AHC: All Hasburg realms, incorperated into Austria
- Thread starter USJ
- Start date
Well, technically speaking, "Austria" was used to refer to all of the Habsburg dominions until the demise of the Holy Roman Empire...
Valdemar II
Banned
Joseph II was attempting it, but both died to early and had to deal with to many rebellions(Tyrol, Austrian Netherlands, Hungary and Galicia) in protest against this, universal conscription, German made language of government and his attempt to take over the Catholic Church in his own territories (trying to push major reforms through like clerical marriage*).
But let's change a few things. The 7YW end with Prussian defeat, Austria receive Silesia. We see no Polish partition, and the War of Bavarian Succession end with Austrian Netherlands traded for Bavaria.
This both give Joseph a prestige, while centre the Habsburg possesions. Joseph try to push his reform through again, without Galicia and the Austrian Netherlands there are two less rebellion, Silesia stay loyal, while southen Bavaria join the Tyrol rebellion. But with Austria, Bohemia and Silesia loyal and no need to move the army across Europe, Joseph II beat down the Bavarian-Tyrol and Hungarian revolts. The reforms push through in Austria and Bohemia in Maria Theresa life are spread to all the domains and a common adminstration for it all are created. The Catholic Church properties are taken over by the state, and the Catholic clergy are integrated into the Austrian bureaucracy. All in all we have a state with fewer people than France, but better finances and a much bigger army.
*This make quite a lot sense from a economical and governance perspective, priesthood was a import way of social advancement for gifted peasants. BVut because of the lack of children this wasn't used to lift up a next generation, while in Protestant states, the children of priest often ended up academics or lawyers, important functions for the state.
But let's change a few things. The 7YW end with Prussian defeat, Austria receive Silesia. We see no Polish partition, and the War of Bavarian Succession end with Austrian Netherlands traded for Bavaria.
This both give Joseph a prestige, while centre the Habsburg possesions. Joseph try to push his reform through again, without Galicia and the Austrian Netherlands there are two less rebellion, Silesia stay loyal, while southen Bavaria join the Tyrol rebellion. But with Austria, Bohemia and Silesia loyal and no need to move the army across Europe, Joseph II beat down the Bavarian-Tyrol and Hungarian revolts. The reforms push through in Austria and Bohemia in Maria Theresa life are spread to all the domains and a common adminstration for it all are created. The Catholic Church properties are taken over by the state, and the Catholic clergy are integrated into the Austrian bureaucracy. All in all we have a state with fewer people than France, but better finances and a much bigger army.
*This make quite a lot sense from a economical and governance perspective, priesthood was a import way of social advancement for gifted peasants. BVut because of the lack of children this wasn't used to lift up a next generation, while in Protestant states, the children of priest often ended up academics or lawyers, important functions for the state.
I think Charles V had the most chances, because with him surely the Hasburgs reached their historical apex; in the end he was forced to split his dominions but i try to build a possible TL.
- After Pavia, Charles V decided to invade France from all his states; with Francis I in his hands France crumbled and was put under Imperial occupation. Meanwhile instead to enable the edict of Worms the Emperor decided to open a negotiation with Luther who accepted.
- Soon was discovered the existence of a correspondence between Francis I and Suleiman the Great. the Imperial propaganda proclaimed it was a treason againist the catholic faith and the french king was hanged. Charles V caught the occasion and proclaimed the restoration of France into the HRE, declaring the end of the Oaths of Strassbourg of 842. The main French lords, accepting a partial refeudalization who give them more power, swore loyalty to Charles (who refused to claim the title of King of France). Henry VIII claimed the throne of France, starting to gain secretely support to French minor nobles and generally with every French who didn't accept the new rule.
- The Pope trembled after the annexation of France in the HRE and excommunicated Charles V who in 1527 invaded Papal states and occupy Rome.
- In 1530 Charles V opened the diet of Augusta, where he proclaimed the rebirth of the Western Roman Empire, and declaring Spain, Papal States and Southern Italy under direct imperial rule. Charles obtained a partial revision of the Golden Bull: the Hasburgs will be forever the ruler dynasty of the Empire. It was also proclaimed a commission to reform the Catholic Church leaded by Luther; in exchange the priest decided to renounce to any theological claim. Finally, Charles decided to declare Aachen new capital of the Empire.
- The situation soon deteriorated in England, where Henry VIII proclaimed in 1534 a church schism, imprisonated Catherine of Aragon and married Anne Boleyn. Charles V declared war on England; also Luther support this move.
- In 1535, with the help of a fleet builded from all parts of the Empire, the Imperials invade England. Henry VII was then defeated, imprisoned and hanged with Anne Boleyn, while Catherine was set free. England was declared part of the Empire, with Catherine as regent for the Emperor. It was decided that Catherine's daughter Mary and Charles's son Philip later will be unite in marriage. In a glimp of charity, Charles let Henry and Anne's daughter Elizabeth to grow in his court.
- Meanwhile Suleiman managed to conquered all of Hungary, and envious of the success of Charles he proclaimed the restoration of the Eastern Roman Empire (obliously an Islamic Roman Empire). Because Charles now was more focused to consolidate his enourmous domain, he recognize for now Suleiman's claim waiting for a better occasion.
- Last line: Philip, Mary and Elizabeth grown together, but the crown prince, proclaimed as Caesar from his father who assumed the title of Augustus, seemed more interested to the younger Tudor princess instead of his future wife... how will it ended?
- After Pavia, Charles V decided to invade France from all his states; with Francis I in his hands France crumbled and was put under Imperial occupation. Meanwhile instead to enable the edict of Worms the Emperor decided to open a negotiation with Luther who accepted.
- Soon was discovered the existence of a correspondence between Francis I and Suleiman the Great. the Imperial propaganda proclaimed it was a treason againist the catholic faith and the french king was hanged. Charles V caught the occasion and proclaimed the restoration of France into the HRE, declaring the end of the Oaths of Strassbourg of 842. The main French lords, accepting a partial refeudalization who give them more power, swore loyalty to Charles (who refused to claim the title of King of France). Henry VIII claimed the throne of France, starting to gain secretely support to French minor nobles and generally with every French who didn't accept the new rule.
- The Pope trembled after the annexation of France in the HRE and excommunicated Charles V who in 1527 invaded Papal states and occupy Rome.
- In 1530 Charles V opened the diet of Augusta, where he proclaimed the rebirth of the Western Roman Empire, and declaring Spain, Papal States and Southern Italy under direct imperial rule. Charles obtained a partial revision of the Golden Bull: the Hasburgs will be forever the ruler dynasty of the Empire. It was also proclaimed a commission to reform the Catholic Church leaded by Luther; in exchange the priest decided to renounce to any theological claim. Finally, Charles decided to declare Aachen new capital of the Empire.
- The situation soon deteriorated in England, where Henry VIII proclaimed in 1534 a church schism, imprisonated Catherine of Aragon and married Anne Boleyn. Charles V declared war on England; also Luther support this move.
- In 1535, with the help of a fleet builded from all parts of the Empire, the Imperials invade England. Henry VII was then defeated, imprisoned and hanged with Anne Boleyn, while Catherine was set free. England was declared part of the Empire, with Catherine as regent for the Emperor. It was decided that Catherine's daughter Mary and Charles's son Philip later will be unite in marriage. In a glimp of charity, Charles let Henry and Anne's daughter Elizabeth to grow in his court.
- Meanwhile Suleiman managed to conquered all of Hungary, and envious of the success of Charles he proclaimed the restoration of the Eastern Roman Empire (obliously an Islamic Roman Empire). Because Charles now was more focused to consolidate his enourmous domain, he recognize for now Suleiman's claim waiting for a better occasion.
- Last line: Philip, Mary and Elizabeth grown together, but the crown prince, proclaimed as Caesar from his father who assumed the title of Augustus, seemed more interested to the younger Tudor princess instead of his future wife... how will it ended?
I think Charles V had the most chances, because with him surely the Hasburgs reached their historical apex; in the end he was forced to split his dominions but i try to build a possible TL.
- After Pavia, Charles V decided to invade France from all his states; with Francis I in his hands France crumbled and was put under Imperial occupation. Meanwhile instead to enable the edict of Worms the Emperor decided to open a negotiation with Luther who accepted.
- Soon was discovered the existence of a correspondence between Francis I and Suleiman the Great. the Imperial propaganda proclaimed it was a treason againist the catholic faith and the french king was hanged. Charles V caught the occasion and proclaimed the restoration of France into the HRE, declaring the end of the Oaths of Strassbourg of 842. The main French lords, accepting a partial refeudalization who give them more power, swore loyalty to Charles (who refused to claim the title of King of France). Henry VIII claimed the throne of France, starting to gain secretely support to French minor nobles and generally with every French who didn't accept the new rule.
- The Pope trembled after the annexation of France in the HRE and excommunicated Charles V who in 1527 invaded Papal states and occupy Rome.
- In 1530 Charles V opened the diet of Augusta, where he proclaimed the rebirth of the Western Roman Empire, and declaring Spain, Papal States and Southern Italy under direct imperial rule. Charles obtained a partial revision of the Golden Bull: the Hasburgs will be forever the ruler dynasty of the Empire. It was also proclaimed a commission to reform the Catholic Church leaded by Luther; in exchange the priest decided to renounce to any theological claim. Finally, Charles decided to declare Aachen new capital of the Empire.
- The situation soon deteriorated in England, where Henry VIII proclaimed in 1534 a church schism, imprisonated Catherine of Aragon and married Anne Boleyn. Charles V declared war on England; also Luther support this move.
- In 1535, with the help of a fleet builded from all parts of the Empire, the Imperials invade England. Henry VII was then defeated, imprisoned and hanged with Anne Boleyn, while Catherine was set free. England was declared part of the Empire, with Catherine as regent for the Emperor. It was decided that Catherine's daughter Mary and Charles's son Philip later will be unite in marriage. In a glimp of charity, Charles let Henry and Anne's daughter Elizabeth to grow in his court.
- Meanwhile Suleiman managed to conquered all of Hungary, and envious of the success of Charles he proclaimed the restoration of the Eastern Roman Empire (obliously an Islamic Roman Empire). Because Charles now was more focused to consolidate his enourmous domain, he recognize for now Suleiman's claim waiting for a better occasion.
- Last line: Philip, Mary and Elizabeth grown together, but the crown prince, proclaimed as Caesar from his father who assumed the title of Augustus, seemed more interested to the younger Tudor princess instead of his future wife... how will it ended?
That would be epic
... but i'm not sure about the plausability.
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Well he does rather seem to have acted somewhat like a bull in a china shop in trying to ram so many reforms through in such a short space of time. Funnily enough I've been looking at when the best and latest point in time Austria could be reformed and decided that the reign of Joseph II (and to a lesser extent of Leopold II) was it, but unfortunately you then run into Francis II. All you need to do is have him live longer and change his personality a little or have an influential advisor or two counsel a touch more caution and common sense then you'd be in a much better position I think. If he takes things a bit more slowly so people don't get so worked up and he can keep a lid on possible revolters then a slow but steady rate of change would be best, if the reforms are firmly established and the state is secure then there's much less chance of them being rolled back later like Leopold II was forced to do.
Buy off the Belgians by continuing to centralise the state there but recognise that it's culturally different and that the distance is going to complicate things so allow them a limited autonomy and tailor the government to take into account local historical conditions to allow you to concentrate in the east. Introducing German as the language of government is fine but team it up with allowing local populations to also use their own languages and it would be much better accepted. Many countries today are bilingual and Austrian German can become the lingua franca of the empire. The other major thing you need to do is stop going off on so many harebrained foreign adventures that did nothing but cost you money, prestige, annoy other countries and generally come to nothing. The Austro-Turkish War of 1787–1791 being the perfect example of this. Maybe pick up a few small bits of territory if there's little chance of failure but no foreign adventuring.
Valdemar II
Banned
Good suggestions, but the choice of German as universal adminstrative language had some deeper purposes. First it make centralisationer easier with one language, and the choice of German rather than Latin, which was the adminstrative language, made it possible to get the lower officials with a less extencise education. It's also important to understand where the higher tier of adminstration was recruited. They was usual recruited either among the Austrian aristrocracy or among the imperial knights and lesser princes in the HRE. This was both because these was well educated, but it also served as a way to bind the imperial knights and lesser prince to Austria. This especially important because Austria could use the lesser princes vote in Regensburg and because the Catholic Prince-Bishops was usual recruited among the imperial knightly families*, plus the imperial knights also had votes some votes in Regensburg. By integrate Hungary and shift the adminstrative language to German, it gives the Habsburg lot of new bureaucratic positions they can use to bribe the lesser Princes and the imperial knights. Of course this mean that the Hungarian nobles can't get those positions, which was a significant reason for the Hungarians hostility to the reforms (beside the removal of serfhood), and why the Hungarians pushed for Hungarian as adminstrative language. Of course if the Joseph succed in his reforms, the Hungarian nobility are broken, and Josephs position in the HRE has significant improved.
Just one thing about Francis II, there was several reason he was so reactionary, he got power early, and used the first 23 years of his reign fighting liberal revolutionaries, whom had murdered several of his relatives. He remembered the disaterous progressive reign of his uncle. So it wasn't weird that he turned into such a reactionary. If Joseph and lived longer** are more succesful, Francis will likely stay more openminded (he was quite openminded before his reign).
*Because of the possiblity for such advancement, Catholic knightly families was in a better position than the Protestant ones. This was especially important among the men resulting in a rather weird family structure. A knightly family had often two branches a Catholic and Protestant, if the Catholic branch was in danger of extinction, members of the Protestant branch (which had a higher birth rate thanks to not losing members to the clergy) converted and joined the Catholic branch, interreligeous marrige was common among the knights, and often a deal was made where the sons was raised as Catholics and the daughters as Protestants.
**Joseph died of cold fever (malaria) he got in the campaigns against then Ottomans, Leopold on the other hand was accidental killed by his doctor, as a result of the treatment of his pneumoni (which he got because was in cold Vienna rather than in Italy). Joseph would likely have surved several decades more if not for the malaria, while you could easily get a decade or two out Leopold even with his bad health.
Just one thing about Francis II, there was several reason he was so reactionary, he got power early, and used the first 23 years of his reign fighting liberal revolutionaries, whom had murdered several of his relatives. He remembered the disaterous progressive reign of his uncle. So it wasn't weird that he turned into such a reactionary. If Joseph and lived longer** are more succesful, Francis will likely stay more openminded (he was quite openminded before his reign).
*Because of the possiblity for such advancement, Catholic knightly families was in a better position than the Protestant ones. This was especially important among the men resulting in a rather weird family structure. A knightly family had often two branches a Catholic and Protestant, if the Catholic branch was in danger of extinction, members of the Protestant branch (which had a higher birth rate thanks to not losing members to the clergy) converted and joined the Catholic branch, interreligeous marrige was common among the knights, and often a deal was made where the sons was raised as Catholics and the daughters as Protestants.
**Joseph died of cold fever (malaria) he got in the campaigns against then Ottomans, Leopold on the other hand was accidental killed by his doctor, as a result of the treatment of his pneumoni (which he got because was in cold Vienna rather than in Italy). Joseph would likely have surved several decades more if not for the malaria, while you could easily get a decade or two out Leopold even with his bad health.
Well breaking the Hungarian nobility is always a good thing.
Getting rid of serfdom and forcing them to pay taxes is a good start, either reforming the Hungarian parliament so that it doesn't purposely exclude so many of its citizens or better yet turning it into an effective rubber stamp even more of an improvement. Or is that a step too far do you think?Of course the ultimate Hungary-screw would be to force them to accept Austrian German, get rid of serfdom, force the nobility to pay taxes, turn parliament into a properly democratic institution whilst bringing it under royal influence, and finally split off Transylvania, Croatia-Slavonia, and the Military Frontier from Hungary into their own states. But that's probably asking for just a bit too much.