:
Could Israel really drop a nuke during the Kippur war without the Russians coming to shield their clients
Click to expand...

I don't know anything about the Arab-Israeli wars, so please correct me if I'm wrong. But wouldn't an Arab victory constitute an existential threat to the Israeli state?
 

Clint

Nukes were not realy considered in 1973. But to take it from one source, it was planned to detonate one in the Negev desert around June 1st/2rd before the six day war. A team of Sayeret Matkal got an order to deliver an object from a base near Dimona, and place it in the middle of no where in the Negev, then leave. An order to abort was given early on June 1st. So if the OP accepts the use of a nuclear bomb for deterence, 1967 is a safer bet then 1973.
 

asnys

Clint said:
Nukes were not realy considered in 1973. But to take it from one source, it was planned to detonate one in the Negev desert around June 1st/2rd before the six day war. A team of Sayeret Matkal got an order to deliver an object from a base near Dimona, and place it in the middle of no where in the Negev, then leave. An order to abort was given early on June 1st. So if the OP accepts the use of a nuclear bomb for deterence, 1967 is a safer bet then 1973.
Click to expand...

Do you have a source for that? I'd like to find out more about this incident.
 

Herzen's love-child

:eek: Me, too. I never heard of that incident. Was it intended as a message in lieu of the Israeli pre-emptive conventional strike of OTL?
 
Last edited:

MerryPrankster

Mac cited a book about the Yom Kippur War that the Israelis were too busy freaking out to even consider launching nukes.

However, if it looked like the Arab armies would invade Israel proper, I imagine that would focus their minds considerably.
 

Clint

Asnys said:
Do you have a source for that? I'd like to find out more about this incident.
Click to expand...

It was an interview in Haaretz a few months ago, but I forgot the guy's name... I'll try and look for it.

Anyway he never actually said nuclear weapons, but it was so heavily implied you could tell what it was. Basically it was the middle of the "anxiety period", the two weeks between the blocking of the straits and the Israeli attack. During this time it was believed the war would drag longer, carry more casualties (IIRC, 10,000 graves were dug for Israeli casualties), and this is after Egypt was using gas in Yemen. The Egyptians pulling troops from Yemen caused a fear that Israel would be faced with chemicle weapons. The detonation was meant to be instead of an Israeli attack, not a part of it.
 

Hyperion

Banned
Clint said:
It was an interview in Haaretz a few months ago, but I forgot the guy's name... I'll try and look for it.

Anyway he never actually said nuclear weapons, but it was so heavily implied you could tell what it was. Basically it was the middle of the "anxiety period", the two weeks between the blocking of the straits and the Israeli attack. During this time it was believed the war would drag longer, carry more casualties (IIRC, 10,000 graves were dug for Israeli casualties), and this is after Egypt was using gas in Yemen. The Egyptians pulling troops from Yemen caused a fear that Israel would be faced with chemicle weapons. The detonation was meant to be instead of an Israeli attack, not a part of it.
Click to expand...

Basically a nuclear test, only this time Israel would admit it was their bomb, and that they likely had at least one or two more besides that.

That could set off some interesting butterflies. Would the other powers in the region really want to provoke Israel as much if they knew for sure that Israel had nuclear weapons?
 

Cylon_Number_14

Check out Drew's "Fear & Loathing" TL for a chillingly plausible series of incidents. Quick recap:

1) Rhodesia / South Africa don't have nukes per se, but use dirty bombs on rebel strongholds (along with chemical and biological weapons...)

2a) The dictator of China drops a nuke on its own city of Kwangsi in order to put down a growing military mutiny.

2b) Feeling forced to show China in no uncertain terms that the international community can not sit by as nuclear weapons are used, the USA and USSR jointly agree to launch a nuclear missile from a US submarine that hits the Chinese primary nuclear research center in Xinjiang.

And God Only Knows what Drew is cooking up for the reader in his sequel TL this fall titled "Rumsfeldia: Fear & Loathing in the Decade of Tears" :eek:
 

Color-Copycat

Agentdark said:
A South African Nuclear weapon is touched off during the Rhodesian Bush War to try to incinerate most of the rebel leadership. I dont know if its plausible, and I dont know crap about that situation, but it would be one hell of a story. Especially as nobody would know immediately were the bomb came from.
Click to expand...

Weird. I had a dream like that last night and painted this in the morning:

sadf_by_colorcopycenter-d58nkgd.png
 
Andre27

Andre27

Banned
TranscendentalMedication said:
With a POD of 1945, your challenge is to avoid a full-scale nuclear exchange, but have at least one incident, post-Hiroshima and Nagasaki, in which a nuclear-armed power uses atomic weapons against an enemy.

*EDIT* More atomic bombs on Japan doesn't count. I should specify it has to be another conflict.
Click to expand...

Unless i am mistaken every country which has nuclear weapons also has a policy that when attacked with WMD (Nuclear, Chemical or Biological) they will respond in kind.

Possible use of Israeli nukes (assuming they exist ^_^ ):
1973 Syria uses Scuds with Chemical warheads against Israeli cities.
1991 Iraq launches Scuds with Chemical warheads.
Considering the standing policy Israel would respond with WMD which in this case would be nuclear weapons.
 

MacCaulay

Banned
Agentdark said:
A South African Nuclear weapon is touched off during the Rhodesian Bush War to try to incinerate most of the rebel leadership. I dont know if its plausible, and I dont know crap about that situation, but it would be one hell of a story. Especially as nobody would know immediately were the bomb came from.
Click to expand...

No. It's not plausible at all. They were operating in Zambia and Mozambique, and for a fair amount of time Mozambique was Portuguese territory (though the control was pretty tenuous). And the SADF didn't have a deliverable weapon or a worthwhile target there anyway.

Honestly, though, South Africa and Israel are the only ones I could ever see using a nuclear weapon because they are the only ones that it could have an effect in a tactical or operational sense. Every other country would pretty much see everything go down the drain quick.

And then there's just my knee-jerk reaction as a writer which says that nuclear weapons are about the laziest story telling device you can pull out of your hat.
 

Riain

Banned
In the leadup to Operation Musketeer Britain conducted 4 nuclear tests, basically tests of the Red Beard and Blue Danube bombs. I think Egypt and others would taken notice of these tests in the political climate of the era.

I've read that South Africa's plan for nukes was to conduct a test in the event of a severe crisis and then call for international help.

In the same vien I could easily see Israel conducting as nuke test in the early days of Yom Kippur, particularly if it had made a turn for the worse. I think both superpowers would quickly intervene to stop nuclear weapons and other WMDs being thrown about.
 

DD951

Another possibility that hasn't been mentioned is that in the early '60s, right when strains were starting to show in the Sino-Soviet relationship, Khrushchev made a backchannel proposal that the US & Soviet Union engage in a joint preventative nuclear strike on the PRC designed to eliminate the Chinese nuclear weapons program- the President at the time (can't recall if it was Kennedy or LBJ) wanted nothing to do with it, & without US participation, the Soviets were unwilling to risk going it alone. However, if whoever was in the White House in a sufficiently close ATL saw things differently....
 

TheNordicBrit

Sino-Soviet War, whilst the Soviets have a good number of men and better technology, the Chinese have more men and still have some half-decent stuff. After the war drags on for a few years the Soviets would use nukes to end the damn thing, or at least hope to.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top
Top