AHC - An ROC aircraft carrier

[varyar]

Your mission, should you choose to accept it, is to have the Republic of China operate an aircraft carrier at some point between 1927 and 2021.

My initial idea is that one of the handful of Japanese aircraft carriers that survived WW2 was transferred into Chinese service after the war. (Maybe the Hōshō, renamed Fengxiang, Qinglong, Longwang or Huanglong?) It escaped to Taiwan in 1949 and was kept in service largely as a symbol of national honor, not being very useful to the ROC's new defense circumstances. It played a small part in the Korean War, patrolling off the east coast of the peninsula and its Avenger complement sinking a pair of North Korean torpedo boats. After the war, the thirty-one year old carrier underwent a major (and expensive) refit and remained in service as the flagship of the ROCN until 1976 when it was decommissioned and scrapped. There would not be another Chinese aircraft carrier until the PLAN commissioned the Shandong (ex-Kaliningrad) in 2011.

But how would you, the reader at home, give the ROC a carrier?

 

[Peg Leg Pom]

But how would you, the reader at home, give the ROC a carrier?

The US has dozens of escort carriers in mothballs following WWII, have the US transfer a couple of the smaller ones as helicopter carriers following the Korean War.

 

[Whiteshore]

Or the ROC decide to purchase a British Light Carrier like India, France, Brazil, Argentina, the Netherlands, or Canada.

 

[CV12Hornet]

A donated escort carrier makes more sense for the ROC's financial situation.

 

[USS_Ward]

The ROC tries to either buy one of the Colossus Class carriers (though that maybe too much of a ship) or one of the numerous USN escort or light carriers. Should be good enough to last into the 60s or 70s. Even longer if the ROC went with a colossus class which historically speaking have had far longer lifespans then they were originally envisioned with.

Granted the 800 lb gorilla next door will probably not be happy with this...

Edit: Colossus is outta the equation till at least the late 70s or 80s when they became available as 2nd hand ships.

 

[Peg Leg Pom]

Or the ROC decide to purchase a British Light Carrier like India, France, Brazil, Argentina, the Netherlands, or Canada.

Britain didn't officially recognise the ROC so they'd have to buy a worn out one being sold for scrap, perhaps the ex-Warrior from Argentina.

 

[jsb]

My initial idea is that one of the handful of Japanese aircraft carriers that survived WW2 was transferred into Chinese service after the war.

But how would you, the reader at home, give the ROC a carrier?

Your mission, should you choose to accept it, is to have the Republic of China operate an aircraft carrier at some point between 1927 and 2021.

The real question is does it need a real air group?

Could they operate an IJN escort CV (Kumano Maru?) that they got postwar, even if only really as troop transport?

Japanese aircraft carrier Kumano Maru - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Small cheap and designed to carry landing craft as well as aircraft and survived to be used for repatriating Japanese Troops post-war so free to be given to ROC in working condition in 46? She could help evacuate the mainland and be kept after that, ending as a museum ship in 2021 due to the historical action she did in evacuation....?

(OK she would be limited to helicopters for much of her service realistically after the initial USN piston fighters run out of usefulness and hours?)

 

[Meordal]

In many sense of the word, the Island of Taiwan itself is an unsinkable aircraft carrier, sitting in the most advantageous location off China’s coastline, where almost all of China’s primary economic centres are within strike distance. Taiwan does not really need an attack carrier for aerial combat against the PRC. It can easily launch its fighters from Taiwan itself...

The ROC Navy never had the financial, man power, manufacturing ability or technological capability to develop an aircraft carrier. It means they will have to buy it abroad from a country ready to risk annoying China by de facto recognizing and arming Taiwan.

They would have to buy one being sold for scrap like PRC did or even attempt to officially build a theme park around it during the hottest era of the Cold War (before the Sino-Soviet Split). It worked in OTL for PRC. I guess it can be attempted with an (escort) carrier from USA, but it will be hard to explain that to UN and harder to do so with Taiwan neighbors due to the local numerous territorial disputes. I won’t even speak of the PRC or Soviet reactions.

Whomever they buy it from, they will need not only to own an aircraft carrier, but a aircraft carrier group with escorting ships and submarines alongside theorizing its strategic and tactical role within their military. They need to acquire the knowledge relative to its maintenance and utilization, which probably exclude a nuclear powered or too modern carrier.

The seller has to provide the know-how and it can’t be done secretly. It’s politically and geopolitically risky and probably a stupid move, even in the name of anticommunism.

 

[Father Maryland]

You'd probably need the KMT to be more competent, less corrupt, and led by someone other then Chiang combined with the Communists somehow fucking up badly and not winning the civil war to the degree they did. Maybe a situation with the KMT more or less holding most of China while the Communists only take Manchuria.

Even then for the ROCs actual needs and resources a carrier would be a waste. Maybe if they manage to gradually improve the economy they could look at something like a small harrier/ chopper carrier by the 70s and 80s.

 

[Whiteshore]

You'd probably need the KMT to be more competent, less corrupt, and led by someone other then Chiang combined with the Communists somehow fucking up badly and not winning the civil war to the degree they did. Maybe a situation with the KMT more or less holding most of China while the Communists only take Manchuria.

Even then for the ROCs actual needs and resources a carrier would be a waste. Maybe if they manage to gradually improve the economy they could look at something like a small harrier/ chopper carrier by the 70s and 80s.

I mean, India bought a British Light Carrier in the late 1950s, so a victorious KMT China wod probably buy a light carrier earlier than the 70s or 80s.

 

[NHBL]

In the timeline I'm working on, Carter didn't withdraw recognition of Nationalist China, which meant that Red China wouldn't exchange ambassadors. There was discussion of Oriskany getting a refit at American expense and going to China as either an aircraft carrier or an amphibious assault ship. The challenges of opperating the ship were going to be a bit much, so it was deferred--but the ship is still available. (US-Soviet relations at the time are better than in OTL, and US-Red China relations not as good.)

 

[La Rouge Beret]

They had exchange officers learning carrier operations during ww2. Have ww2 continue longer and the ROCN will operate a Jeep carrier.

 

[SealTheRealDeal]

Your mission, should you choose to accept it, is to have the Republic of China operate an aircraft carrier at some point between 1927 and 2021.

My initial idea is that one of the handful of Japanese aircraft carriers that survived WW2 was transferred into Chinese service after the war. (Maybe the Hōshō, renamed Fengxiang, Qinglong, Longwang or Huanglong?) It escaped to Taiwan in 1949 and was kept in service largely as a symbol of national honor, not being very useful to the ROC's new defense circumstances. It played a small part in the Korean War, patrolling off the east coast of the peninsula and its Avenger complement sinking a pair of North Korean torpedo boats. After the war, the thirty-one year old carrier underwent a major (and expensive) refit and remained in service as the flagship of the ROCN until 1976 when it was decommissioned and scrapped. There would not be another Chinese aircraft carrier until the PLAN commissioned the Shandong (ex-Kaliningrad) in 2011.

But how would you, the reader at home, give the ROC a carrier?

if the ROC can win the fight for the mainland, then this is a very easy challenge. China would obviously want a carrier sooner or later, and decent relations with the west means picking up WWII surplus is an option.

If not, then a light seaplane tender in the early-mid 30s is the closest I can think of.

 

[varyar]

Building off the idea that the ROC ends up with a pair of American escort carriers (I picked the USS Sicily and USS Saidor more or less at random), what other ships would operate with them? Let's try to keep it limited to ships the Chinese actually had in OTL, but I'm not going to give a firm No to any more American donations (within reason, of course, China's not going to get an Iowa-class or anything here!). I'm not even sure where I'm going with this although I have, as of this moment, ideas of a vignette of the carrier during the Korean War.

 

[Father Maryland]

Building off the idea that the ROC ends up with a pair of American escort carriers (I picked the USS Sicily and USS Saidor more or less at random), what other ships would operate with them? Let's try to keep it limited to ships the Chinese actually had in OTL, but I'm not going to give a firm No to any more American donations (within reason, of course, China's not going to get an Iowa-class or anything here!). I'm not even sure where I'm going with this although I have, as of this moment, ideas of a vignette of the carrier during the Korean War.

Completely different WW2 that involves Japan collapsing into Civil War in the 20s or very early 30's and as such no Japanese invasion or annexation of Manchuria. Chiang manages to stabilize the pile enough to establish dominance over or badly weaken every one of the major warlords and then someone else who's more competent takes over and holds onto power after Chiang gets shot/suddenly dies.

The equivalent of WW2 leaves China largely neutral and profiting before joining the Winning side at the very end/right after getting the gains of victory without paying much of the cost. The Korean war breaks out involving one faction which has China as a member versus another faction in the Korean Peninsula.

 

[Riain]

i like cool toys as much as the next bloke, and carriers are right at the top of the cools toys list, but I have to ask: what the fuc& is Taiwan going to do with an aircraft carrier?

 

[varyar]

i like cool toys as much as the next bloke, and carriers are right at the top of the cools toys list, but I have to ask: what the fuc& is Taiwan going to do with an aircraft carrier?

Well, the original idea was that the ROC gets it right after the war, when it's not just Taiwan. After 1949, there's not much justification for it except national pride, I admit, but sometimes that's enough, especially in a dictatorship.

 

[theg*ddam*hoi2fan]

I mean, India bought a British Light Carrier in the late 1950s, so a victorious KMT China wod probably buy a light carrier earlier than the 70s or 80s.

Oh, for sure. I'd say that an ROC that won the Civil War would go to that same well very quickly indeed.

 

[theg*ddam*hoi2fan]

i like cool toys as much as the next bloke, and carriers are right at the top of the cools toys list, but I have to ask: what the fuc& is Taiwan going to do with an aircraft carrier?

Well, the original idea was that the ROC gets it right after the war, when it's not just Taiwan. After 1949, there's not much justification for it except national pride, I admit, but sometimes that's enough, especially in a dictatorship.

I mean, to be fair...an aircraft carrier would pretty much guarantee Taiwan being secure against invasion up until the PLAAF gets properly modernised.

 

[I want to learn]

If not, then a light seaplane tender in the early-mid 30s is the closest I can think of.

Really out-there alternate history question, but what if the RoC raised a squadron overseas in the 1930s? Sort of like how the Confederates bought warships from Europe for raiding in the American Civil War. Then those ships and crews can be a core of a Chinese naval squadron equipped with Lend-Lease ships during World War 2, eventually including escort carriers which stay with the RoC* throughout the Chinese Civil War.

*or perhaps some of the escort carriers stay with the RoC but others defect to the Communists and there's a battleship Potemkin reenactment but with aircraft carriers.