AH Challenge: The Chinese Emperor Most Likely to Colonize the Americas

AmIndHistoryAuthor

Banned
Need to hear esp from ancient China history enthusiasts. Which emperors would be most likely to try to colonize the Americas?

What do we know about the potential for colonizing attitudes of Chinese emperors from the time periods when China is alleged to have sent expeditions that could have reached the Americas?

Namely:
Hsi and Ho in the 27th century BCE, as recounted in the world's oldest geography text.

Another alleged expedition in the 5th century BCE.

Admiral Zheng He in 1421. (Yes, I'm aware of the evidence against this particular possibility. I'm still curious about the emperor's attitude towards colonizing.)
 

Faeelin

Banned
I actually don't think it's that likely in general. If the Chiense do reach the New World, I think it will only happen thanks to knowledge about European discoveries.
 

AmIndHistoryAuthor

Banned
Actually, it's a virtual certainty that some Chinese did reach the Americas, at least by accident. Ocean currents pull small craft from Asia to the Americas just about every year. At least one tribe, the Karuk of California, have oral history describing meeting Chinese. Early Spanish explorers to CA also reported seeing Chinese junks.

And you still use that outdated eurocentric term "new world"?
 

Faeelin

Banned
AmIndHistoryAuthor said:
Actually, it's a virtual certainty that some Chinese did reach the Americas, at least by accident. Ocean currents pull small craft from Asia to the Americas just about every year. At least one tribe, the Karuk of California, have oral history describing meeting Chinese. Early Spanish explorers to CA also reported seeing Chinese junks.
Click to expand...

Let's see, what's more plausible?

That the Chinese got to America in a significant enough presence where the early Spanish explorers saw junks (Who? Cite? I have never heard this), and yet nobody in China recorded that they were engaging in explorations across an ocean that was far larger than the Pacific?

Or that the Spaniards thought they were junks because that's what they assumed?

And you still use that outdated eurocentric term "new world"?
Click to expand...

Yep.
 

xchen08

AmIndHistoryAuthor said:
Actually, it's a virtual certainty that some Chinese did reach the Americas, at least by accident. Ocean currents pull small craft from Asia to the Americas just about every year. At least one tribe, the Karuk of California, have oral history describing meeting Chinese. Early Spanish explorers to CA also reported seeing Chinese junks.

And you still use that outdated eurocentric term "new world"?
Click to expand...

:rolleyes: I love how this post is perfectly representative of every single post you've ever made here.

As to your actual question, the answer would be none. No Chinese Emperor would be interested in colonizing across the Pacific, it's way too far and with no discernible benefit. The Emperor has more than enough to deal with in the Middle Kingdom. Any colonization, if it occurs, will be a purely private affair.
 

Nikephoros

Banned
I think that is is much more likely that the Inca would have colonized China via Hot Air Balloon.;)

I would have liked to skip the smily, but I don't want to seem like a whack job.
 

AmIndHistoryAuthor

Banned
Faeelin said:
Let's see, what's more plausible?

That the Chinese got to America in a significant enough presence where the early Spanish explorers saw junks (Who? Cite? I have never heard this), and yet nobody in China recorded that they were engaging in explorations across an ocean that was far larger than the Pacific?
Click to expand...

So what's most plausible?

You failing to actually read what I posted.:D

Not just once but repeatedly. Pretty remarkable since I only posted a few sentences.

I said currents pull small craft from Asia off course accidentally all the time all the way to the Americas.

And as to your second claim...

The Chinese did record it. It's in the world's oldest geography text.

So how about someone who actually reads respond? Faelin needs glasses...and what's the point of talking with someone who proudly lives in the 19th century?
 
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LeX

Could you name this "world's oldest geography text?" I'd be interested.

n another note, if some comparatively uncivilized and underpopulated cultures (Europeans) were able to colonize the Americas, I'm not sure why a Chinese emperor would not be able to. The Chinese monarchy often ordered and carried large-scale, slightly insane projects, so a colonization effort isn't so far-fetched. They could start with some small camps and trading posts, and over the next few decades increase activity on the American West Coast. If they landed in Mexico or something they might have issues with the Aztecs.
 

Nikephoros

Banned
LeoXiao said:
Could you name this "world's oldest geography text?" I'd be interested.
Click to expand...

So would I. Not even the most rabid "The Chinese discovered the Americas" believer puts it before Zheng He.

I'm sure some Sumerian geography texts are older than China, at least.

Failing that, there's certainly Herodotus.
 

karl2025

LeoXiao said:
Could you name this "world's oldest geography text?" I'd be interested.

n another note, if some comparatively uncivilized and underpopulated cultures (Europeans) were able to colonize the Americas, I'm not sure why a Chinese emperor would not be able to. The Chinese monarchy often ordered and carried large-scale, slightly insane projects, so a colonization effort isn't so far-fetched. They could start with some small camps and trading posts, and over the next few decades increase activity on the American West Coast. If they landed in Mexico or something they might have issues with the Aztecs.
Click to expand...

The logistics are a little different, the Pacific is quite a bit larger than the Atlantic, but you're right, there's nothing to prevent it outright. They might be interested in trading posts, but I just don't get why they would want to bother with a full fledged colony.
 
MrP

MrP

Banned
Did I wake up in an alternative reality in which Faeelin can be accurately described as an outdated fuddy-duddy? No. Though it would be a terrible shock to the system if I had!
 
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