6th February 1934: What alternatives possible?

[Kammada]

In early 1934 France seemed to be on brink of a right-wing coup. Using such pretexts as corruption scandals in the Government (the Stavisky affair) and the dismission of the popular Prefect of Police Jean Chiappe, who had strong ties with the extreme-right, the rightist anti-republican leagues such as Action Française, Jeunesses Patriotes (Patriotic Youth) and such like have mounted a series of violent demonstrations against the moderate-left cabinet of Daladier which degenerated to rioting with human casualties (see details here).
The historians are still divided on the issue of the rioters' goals. Some mantain the idea of a full-fledged anti-democratic coup, while some argue that the objective was limited to toppling the left-wing government without destruction of the republican constitutional frame (and so these actions were successful, as the cabinet of Daladier was promptly replaced by that of Doumergue).
But what if the riots have grown to a full-scale rebellion? What if the Croix de Feu (right-wing veterans organisation) had not chosen to keep themselves out of the fray? What if Daladier declared state of emergency? What if the post-riots government was tailored more to the tastes of the extreme right (e.g. with Pétain as PM)?

 

[Alayta]

Hey! Just one week ago, I thought the same, but felt not informed enough to start a thread!

An audacious idea for me was a friendship between germanys fascist right wingers and those french right wingers beeing put together by their hate of communism and underlying anti-british attitudes!

 

[Kammada]

An audacious idea for me was a friendship between germanys fascist right wingers and those french right wingers beeing put together by their hate of communism and underlying anti-british attitudes!

No way, I think.
First, the ideologies are too different: heathen-ish Nazis and Catholic fundamentalists which formed the backbone of the Action Francaise. For the AF, the Nazis were, I think, too leftist (because of their 'mutant' egalitarianism, different social policies, even the word 'socialist' in the name of their party).
Second, many French right-wings hated the 'Boche' much more than the 'Perfide Anglais', especially in the Thirties. Even some Vichy dignitaries were (in their heart) pretty much anti-German. BTW, La Rocque himself (the Croix de Feu leader) has been a resistant since 1940 being nonetheless a Marechalist (i.e. he supported Petain personally but had much reserves concerning his policies).
That didn't prevent the Free French from putting him under home arrest after the Liberation.

So, the 'natural allies' of that 'proto-Vichy' France are to be the Falangist Spain and Salazar's Estado Novo. Pre-Anschluss Austria is another possible shot. As for Italy, that's more probable than an alliance with Germany, but less so than the alliances with the aforementioned because of Italian claims on Tunisia and Jibouti.

 

[1940LaSalle]

No way, I think.
First, the ideologies are too different: heathen-ish Nazis and Catholic fundamentalists which formed the backbone of the Action Francaise. For the AF, the Nazis were, I think, too leftist (because of their 'mutant' egalitarianism, different social policies, even the word 'socialist' in the name of their party).
Second, many French right-wings hated the 'Boche' much more than the 'Perfide Anglais', especially in the Thirties. Even some Vichy dignitaries were (in their heart) pretty much anti-German. BTW, La Rocque himself (the Croix de Feu leader) has been a resistant since 1940 being nonetheless a Marechalist (i.e. he supported Petain personally but had much reserves concerning his policies).
That didn't prevent the Free French from putting him under home arrest after the Liberation.

So, the 'natural allies' of that 'proto-Vichy' France are to be the Falangist Spain and Salazar's Estado Novo. Pre-Anschluss Austria is another possible shot. As for Italy, that's more probable than an alliance with Germany, but less so than the alliances with the aforementioned because of Italian claims on Tunisia and Jibouti.

Looks to me like that last paragraph has more of a basis for unity with the other regimes than a basis for disunity--and in turn, a basis for what we'll call (for convenience) a Romance-language quasi-fascist front as a counterweight to the Nazis.

 

[HueyLong]

Read a few books on Fascism in Europe and, I'd have to disagree. While the AF will be opposed to reconciliation with the Germans (they were opposed to many of the other right-wingers too), the Croix-De-Feue (easily the most important) would not be.

French Fascism was odd in that it was internationalist- it believed firmly in a Western Europe under siege by liberals and Socialists and foreign ideas, and that Europe the nation (to borrow a phrase from an English fascist) should unite against Bolshevism and even, Americanism.

It was pro-German and Italian in a few respects.

 

[Kammada]

OK, but there always is some difference between the statements made by opposition and their acts once they come to power. Internationalists or not, they'd hardly take easily the re-militarisation of the Rheinland. The relations between the ultra-right France and Nazi Germany should be at best much the same as the German-Soviet ones during the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact: more of a wary, distrustful collusion than of a real alliance. Don't forget that the notorious 'Rather Hitler than Blum' was but a figure of speech. And even if French fascists were ready for an alliance with Hitler, he was not. It has been proved in 1942 (to the Axis Vichy France with reconstituted army he preferred a weak and formally neutral one).

I see a fork in the Franco-German relations. France might push its appeasement policy even further than IOTL, leaving Germany to invade Poland. But it might take a more hostile stance from the outset (supposing that it was the AF who had the upper hand), opposing to the German re-armament, seeking stronger ties with Italy to cope with German threat, and so on.

 

[Archibald]

Bump! Let's imagine that policemen fail to contain the angry mob and Action française, so they enter the Palais Bourbon and take deputies hostages. Then the french president decide to call de La Rocque to the rescue, and the croix de feu fight along soldiers and policemen to regain control of the french parliament. When fighting stop both parliament, governement and action française are crippled and decimated. They have no credibility at all. This let De La Rocque in a strong position. Then what happen is something similar to the 1958 De Gaulle --legal coup-- which gave birth to the fifth republic. So we have a 4th republic under rule of De la Rocque. The guy doesn't turn fascist (he was aparently not extremist at all) and try to build a new democratic regime, eliminating third republic well-known weaknesses. Things can be very different in 1940, particularly if De la Rocque let its chance to De Gaulle...

 

[Wendell]

France, after coming under fascistic control, joins the Axis Powers.

 

[Faeelin]

France, after coming under fascistic control, joins the Axis Powers.

One of the arguments in favor of fascism was that France needed a Fascist organization to defeat Germany. So, I don't see why this would be so.

 

[Faeelin]

Anyway, I just skimmed a book on French fascism over my lunch break, and he makes an interesting case that Fascism was hindered in France by its association with Germany; but far more importantly, that a Fascist coup was more likely in the day sof the Popular Front.

Tie it into a Spanish Intervention, and who knows?

It's still unliekely, though; France has advantages over Germany and Italy in terms of propping up democracy.

 

[HJ Tulp]

Bump! Let's imagine that policemen fail to contain the angry mob and Action française, so they enter the Palais Bourbon and take deputies hostages. Then the french president decide to call de La Rocque to the rescue, and the croix de feu fight along soldiers and policemen to regain control of the french parliament. When fighting stop both parliament, governement and action française are crippled and decimated. They have no credibility at all. This let De La Rocque in a strong position. Then what happen is something similar to the 1958 De Gaulle --legal coup-- which gave birth to the fifth republic. So we have a 4th republic under rule of De la Rocque. The guy doesn't turn fascist (he was aparently not extremist at all) and try to build a new democratic regime, eliminating third republic well-known weaknesses. Things can be very different in 1940, particularly if De la Rocque let its chance to De Gaulle...

There is a very well written AAR on this scenario on the Paradox Entertainment forum. http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?t=275435

 

[Faeelin]

Wont happen- if you see in Mein Kampf (a truly awfully written and boring book) Hitler expresses pure vitriol against the French in the first few chapters. He would very likely invade anyway, or at the very least prevent cordial relations.....

I dunno. He could be doctrinally flexible when the need arose. Anyway, I withdraw my claim that they'd necessarily oppose Germany; they might not, if their OTL statements are a guide...