AHC: Independent California?
- Thread starter trekchu
- Start date
Hnau
Banned
I believe it is very possible without a Mexican-American War. Colonists stream in following the Gold Rush, Mexico attempts to assert control on the mining industry, this causes unrest and eventually revolution. You might even have the Reform War start sooner without the MAW, which would make it very easy for Californian revolutionaries to secede. A USA that refused to annex Texas and start a war with Mexico is probably a USA that would be hesitant to absorb California, though there will be interest. By this point the California Republic could be establishing its own national identity, making favorable deals with Britain and France and using gold-rush money to fund the creation of a strong central government.
What is interesting is that an independent California that gains independence through revolutionary activity against Mexico might not include all of OTL US Southwest... the revolutionaries would probably only be able to hold their own in the California Goldfield region. You might see them demand territorially only the land that they have settled as well as the trails that connect them with the USA. They could make a deal with the Mormons in the Great Basin to help support the creation of a new state. Even so, they might draw a border at the Colorado River... the Californians and Mormons aren't going to want OTL Arizona or New Mexico which the Mexicans could probably hold easily.
The idea of the Latter-Day Saints proposing a united front with the Californians could be very interesting... I wonder what kind of government they would consent to cooperating in. They might decide to create their own nation-state if their objectives grow too different from those of California.
What is interesting is that an independent California that gains independence through revolutionary activity against Mexico might not include all of OTL US Southwest... the revolutionaries would probably only be able to hold their own in the California Goldfield region. You might see them demand territorially only the land that they have settled as well as the trails that connect them with the USA. They could make a deal with the Mormons in the Great Basin to help support the creation of a new state. Even so, they might draw a border at the Colorado River... the Californians and Mormons aren't going to want OTL Arizona or New Mexico which the Mexicans could probably hold easily.
The idea of the Latter-Day Saints proposing a united front with the Californians could be very interesting... I wonder what kind of government they would consent to cooperating in. They might decide to create their own nation-state if their objectives grow too different from those of California.
Hnau
Banned
I believe it is very possible without a Mexican-American War. Colonists stream in following the Gold Rush, Mexico attempts to assert control on the mining industry, this causes unrest and eventually revolution. You might even have the Reform War start sooner without the MAW, which would make it very easy for Californian revolutionaries to secede. A USA that refused to annex Texas and start a war with Mexico is probably a USA that would be hesitant to absorb California, though there will be interest. By this point the California Republic could be establishing its own national identity, making favorable deals with Britain and France and using gold-rush money to fund the creation of a strong central government.
What is interesting is that an independent California that gains independence through revolutionary activity against Mexico might not include all of OTL US Southwest... the revolutionaries would probably only be able to hold their own in the California Goldfield region. You might see them demand territorially only the land that they have settled as well as the trails that connect them with the USA. They could make a deal with the Mormons in the Great Basin to help support the creation of a new state. Even so, they might draw a border at the Colorado River... the Californians and Mormons aren't going to want OTL Arizona or New Mexico which the Mexicans could probably hold easily.
The idea of the Latter-Day Saints proposing a united front with the Californians could be very interesting... I wonder what kind of government they would consent to cooperating in. They might decide to create their own nation-state if their objectives grow too different from those of California.
What is interesting is that an independent California that gains independence through revolutionary activity against Mexico might not include all of OTL US Southwest... the revolutionaries would probably only be able to hold their own in the California Goldfield region. You might see them demand territorially only the land that they have settled as well as the trails that connect them with the USA. They could make a deal with the Mormons in the Great Basin to help support the creation of a new state. Even so, they might draw a border at the Colorado River... the Californians and Mormons aren't going to want OTL Arizona or New Mexico which the Mexicans could probably hold easily.
The idea of the Latter-Day Saints proposing a united front with the Californians could be very interesting... I wonder what kind of government they would consent to cooperating in. They might decide to create their own nation-state if their objectives grow too different from those of California.
Hnau
Banned
Unless you go back far enough to get Mexico on a better footing, I think its pretty doubtful that Mexico is going to retain territory in a war with the United States. The US was just too powerful and too desirous of new western territories. I really haven't seen a realistic timeline out there that explains how Mexico would win a 19th century war against the United States... not saying that its impossible but I haven't seen one.
Could you possibly have Spain keep possession of its colonies? Bypass the infighting between the 'Mexicans' and Spanish and you would have a larger population and military force to keep the Americans back, even just for a while. Also if you could also have an earlier gold rush to california, their would be a greater infrastructure in place.
Although the Spanish in control of California and an earlier gold rush aren't mutually exclusive but you would still need to retard the US of A's growth somehow.
Although the Spanish in control of California and an earlier gold rush aren't mutually exclusive but you would still need to retard the US of A's growth somehow.
If you do that, you have to remember that the fledgling Californian republic then has to fight the entire Spanish empire for independence, and the Spanish can afford to pump a lot more men and ships out than Mexico or the USA would. The standard of the soldiers might not be top-notch, but then I somehow doubt that the Californians themselves would be as stunningly successful as the US was during the ARW anyway. It could well be a war that California would lose...